Sad for protestants

[Michael25]

Without being in any way condescending, I would like to just make it noted that this kind of topic is why I was so excited to find such a site to have a religious debate. I was raised Protestant, with no particular denomination, and it used to make me feel as though I had fallen away from my beloved God. After a few years of spiritual journey, I have found that I simply do not believe in any one Christian Church. I believe that any Christian sect that believes Jesus Christ is the Savior, whose members are either converting and receiving Christ or have already done so, and is accepting of others is my home. I have been to a Mormon, Lutheran, United Methodist, Nondenominational, Pentecostal, and the list goes on, church. I have found, based on every observation I have made, that they all seem to embody what I believe to be the central pillar of Christianity itself- the love of God, and the teachings of the Bible (both testaments).

 

[Cat]

To the OP,

I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years, and came into the Catholic Church five years ago.

It would be better strategy, if I may use that term, to approach Protestants by praising the good things in their fellowships rather than mourning the lack of good things.

Evangelicals will respond to this approach, but they will repulse the approach that you used in the OP. They will go on the defensive. And they probably know more about the Bible than you do and will quickly confuse you to no end. The door to any further evangelization will be slammed shut.

But if you concentrate on the good things, they will warm up to you, trust you, admire your faith in Jesus, and possibly even listen to you talk about Catholicism. You will leave the door wide open, and even if you are not the Catholic that the Holy Spirit uses to convince them to take a serious look at Catholicism, the open door will make it easier for the Catholic that the Holy Spirit DOES use to evangelize them.

There are plenty of good things about Protestantism, especially evangelical Protestantism (I’ll admit that I’m biased!).

Yes, they do have a great big family, and many times, that family is friendlier and more sacrificial than many Catholics. I saw many acts of love and charity while I sojourned among the Protestants, acts that would make even Mother Teresa of Calcutta smile in approval.

And yes they do revere their past heroes of the faith, even if they don’t ask these brothers and sisters who have passed on to pray for them.

And yes, they DO have the Bible and are very diligent to study that Bible and memorize it, unlike many Catholics who only take it out once a week during Mass.

You know, a lot of Catholics brag about having the ENTIRE Bible. But I wonder how many of those Catholics have read and studied the Deuterocanonicals, or even know where they are in their Catholic Bibles? One of the first things that I, as a good evangelical Protestant, did when I was studying the Catholic Church was to READ and STUDY these books. (For those Catholics who have read and studied them please forgive my generalization.)

Evangelical Protestants have fantastic (alcohol-free! YAY!) fellowships and socials, good solid schools, beautiful music, a network of foreign and local missionary organizations and parachurch organizations, and well-educated pastors and teachers.

They have Dr. James Dobson, a champion for righteousness in this world. And Rev. Dr. Billy Graham, a man whose preaching has literally brought millions of people all over the world to the foot of the cross. And Corrie ten Boom who lost four members of her family as they helped Jews hide from the Nazis.

OP, I recommend this approach. Study the Chapter in Acts where St. Paul preaches to the people on Mars Hill. He didn’t criticize them for what they lacked, at least, not at first. He started his brilliant sermon by praising them for their religion and their diligence in seeking God.

It’s a good lesson for all of us–build the bridge before you try to make anyone go across it. Maybe if more Catholics built the bridge–Protestants wouldn’t have to SWIM across the Tiber, but instead, we could walk (or run!) across the bridge to Rome!

 

[SpiritMeadow]

No, no, no, it was only because you had the word “****” in it. LOL. Was stupid of me to point that out I guess, but I did notice it.

I’m sure the forum censored what was in quotes, but I’m sure you can figure it out.

I accept your explanation, and consider the matter closed. Have a blessed Holy Week!

 

[Jacob21]

I accept your explanation, and consider the matter closed. Have a blessed Holy Week!

You too my friend! I too did not mean to be condescending in any way! God Bless my Brothers and Sisters in Christ!
Jacob

 

[MrDickerson]

No I cling to GOD and my savior Jesus Christ. I find edification in scripture. I feel sorry for Catholics like you that just don’t get it. ** Jesus exists outside the RCC **and is working miracles everyday. So please don’t feel sad for me as I don’t need your worthless pity. My life has been very blessed by the Lord.

No, you’re wrong. The Catholic Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ–if you have no part of the Church, you have no fellowship with Christ. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church; so Protestants and all non-Catholics are missing the one GREATEST thing–eternal life with God in heaven!

