Sacrilege Against the Holy Eucharist!

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The truly sad thing is that people like misericordie only hurt the TLM movement. Nobody wants to be around people who feel that they are the judge and jury of who is REAL Catholic, who is a REAL priest, a REAL bishop etc. except those who feel that they are the arbiter of these things also. (Before you jump all over me, these can be found in other threads). They can’t just say they like the Traditional Latin Mass. They can’t just talk about how beautiful they think it is or the benefits they gain from it without trashing the normative mass that MANY good priests and now at least one saint has celebrated. Too bad they don’t think they can get people to appreciate the TLM on its merits alone.
 
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bear06:
The truly sad thing is that people like misericordie only hurt the TLM movement. Nobody wants to be around people who feel that they are the judge and jury of who is REAL Catholic, who is a REAL priest, a REAL bishop etc. except those who feel that they are the arbiter of these things also. (Before you jump all over me, these can be found in other threads). They can’t just say they like the Traditional Latin Mass. They can’t just talk about how beautiful they think it is or the benefits they gain from it without trashing the normative mass that MANY good priests and now at least one saint has celebrated. Too bad they don’t think they can get people to appreciate the TLM on its merits alone.
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I sense you seem to be a little on the politically correct side of the coin. Or should I say, the people pleasing side. I don’t understand how stating The Church’s OWN teachings on the Eucharist can hurt TLM “movement” as you state. Truth never hurts anything but UNtruth. You further seem to give blind’s eye to the fact that there is any such thing even called profanation of the Holy Communion. To state that what i formentioned “hurts” anything is like stating that the weather man must not say its going to rain, for fear that feelings may get hurt. PLEASE.
Even the Holy father himself through cardinal Arinze’ and his Curia have made it clear in various Church documents that there is liturgical novelty, and state the CORRECT way of the Mass= what is and is NOT to be done)Redemptionis Sacramentum).
By your very subjective opinion here is really is hard to beleive that you even know the ecclesia dei document or anything regarding the Tridentine Latin Mass.:rolleyes:
Well, since you gave your opinion on what I wrote, or previously wrote, here is mine. By the way, I re-repeat what I have posted before.
 
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bear06:
You might want to read what you write. You might also want to stop deciding who is a real bishop and who is not, who is a real pastor and who is not, who is a real catholic and who is not, etc., etc., etc. There are people who decide this and I’m afraid it ain’t you.
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I take it you never took ecclesiology 101? Well, It may NOT be me, but the Church sure defines that a PRIEST BISHOP etc(Code of Canon Law) are to be in filial union with the Holy father. No priest who calls himself catholic can actually be that, if he establishes what he will choose to obey or disobey. By the way, the same Code of canon law 1983 states that all baptised catholics have the canonical right to express their needs to their priest, bishops etc, and if they are not responding to the laity, the laity have the right to make their concerns known. Oh, yes, you claim the judge is not me, but then you yourself pass your own personal opinion on my character= smells like a double standard here? The Catholic Church in the USA is NOT the so called: “american Church” as if all here is seperate from Rome. Please don’t do like certain secular groups who when the Church states the in your face truth they claim: I have a right to choose, the Vatican and the Pope cannot tell ME what to do.
In the meantime, may I suggest further reading of the New Code of canon Law?
Blessings.:dancing:
 
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Lurch104:
I think it is kind of ironic that misericordie obeys the Magesterium when it suits, “I have the right to attend an INDULT” mass, then trashes other parts. Basically saying the indult for communion on the tongue is in error, the N.O. mass is not reverent, EMHC are somehow blasphemers, etc… What can I say, Misericordie is a model of charity.

The best part is backing up the nasty statements with “I studied Theology at a Jesuit institution” and “don’t read documents from the 70’s”. While St. Ignatius of Loyola is one of my favorite saints, And Father Mitch Pacwa SJ is wonderful, the Jesuits have had a rather bad run for the last 50 years or so. I guess misericordie will be quoting Father Richard McBrien SJ next! What a hoot!

I think I’ll make it easy and obey the entire Magesterium.
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Lurch, (reminds me of a famous 1960’s tv show) i see you DID NOT read what i have posted previously. You state that i critisize “the indult of communion on the tongue.” I am laughing as never before. First point PLEASE state where i say that, secondly Communion on the tongue is NOT an indult(do you know what an indult is?) it is actually THE NORM!! I believe you misquolt often? Hurts credibility, if you quolt someone, make sure it is actually what the person said. I am quite proud of the fact that I state the Church’s NORM Is communion on the tongue, but unfortunately here in the USA the INDULT OF COMMUNION ON THE HAND is around.
No, no! I will never use any of McBrien’s heretical writings, rather my theologian of choice is the onl;y one vatican II and the New Code of Canon Law said is to be preffered above all others!! i.e., Saint Thomas Aquinas. Others here may like McBrian, Kung or other NON catholics, but not I. I like Thomas(ite Tommaso) go to Thomas in Latin. Thomas said in his famous Summa: “may nothing but the consecrated hands of a priest touch the consectrated host. Problem is, many lay members of the church want to do what the priest does in some instances. they want to be “In persona Christi”, Altus Christi”.
Please re-read carefuly, then we can dialogue here.😉
 
