Sad and Confused ...

[snowpea]

I am not sure what the OF an EFs and other acronyms mean but I dont like the handshake either, i find it disrupts any connection I may be trying to make with the Lord

attire in church -another issue, I went to my first mass in 20 years a few weeks ago and honestly dont want to return-fill in the blanks I guess, but i was uninspired by what i saw to say the least

thanks I am not new just lapsed and thinking of returning to the CC-maybe

 

[Windfish]

Now, I think I am as Catholic as the next person on this board, but I have hard time understanding how the differences in the liturgy can be so distressing to people.

Sure, I can imagine being peeved, but not enough to be distressed! Please excuse me for any offense!

 

[Monica4316]

I know what you mean…

I prefer the EF also. When I go to the OF, I try to just focus on the Eucharist, and I stay after Mass to offer thanksgiving… I find that helps. Also I try to find the most traditional parish I can.

Sometimes I go to the Tridentine Latin Mass at the oratory… and there are lots of people there on Sunday:thumbsup:

I know how you feel about the Church… I’ve felt this way too. It helped me to read about Pope Benedict and his views on liturgy… I think that the Vatican is working in the right direction now. I think that in a while, all this will normalize and all the abuses that came from a misinterpretation of VII will be fixed. When it gets really difficult, pray for the Church and offer your suffering to God.

I’m sorry if that doesn’t really help… I know what you mean though, sadly the Church is going through difficulties, but it’s still the Church. don’t lose faith in it because of these things, as discouraging as they are.

I also read that there were liturgical problems after every Council… even in the early Church… and VII was a pastoral council, it didn’t define any dogmas.

God bless :hug1:

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I’m sorry you have to struggle with this so painfully, Student09. I think you’re right about the sign of peace being in the wrong place in the OF. I’m grateful that Pope Benedict XVI is working to improve the way Mass is handled and has a strongly traditional appreciation of the liturgy.

Your absorption in prayer during the consecration is beautiful. I’m glad God has blessed you so abundantly. So you’re unable to attend a Tridentine Mass on Sundays?

 

[Onegin]

Just remember, even an OF Mass is still the Mass. If you prefer the EF, that’s fine, too. It is possible to celebrate both forms reverently, and indeed there are many priests who do - they don’t catch attention, sure, but reverent celebration of either form of the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a boon to any parish.

Yes, both are valid Masses but why intentionally deprive yourself if you truly feel more spiritually edified by one?

For myself, I go to the OF when I have to but to me, even though there are still graces to be received, I find myself uptight during the whole thing which is anything but what one should be feeling at Mass. This is why I strive to attend the EF where it is possible to do so. No use intentionally torturing myself with something that feels more like penance than the spiritual experience it should.

 

[Javl]

OF or EF, no matter which you like or dislike. It is not your choice. Your focus should be on Jesus and the clebration of the Eucharist. Personal likes and dislikes should not keep
you from honoring and worshiping HIM!.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem Totus Tuus Domini

 

[Phemie]

I don’t want singing when I’m receiving the Eucharist.

Well there was singing during Communion before Vatican II.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

OF or EF, no matter which you like or dislike. It is not your choice. Your focus should be on Jesus and the clebration of the Eucharist.

Well, we do have a choice these days. Thank you Pope Benedict!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I’m confused. Weren’t people better educated and more literate - on the whole - in the 20th century than in the preceding centuries? And they could read missals? What specifically about the 20th century made people feel excluded from the Mass and that they didn’t understand it?

Excellent point. Supposedly we have progressed
I think that many things in the last century went down to the lowest common denominator and towards banality. Look at architecture, art, levels of education in schools and at universities, philosophy, popular culture, etc. Perhaps the church was a victim of that as well - tried very hard to fit with secular standards in order to be in step with the times. It has achieved that indeed

I’m always amused by ‘arguments’ that it is difficult to follow the Mass in Latin. I mean, most people know how to read and there should be no problem with reading the missal. I think it’s just a question of laziness.

 

[Student09]

So you’re unable to attend a Tridentine Mass on Sundays?

I’m grateful, too, to Pope Benedict. I even heard he was thinking of moving the sign of peace but I don’t know if that is just a rumor. I do have access to a Tridentine Mass on Sunday, though they don’t have the resources to do a high Mass. As I said, there were about ten people there. Fewer than the daily Masses I attend. But I’m happy that I have that option. I’m still trying to figure out how often to go there and whether I should go back and forth between my parish Sunday Mass and this one or what. I like stability and routine so this is kind of making my head spin.

Do you attend the Tridentine Mass?

 

[Student09]

Your focus should be on Jesus and the celebration of the Eucharist. Personal likes and dislikes should not keep
you from honoring and worshiping HIM!.

Indeed they should not. I think there is a valid question whether one form of the Mass helps us to focus on Jesus *better *and to honor and worship Him more. We are not Manicheans who see spirit as totally independent from matter. We believe that the way we pray - the externals, the gestures, the symbols, the words - effect our minds and hearts and our beliefs. If the OF and EF are equally effective in focusing our hearts and minds on Jesus and giving Him glory and worship, then it is really just a matter of preference. I’m not sure that’s true though.

 

[ljubim]

I feel the exact same way, student09! It’s almost like you’d feel if one of your parents was really sick, almost on the verge of death. For people who love the Church and Our Lord in the Eucharist, it is absolutely painful to see what is happening

I grew up with the OF and the more I see of the TLM the more foreign and banal the OF seems. I’m moving soon which literally solves all of my liturgical issues, short of having a daily TLM. I’ve been looking forward to this forever, and if you can sort of plan out or imagine that nice future where you can be nearby an active EF parish that will give you a lot of hope.