 

[rtibs]

traillius,
I don’t believe it was your intent to be condescending, but…

Lutherans, for example, believe in the communion of Saints, we honor the saints and the BVM, some traditionlist Catholics complain how Novus Ordo is quite similar to the Lutheran divine service. The Lutheran Confession is filled with references to the ECF’s.
We don’t feel denied, and at the same time, pray you are blessed by your communion.

Jon

Maybe what traillius meant by protestants with single fellowship are born-again Christians who do not have church liturgies, not that they need any. Main-stream protestants such as Lutherans, Episcopalians or Presbyterians to my knowledge shun from scriptural or doctrinal arguments with Catholics for the love of Christ who wants to draw everyone to Him. All this labelling of congregations does is dishonor Jesus Christ who does the will of the Father and desires “to lose none of all” that has been given to Him (John 6:39).

 

[O.S.Luke]

All protestants can cling to is their own version of the bible, a single fellowship( for most )
non liturgical services, and a promise of salvation, from their version of the bible, and faith in promises from their version. They don’t have a huge family of believers ( who believe all the same things )saints, Mary, The church fathers(incl. many women ) writings or even the original bible. I am not condemning anyone, that is not my place,. I am just sad for the people who willingly, or out of ignorance, deny themselves all these blessings.

Another grand-sweeping, painted-with-a-large brush, inaccurate generalization of Protestants, brought to you by the Catholic Answers Forum - the Catholic version of Jack Chick! Enjoy!

 

[JonNC]

Another grand-sweeping, painted-with-a-large brush, inaccurate generalization of Protestants, brought to you by the Catholic Answers Forum - the Catholic version of Jack Chick! Enjoy!

A few times I have felt this way, too. But not on this one…

Jon

 

[O.S.Luke]

All protestants can cling to is their own version of the bible, a single fellowship( for most )
non liturgical services, and a promise of salvation, from their version of the bible, and faith in promises from their version. They don’t have a huge family of believers ( who believe all the same things )saints, Mary, The church fathers(incl. many women ) writings or even the original bible. I am not condemning anyone, that is not my place,. I am just sad for the people who willingly, or out of ignorance, deny themselves all these blessings.

Sorry Jon, but I don’t get it. I’ve been Protestant all of my life, participated and led liturgical services, and never thought we had “our” version of a bible or promise of salvation. We believe in the communion of the saints and the Virgin Mary, read the ECF’s and Desert Fathers and Mothers.

I don’t think all Catholics worship Mary nor don’t read the Bible. That would be a sweeping generalization. And it would be an inaccurate one.

 

[MarkBrown]

All protestants can cling to is their own version of the bible, a single fellowship( for most )
non liturgical services, and a promise of salvation, from their version of the bible, and faith in promises from their version. They don’t have a huge family of believers ( who believe all the same things )saints, Mary, The church fathers(incl. many women ) writings or even the original bible. I am not condemning anyone, that is not my place,. I am just sad for the people who willingly, or out of ignorance, deny themselves all these blessings.

I am reluctant to respond to this post for many obvious reasons. One not obvious is I am still sorting out my last experience (past Saturday) in a Roman Catholic Seminary of which I am a student.

I was at once ignorant about catholiticism as you are about protestantism. Unfortunately the above also fits some peopel in the pews sitting next to you every Mass.

Yes you are condemning, people who have to tell people “I am not condemning anyone” say it to cover up the fact they are condemning.

I am in a Roman Catholic seminary. In many classes I am the only non-Roman Catholic. In those classes which have the Bible as a reference or to read, there are numerous approved by the Church versions of the Bible. Which version do you use?

Not every Roman Catholic in the classes holds to the teachings of the Church on Mary, Saints etc etc etc. Many times I am the one defending the traditional teachings of the Church. I find it sad I have to defend the Church from its own members. In our last Christology class, the teacher had us go through the exercise of composing a new creed for the Church to replace the Apostles or Nicene. As the priest in the class said, “the old creeds are an embarrassment”. When I asked him about the Athanasian “most silly creed written”. As the silly creed they came up with embraced gnosticism, Nestorianism, feminist theology, liberation theology. And I was mocked as the fundie for refusing to play the game. And no they were not kidding.

So, traillius, you do not live in a perfect world either. There are catholics in the pew with you every Mass that deviant from the teachings of the church and in some cases reject it.
The longer you stay on this forum board, the more you will find out you have created an Oz for yourself.