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Mysty101:
PS You also said:

This is at best a slanderous, and quite possibly a sinful remark Get the log out of your own eye…
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Well, okay so now you decide that when I state the Church’s teachings on the eucharist, and empasize that there are places that don’t, no secret certain USA dioceses don’t obey the Pope or Vatican dictates, then when I point out (NOTE I NEVER MENTION THIS OR THAT DIOCESE BY NAME: READ CAREFULLY NOW) in general that some are not obedient, you state that i sinned?:whacky: , um, moral theologian?
 
suggestions to moderators (and I think I will post this on S&S forum) can we have some kind of indicator on the envelope in front of each thread when it degenerates into a TM vs NO debate, because for sheer malice and verbal destructiveness you people even have the politics forum beat.
 
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Mysty101:
In your quote --you failed to include what you said–

This statement has no validation or use in this discussion—it is subjective and judgemental

Stick to the facts.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_2_204v.gif
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Again, it seems you cannot use logic to back up your thesis or the thesis of an argument. but rather resort to anger, and excitement to further your subjective liberal views.

There is nothing wrong with my stating that a diocese may be liberal, especially if I actually never name the diocese, and after the fact that there ARE disobedient to the vatican dioceses in the USA, and that this is NO secret. I repeat, according to what you described previously in your posts and Communion, the policies of the pastor and parish you exercise your “ministry” in and that no one corrects those abuses, lead to the conclusion that yuor DIOCESE may be a very liberal and disobedient to the VATICAN diocese.
 
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misericordie:
I sense you seem to be a little on the politically correct side of the coin. Or should I say, the people pleasing side. I don’t understand how stating The Church’s OWN teachings on the Eucharist can hurt TLM “movement” as you state. Truth never hurts anything but UNtruth. You further seem to give blind’s eye to the fact that there is any such thing even called profanation of the Holy Communion. To state that what i formentioned “hurts” anything is like stating that the weather man must not say its going to rain, for fear that feelings may get hurt. PLEASE.
Even the Holy father himself through cardinal Arinze’ and his Curia have made it clear in various Church documents that there is liturgical novelty, and state the CORRECT way of the Mass= what is and is NOT to be done)Redemptionis Sacramentum).
By your very subjective opinion here is really is hard to beleive that you even know the ecclesia dei document or anything regarding the Tridentine Latin Mass.:rolleyes:
Well, since you gave your opinion on what I wrote, or previously wrote, here is mine. By the way, I re-repeat what I have posted before.
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Where did I say anything about you stating the truths of the Church? I spoke of how you think you are Pope misericordie and get to decide who is Catholic, a bishop or a priest. Nothing subjective about it. I, for one, would like to see Ecclesia Dei applied in the way the Pope intended. Too bad people like you are driving people away and turning people off to the TLM.
 
puzzleannie said:
**I am probably stating the obvious, but eliminating communion in the hand would be a great start. **

Last summer, two children about 7 or 8 were the last ones in the communion line, took the host, and walked back carrying it in their hands. The deacon did not notice since he had already turned back to the altar. I followed them to the back of church and explained gently that the were holding Jesus and they must consume the host. They looked at me like I was crazy, but complied. Since they were strangers I have no way of knowing if they had made their first communion, and could not in justice just take it away from them. I spoke to the parents, who were waiting outside, and asked if the children had made first communion, but they said something in a foreign language (not Spanish) and hustled the kids away. I went to the deacon and explained what happened (the visiting priest had already left by this time). He said I was right, and that a child that young could not profane the Eucharist by receiving, even if they had not been prepared, and I possibly prevented an abuse. Comments?
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It wouldn’t make a bit of difference. I remember as a child I would make my mouth as dry as possible before receiving communion so I could pull the still dry host out of my mouth and look at it once I was back in the pews before consumingit once and for all. I did this a few times before my parents noticed…
 
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misericordie:
Is your parish Catholic? Does not seem so. Transfering to the “bowl” is a priest’s job. Well, to each his own, one more reason why i ONLY go to the Latin Tridentine Mass of INDULT!
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Actually I would say most ciboriums are filled with un-consecrated hosts in the sacristy by sacristans or other lay assistants – even at tridentine Masses.
 
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misericordie:
First point PLEASE state where i say that, secondly Communion on the tongue is NOT an indult(do you know what an indult is?) it is actually THE NORM!! I believe you misquolt often? Hurts credibility, if you quolt someone, make sure it is actually what the person said. I am quite proud of the fact that I state the Church’s NORM Is communion on the tongue, but unfortunately here in the USA the INDULT OF COMMUNION ON THE HAND is around.
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Indult: permission granted by the pontiff to deviate from the norm of the church…
I’m sorry, I mistyped, I often think quicker than I type, the point was still there in context if you would have looked…however, you still never addressed the point of my post. You are against the indult of communion in the hand, but are for the TLM indult. Cake and eat it too? Remember the norm of the Church is the N.O. mass and the indult for TLM.