 

[jrs88]

I understand and feel the same way often. I’m 21, and a cradle Catholic. At 17 I started really learning about Catholicism and loving it. This of course led me to discover the EF. Though I attend OF becauseof the difficulty in getting to the EF, I try to find the most traditional Mass possible (and one church is likely going to start regular EF Masses!) I’m discerning a vocation as an active/contemplative sister, and while it greatly decreses options, I think I will only be comfortable in a TLM-only community. Anyway, I think there’s more hope now for it than there has been since Vatican II, what with B16’s Motu Proprio. The seminaries of the ICRSS and FSSP are packed. I’ve heard they have waiting lists. The diocesan seminaries are slightly increasing in vocations, but not near the level of the ICRSS and FSSP. Many youth around my age are discovering Tradition, and so I think it will only improve from here as these young men get through seminary and are ordained, and as the traditional religious orders grow as well.
I often get upset thinking about Vatican II as well - but the Church is led by the Holy Ghost and God’s not going to let it get off track. I think the best thing to do is vote with your feet. Don’t attend irreverent parishes - attend the TLM if you are forunate enough to be able to do so or attend the most reverent OF you can find (which are very beautiful also when done right). keep up hope because things are getting better

 

[Monica4316]

Maybe the new translation of the Mass will help make the Novus Ordo more reverent

I heard it was approved by Rome!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I do have access to a Tridentine Mass on Sunday, though they don’t have the resources to do a high Mass. I’m still trying to figure out how often to go there and whether I should go back and forth between my parish Sunday Mass and this one or what. I like stability and routine so this is kind of making my head spin.

Do you attend the Tridentine Mass?

Perhaps you could go to TLM several sundays in a row. In that way you would establish a little routine. After that you could decide if you want to alternate between the TLM and NO or go to one. That’s what I did for a couple of months after I had discovered the TLM, but soon started attending it regularly.

I personally prefer the Low Mass because I find it more quiet and prayerful.

 

[FightingFat]

I have to chime in and say that it may be worth studying the relevant documents of the Council and understanding what was being taught, you might be suprised at how much was taken out of context. In any case, it is possible to have a wonderful and reverent OF Mass (if unusual). Also the EF was often rushed through and said badly before the changes…The point being EF & OF can be said well or badly. The study of the EF, the prayers and rubrics, should educate and encourage us to pray the OF better, and it should (and I’ve heard it does) do the same for our priests.

 

[Javl]

I have to chime in and say that it may be worth studying the relevant documents of the Council and understanding what was being taught, you might be suprised at how much was taken out of context. In any case, it is possible to have a wonderful and reverent OF Mass (if unusual). Also the EF was often rushed through and said badly before the changes…The point being EF & OF can be said well or badly. The study of the EF, the prayers and rubrics, should educate and encourage us to pray the OF better, and it should (and I’ve heard it does) do the same for our priests.

Of all the EF masses I attended from childhood until the OF was instituted, I have never seen the EF mass celebrated badly or rushed through. Even in summer, without AC, the mass was at least 45 minutes long.

In all honesty, though, I have been to OF masses that have been rushed through or had been celebrated sloppily. And many times, in violation of eclasiastical and canon law, the Eucharist, after consecration, was not distributed by the celebrant or any priest or deacon.

I also find that there is a greater sense of spirituality and respect at an EF mass than there is at an OF mass.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I’m grateful, too, to Pope Benedict. I even heard he was thinking of moving the sign of peace but I don’t know if that is just a rumor. I do have access to a Tridentine Mass on Sunday, though they don’t have the resources to do a high Mass. As I said, there were about ten people there. Fewer than the daily Masses I attend. But I’m happy that I have that option.

I’m glad you have that choice too. I personally recommend you go wherever your union with God is clearest and cleanest.

I’m still trying to figure out how often to go there and whether I should go back and forth between my parish Sunday Mass and this one or what. I like stability and routine so this is kind of making my head spin.

Lol!

God bless you in the decision making .

Do you attend the Tridentine Mass?

No, I’ve never experienced one. What is it like?

 

[Student09]

Perhaps you could go to TLM several sundays in a row. In that way you would establish a little routine. After that you could decide if you want to alternate between the TLM and NO or go to one. That’s what I did for a couple of months after I had discovered the TLM, but soon started attending it regularly.

I personally prefer the Low Mass because I find it more quiet and prayerful.

Yes, I’m leaning more and more towards going several times in a row so that I can get used to the TLM and also get a break from my parish. I actually love my parish but our priest was gone for a while and the visiting priest did some disturbing things.

 

[Student09]

No, I’ve never experienced one. What is it like?

You spend a LOT more time on your knees. I was surprised. There are also full genuflections at phrases referring to the Incarnation - for instance, “Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine: et homo factus est” during the creed (in the OF people are supposed to bow here though few do) and “Et Verbum caro factum est” (and the Word was made flesh" which occurs in the passage from the Gospel of John . The beginning of the Gospel of John is read in Latin at the end of the Mass, every time.)

It’s also much quieter. The laity speak not at all or very little (I understand this can vary somewhat). We said a few brief responses, for instance, during the Kyrie, but I noticed that because of the general mood and because the priest spoke quietly, the laity kind of murmured the responses softly. The atmosphere created by this was - at least for me - more prayerful. There were fewer distractions because the responses were few and quiet, and because the priest was facing the altar rather than the congregation.

It’s more penitential, too. In addition to all the kneeling and genuflections, and striking the breast three times, the Kyrie is longer, there are two Confeitors and the “Lord I am not worthy” is said three times before the people’s communion.

The sound of Latin is beautiful. I could understand parts because I’ve been working on familiarity with the language and memorizing prayers in Latin. But, it was confusing trying to navigate the missal for the first time. I gave up about halfway through and just prayed and listened.