If you want to educate yourself on what a protestant believes, talk with a few over a cup of coffee. Then I do believe you will be able to make informed comments about protestantism instead of such a broad statement absent facts.

By the way, I defend the Church from silly protestant arguments also.

Mark
Deacon REC/ACNA

 

[MarkBrown]

To the OP,

I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years, and came into the Catholic Church five years ago.

It would be better strategy, if I may use that term, to approach Protestants by praising the good things in their fellowships rather than mourning the lack of good things.

Evangelicals will respond to this approach, but they will repulse the approach that you used in the OP. They will go on the defensive. And they probably know more about the Bible than you do and will quickly confuse you to no end. The door to any further evangelization will be slammed shut.

But if you concentrate on the good things, they will warm up to you, trust you, admire your faith in Jesus, and possibly even listen to you talk about Catholicism. You will leave the door wide open, and even if you are not the Catholic that the Holy Spirit uses to convince them to take a serious look at Catholicism, the open door will make it easier for the Catholic that the Holy Spirit DOES use to evangelize them.

There are plenty of good things about Protestantism, especially evangelical Protestantism (I’ll admit that I’m biased!).

Yes, they do have a great big family, and many times, that family is friendlier and more sacrificial than many Catholics. I saw many acts of love and charity while I sojourned among the Protestants, acts that would make even Mother Teresa of Calcutta smile in approval.

And yes they do revere their past heroes of the faith, even if they don’t ask these brothers and sisters who have passed on to pray for them.

And yes, they DO have the Bible and are very diligent to study that Bible and memorize it, unlike many Catholics who only take it out once a week during Mass.

You know, a lot of Catholics brag about having the ENTIRE Bible. But I wonder how many of those Catholics have read and studied the Deuterocanonicals, or even know where they are in their Catholic Bibles? One of the first things that I, as a good evangelical Protestant, did when I was studying the Catholic Church was to READ and STUDY these books. (For those Catholics who have read and studied them please forgive my generalization.)

Evangelical Protestants have fantastic (alcohol-free! YAY!) fellowships and socials, good solid schools, beautiful music, a network of foreign and local missionary organizations and parachurch organizations, and well-educated pastors and teachers.

They have Dr. James Dobson, a champion for righteousness in this world. And Rev. Dr. Billy Graham, a man whose preaching has literally brought millions of people all over the world to the foot of the cross. And Corrie ten Boom who lost four members of her family as they helped Jews hide from the Nazis.

OP, I recommend this approach. Study the Chapter in Acts where St. Paul preaches to the people on Mars Hill. He didn’t criticize them for what they lacked, at least, not at first. He started his brilliant sermon by praising them for their religion and their diligence in seeking God.

It’s a good lesson for all of us–build the bridge before you try to make anyone go across it. Maybe if more Catholics built the bridge–Protestants wouldn’t have to SWIM across the Tiber, but instead, we could walk (or run!) across the bridge to Rome!

All I can do is let the old Baptist out and say “AMEN!”

Mark
Deacon REC/ACNA

 

[MarkBrown]

No, you’re wrong. The Catholic Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ–if you have no part of the Church, you have no fellowship with Christ. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church; so Protestants and all non-Catholics are missing the one GREATEST thing–eternal life with God in heaven!

Yet many protestants say the same thing about you?! You do not have Christ, you
are not a church but a cult? They are just as wrong as you are in your comments and belief.

What you have just written excludes non-believers, the Orthodox Christians and the non Roman Catholic Christians. Yet you are the one out of step with Church teachings.
I would suggest you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and get in line with the teachings of the Church to whom you belong.

See, traillius, wait long enough a someone who is a Catholic will come along and blow your OP out of the water.

Mark
Deacon REC/ACNA

 

[JonNC]

Not every Roman Catholic in the classes holds to the teachings of the Church on Mary, Saints etc etc etc. Many times I am the one defending the traditional teachings of the Church. I find it sad I have to defend the Church from its own members. In our last Christology class, the teacher had us go through the exercise of composing a new creed for the Church to replace the Apostles or Nicene. As the priest in the class said, “the old creeds are an embarrassment”. When I asked him about the Athanasian “most silly creed written”. As the silly creed they came up with embraced gnosticism, Nestorianism, feminist theology, liberation theology. And I was mocked as the fundie for refusing to play the game. And no they were not kidding.

By the way, I defend the Church from silly protestant arguments also.

