Sacrosanctum Concilium

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TantumErgo90

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I have heard that the TLM must be celebrated according to the prinicples set out by Sacrosanctum Concilium. I thought that the SC had a means and end. The means were the vernacular and change in rite, but the end was that the people may know more about the mass and attend it with more devotion. Therefore, if the ends were fulfilled before the reform of the council, the TLM never needed to be changed, So the Mass of 1962 can be the Mass of Vatican II. Could someone explain how the TLM of 1962 can be celebrated according to Vatican II and reconciled to it. Thank you.
 
It doesn’t need to be changed. Vatican II did not mandate everything being in the vernacular, nor did it ask for the altars to be reordered. AFAIK, the '62 Missal is still congruent with the Council.
 
The approach should be to cite those passages of SC that one believes would conflict with the TLM so we can all examine the (alleged?, potential?, real?) conflict. What exactly happens in the TLM that SC supposedly forbids?

For one thing, I would say be very careful in assuming that what SC calls for must be present in the same way and to the same degree at each and every Mass.
 
So the changes asked for in SC are suggestions on how to change the 1962 missal? So, the books didn’t need to be changed after the council. I think they shouldn’t have been changed, and people should have been educated as to what happens during Mass. Does that sound correct?
 
So the changes asked for in SC are suggestions on how to change the 1962 missal? So, the books didn’t need to be changed after the council. I think they shouldn’t have been changed, and people should have been educated as to what happens during Mass. Does that sound correct?
To me this question is intensely interesting. What exactly were the Council Fathers envisioning the Mass would look like based on SC?
 
From my reading of Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Council Fathers intended, and rightly so, that the faithful should understand and actively participate at Mass. Now, that can certainly be done at the TLM. However, I think they wished, instead of educating the faithful on how this is to be done, they proposed a means to an end. Obviously, the ends are more important than the means. Now to actively participate DOES NOT mean that we need lay lectors, Extraordinary Ministers etc. It means that we must inwardly participate by reading the translation in our missals, and uniting ourselves with the Sacrifice of the Cross. It also means that we must understand what happens at Mass. The reforms were supposed aide ourselves in that. But, they failed. The ends of SC can certainly be fulfilled in the 1962 missal without any changes. That is what we must strive for. There need not be any changes (except for additions of saints and possible new prefaces) to the 1962 books. This is set forth by Summorum Pontificum. Some want a mass like the hybrid of 1965, that is not needed and I believe we don’t want the 1965 hybrid. We want a stable form of Mass, a Mass that the texts and rubrics won’t change, the TLM (the 1962 Missal without any changes). We need to be educated, not change the Mass. SC only proposed a means to an end. The end was good, not the means. NO change in the 1962 Liturgical books was need, is need, or will be needed.
 
This is the Mass envisioned by the Fathers when they passed the Constitution, the Mass of the 1965 Roman Missae promulgated by Pope Paul in 1965.

coreyzelinski.8m.com/1965_Mass/
Maybe, maybe not. I always saw that as a prototype to have something in place until the study commission could see what ultimately was wanted, though it does seem to pretty closely track the guiding language of SC.

I think the conclusions that were come to–that the mix back and forth of vernacular and Latin would largely be too distracting–is probably correct for the bulk of people. But in saying that I am not at all saying that is was necessary to go completely to the vernacular, and in all occasions. I think that in doing so, without proper contingincies for finding a way to make sure that our Latin heritage wouldn’t be completely lost, was probably a pretty big error.

It would be good to at least see some requirement for the use of Latin for certain occasions or during certain seasons. Most of the parishes I have attended have mixed it in, in varying degrees, during Advent and Lent, but I don’t think that is an absolute requirement.

There is no question though that the intent was to have more active participation by the faithful in the prayers and hymns, as well as in the gestures, and that it was perceived that just modifying the TLM wouldn’t accomplish that.

The Pauline Mass isn’t perfect, but when done properly it is every bit as holy and awe-inspiring as the TLM.

Peace,
 
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