I personally prefer communion on the tongue, and would love to attend a TLM mass (difficult to attend in my area). I also am not happy with some of the abuses in the church, the laity and clergy who misinterpret VII really upset me. I was absolutely thrilled when RS was recently released. That said, I obey the Magesterium both when it suits me and when it does not.
 
The Missa Normativa of you diocese is the Novus Ordo Rite. You can’t say that the NO Mass is the normative rite for the Church becuase say the Eastern Catholics, or Milan which has its own Rite the Ambrosian Rite.
 
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Lurch104:
I think I’ll make it easy and obey the entire Magesterium.
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THen you must read all the documents of the Magisterium of the last 200 years not just the last 20 years of Documents.
 
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katolik:
THen you must read all the documents of the Magisterium of the last 200 years not just the last 20 years of Documents.
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So you believe the Church documents of the last 20 years are in conflict with the previous 200 years? (Yes, this is rhetorical or why would he ask it!) Ahhhhhh, the Jansenists are back!
 
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bear06:
Where did I say anything about you stating the truths of the Church? I spoke of how you think you are Pope misericordie and get to decide who is Catholic, a bishop or a priest. Nothing subjective about it. I, for one, would like to see Ecclesia Dei applied in the way the Pope intended. Too bad people like you are driving people away and turning people off to the TLM.
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Ha, ha, now you are projecting your inner fears over on to me, please. Now you state that “I think I am pope” Well, I bet you cannot find ONE actual time when I actually said that. Bad argumentation, I recommend not only Composition 101, but logic 101 and effective ecclesiology 101. Please back up your statements don’t just throw subjective comments up in the air which no one takes seriously in any adult conversation. Though I admitt, I would love to be pope though, now that YOU mention it.
 
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Lurch104:
Indult: permission granted by the pontiff to deviate from the norm of the church…
I’m sorry, I mistyped, I often think quicker than I type, the point was still there in context if you would have looked…however, you still never addressed the point of my post. You are against the indult of communion in the hand, but are for the TLM indult. Cake and eat it too? Remember the norm of the Church is the N.O. mass and the indult for TLM.

I personally prefer communion on the tongue, and would love to attend a TLM mass (difficult to attend in my area). I also am not happy with some of the abuses in the church, the laity and clergy who misinterpret VII really upset me. I was absolutely thrilled when RS was recently released. That said, I obey the Magesterium both when it suits me and when it does not.
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Please do not put the Tridentine Latin Mass on the same scale with Coomunion on the hand. For one, the CODIFIED Mass of Saint Pius V(the Tridentine Latin Mass) was offered for more than 700 years(still is thanks to Pope John Paul II), whereas a 1970’s novelty during the feminist kumbayah era injected from the the protestant “church” communion in the hand for Catholics, BY A WEARY BUT EXPERIMENTAL TEMPORARY thing called “communion in the hand”(Pope Paul VI personally did not want to originally grant that). PLEASE do not say as is the common very left wing agenda that: “well, that’s the way it was done in the early Church.” That would be like saying that once one is an adult, one should go back to diapers. The Church matured, saw many abuses (to the point where St. Paul mentions profanation of the eucharist and the results of that) and later taught as Thomas Aquinas: “only the CONSECRATED hands of a priest are to touch the consecrated species.” EXPERIENCE TODAY still shows that more than ever before there are MORE profanations against the hosts than ever before. I remember seeing a young girl recieve communion on her hand, (while laughing back to the pew, and stopping to chat with her friend, she wiped her hands as in disgust (as if she just touched something filthy) then wiped her hands on her pants, went to the pew, then popped a stick of gum in her mouth. This was the same parish the pastor told me he found four hosts in one week thrown under the pew mixed with bubble gum.
 
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katolik:
The Missa Normativa of you diocese is the Novus Ordo Rite. You can’t say that the NO Mass is the normative rite for the Church becuase say the Eastern Catholics, or Milan which has its own Rite the Ambrosian Rite.
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AMEN!!! Katolik! Finally, a well read Catholic. Good answer.
 
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misericordie:
Ha, ha, now you are projecting your inner fears over on to me, please. Now you state that “I think I am pope” Well, I bet you cannot find ONE actual time when I actually said that. Bad argumentation, I recommend not only Composition 101, but logic 101 and effective ecclesiology 101. Please back up your statements don’t just throw subjective comments up in the air which no one takes seriously in any adult conversation. Though I admitt, I would love to be pope though, now that YOU mention it.
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Oh now, a little sarcasm is not allowed? If you want to see where misericordie has decides who is a REAL Catholic, REAL priest or REAL bishop (and I thought this was the Popes decision!) just go search on all of his posts. This will pop up once or twice.
 
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