Mark
Deacon REC/ACNA

Mark,
Man! And I thought there was modernist junk coming out of Lutheran seminaries. Well, there is, but this is a revelation.

Jon

 

[Cat]

All I can do is let the old Baptist out and say “AMEN!”

Mark
Deacon REC/ACNA

One thing I forgot to say is that a Christian who uses the “Mars Hill” approach to evangelization will ensure that even if the person never “converts” to their particular church (in my case, the Catholic Church), at least there will still be a friendship there and the common bond of baptism and charitable love for each other.

I know that certain Catholics and many Protestants would say that the “Mars Hill” approach is “compromising.” Many of the fundamentalist Protestant fellowships shun fellowship of any kind with Catholics and other Protestants outside their circle. They would say that by finding “common beliefs” and by encouraging the “supposed Christian” in their “good practices,” that we are diluting the Gospel of Christ and giving the “supposed Christian” a false sense of security. They would say that we should boldly point out the errors in their beliefs and not mince words (kind of like the OP).

Well, that’s not what St. Paul did on Mars Hill. And it’s not what missionaries do today. They seek common ground. They seek to find the good things about a people. In Campus Crusade for Christ, the phrase is used, “EARN the right to share Christ with someone. Be a friend first, a true friend, not just one who is in it looking for a chance to bring them to Christ. Be friends even if they continue to reject Christ.”

It’s up to each believer, of course, which approach to evangelism they will use. I opt for the friendship evangelism model rather than the confrontational model.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi,

I believe a few of you took exception with this statement

"It is always a mistake to start anything with “all” Protestants.

We do not “all” cling to our own version of the bible, any more than you do, though you have many fine biblical exegetes who continue to probe the scriptures for meaning. We both engage in this.

We don’t “all” fail to have non-liturgical services. Many of us have services that some RC’s have confessed they confused for RC masses."

because you thought the person was referring to the generalization, “All Protestants”. In reality, what they were saying was, “All Protestants can cling to is …” meaning in the sense of “the following instances are what they cling to”.

It’s a grammatical thing.

Have a nice day!

 

[Lizziebel]

Hi, SecretBeliever,

You’re right about the use of “all” in the OP. Still, that post did make the statements that Protestants have only their version of the Bible to cling to and that their services are non-liturgical.

Though the “all” may have been misread, the post you quoted did a good job of explaining how and why these are inaccurate generalizations.

May we all come together in Christian love, peace, and unity!

-Lizziebel

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi Lizziebel,

Right, I agree with you about the actual intent–I just felt sort of disheartened that the person might have taken more offense than they might have done, had they not “misread” the “All Protestants have to cling to…” statement, that’s all. I didn’t mean to stir up anything again! God bless your day!

 

[Lizziebel]

SecretBeliever,

Oh, no, you weren’t stirring up anything else!

I totally understand, and hopefully nobody was more upset than would be expected. And likely, any upset would have to do with the generalizations themselves and the intent of the thread. Though to me, the post you quoted seemed more explanatory than upset. So no worries!

All in all, these sorts of threads really are disheartening because of the generalizations made and the potential for upsetting others through these mistaken assumptions, as well as the potential for misreading an already negative post.

Anyway, the wonderful thing about CAF is that there are lots of threads that are filled with charitable and positive discussions! It’s good to see that happening in here in response to the OP.

May God bless your day as well!

 

[MrDickerson]

Yet many protestants say the same thing about you?! You do not have Christ, you
are not a church but a cult? They are just as wrong as you are in your comments and belief.

What you have just written excludes non-believers, the Orthodox Christians and the non Roman Catholic Christians. Yet you are the one out of step with Church teachings.
I would suggest you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and get in line with the teachings of the Church to whom you belong.

See, traillius, wait long enough a someone who is a Catholic will come along and blow your OP out of the water.

Mark
Deacon REC/ACNA

Umm, the Catholic Church IS the exclusive instrument of salvation. And you can believe whatever you want to read into the modernist-influenced “Catechism of the Catholic Church”; I suggest you read anything from the last 2,000 years of Catholicism (Church Fathers, Popes, saints, other catechisms, etc.) and the unanimous, perpetual teaching is that “Outside the Church is no salvation”–Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

 

[traillius]

what some of you are saying is that I am not perfect in every way… * I’m going to cry *
If we were all saint paul, the entire world would be catholic ( or at least christian ) and if we were all jesus, well there would be no need for calvary. I don’t mind being wrong sometimes. Its better than not trying to be right ever.