Sad for protestants

[JonNC]

what some of you are saying is that I am not perfect in every way… * I’m going to cry *
If we were all saint paul, the entire world would be catholic ( or at least christian ) and if we were all jesus, well there would be no need for calvary. I don’t mind being wrong sometimes. Its better than not trying to be right ever.

Hope you don’t think I was harsh.
Jon

 

[traillius]

I have accepted my shortcomings. I am right with God, for I have confessed my sins and been forgiven. There is no condemnation for me, since I am in Christ Jesus.

 

[JonNC]

I have accepted my shortcomings. I am right with God, for I have confessed my sins and been forgiven. There is no condemnation for me, since I am in Christ Jesus.

Then it is irrelevent what others may think. May His peace be with you.

Jon

 

[Lizziebel]

what some of you are saying is that I am not perfect in every way… * I’m going to cry *
If we were all saint paul, the entire world would be catholic ( or at least christian ) and if we were all jesus, well there would be no need for calvary. I don’t mind being wrong sometimes. Its better than not trying to be right ever.

I hope you don’t think I was being harsh, either. It’s just that this thread had generalizations that weren’t accurate and could be hurtful to others. But, none of us are perfect! It is wonderful to confess our sins and become right again with God!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Protestantism makes much more sense than Catholicism.

If this Christian God does exist, I just cannot fathom this God, insisting upon a rule based, patriarchal and institutional means of salvation.

How do you think God would protect the truth?

Do you agree that there is only one truth?

If so, then how do you explain all the contradictions among protestant churches?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

No, you’re wrong. The Catholic Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ–if you have no part of the Church, you have no fellowship with Christ. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church; so Protestants and all non-Catholics are missing the one GREATEST thing–eternal life with God in heaven!

Since your Church does not teach this, you might do well to learn your own faith better. You step into and attempt to speak for God, and no doubt you must know that that is most inappropriate.

 

[Salonika]

All protestants can cling to is their own version of the bible, a single fellowship( for most ) non liturgical services, and a promise of salvation, from their version of the bible, and faith in promises from their version. They don’t have a huge family of believers ( who believe all the same things )saints, Mary, The church fathers(incl. many women ) writings or even the original bible. I am not condemning anyone, that is not my place,. I am just sad for the people who willingly, or out of ignorance, deny themselves all these blessings.

I am sad that this thread has been started, and the way it has gone, at this time when Christians should be concentrating on what unites them not what divides them.

Making broad generalisations about any religion/religious group does not promote debate and discussion but discord.

As I posted on another thread today I think this issues comes down to “We ask all alike to think, but not to think alike”.

Also don’t ignore that personality affects our religious views and how we express them. “High” church services help some people relate to God but not others - and it works the other way round.

 

[MrDickerson]

Since your Church does not teach this, you might do well to learn your own faith better. You step into and attempt to speak for God, and no doubt you must know that that is most inappropriate.

Since when does the Church not teach this? The Catholic Church does not–and cannot–change the gay and goofy Episcopal Church attempts to do, SpiritMeadow.

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)​

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)​

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)​

 

[Michael25]

It is in threads like this that I am reminded so throroughly of the reason that many people distrust us Christians. It is in Christianity that so many people find acceptance and salvation- and yet, it is in our religion that we turn so many people away. Protestants, Catholics, what does it matter? Do we not all believe in a Heaven created by the God Almighty? Are we all not reborn in Jesus Christ the Savior? Surely each denomination believes the other wrong, but ultimately, does Christianity not preach acceptance?

 

[MrDickerson]

It is in threads like this that I am reminded so throroughly of the reason that many people distrust us Christians. It is in Christianity that so many people find acceptance and salvation- and yet, it is in our religion that we turn so many people away. Protestants, Catholics, what does it matter? Do we not all believe in a Heaven created by the God Almighty? Are we all not reborn in Jesus Christ the Savior? Surely each denomination believes the other wrong, but ultimately, does Christianity not preach acceptance?

No, actually the real Christianity preaches exclusivity–“narrow is the gate that leads to life”, “I am THE way, the truth, and the life–no man comes to the Father but through me”; “there is no other name under heaven given among men–other than Jesus Christ–whereby we can be saved”, etc. Christ didn’t found the Catholic Church and shed His blood for her on the cross so that membership could be optional.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Since when does the Church not teach this? The Catholic Church does not–and cannot–change the gay and goofy Episcopal Church attempts to do, SpiritMeadow.

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.​

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Since when does the Church not teach this? The Catholic Church does not–and cannot–change the gay and goofy Episcopal Church attempts to do, SpiritMeadow.

There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)​

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)​

“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)​

Does your church also teach you to call other denominations “goofy”? Your uncharitableness is noted. Apparently you ignore everything from Vatican II forward? You know perfectly well that your church makes no such claims that no one by a RC can be saved. I repeat you are not in agreement with your own church, and what does that say about you?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I am sad that this thread has been started, and the way it has gone, at this time when Christians should be concentrating on what unites them not what divides them.

Making broad generalisations about any religion/religious group does not promote debate and discussion but discord.

As I posted on another thread today I think this issues comes down to “We ask all alike to think, but not to think alike”.

Also don’t ignore that personality affects our religious views and how we express them. “High” church services help some people relate to God but not others - and it works the other way round.

Everything you say is most true. The intent of the OP was clear. I am most sure that such posts are an embarassment to the official RCC since they exhibit no Christian charity whatsoever, but are mere attempts to bash what is presumed a safe target. I guess it wouldn’t be so good to call the Boss names and get fired. This kind of thing is always the way of misplacing anger.

Your point about personalities is very well taken. It is most assuredly true in many many cases. In the end, relating to God is the point I would think.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Does your church also teach you to call other denominations goofy? Your uncharitableness is noted. Apparently you ignore everything from Vatican II forward? You know perfectly well that your church makes no such claims that no one by a RC can be saved. I repeat you are not in agreement with your own church, and what does that say about you?

Opps my phone software broke my post on formatting. I asked the same thing this mornining, but didn’t revist to check my post. Just how far does one have to go before he is said to be protesting against the Church’s leadership anyway? Can you do anything as long as you don’t go to your Bishop and resign?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

It is in threads like this that I am reminded so throroughly of the reason that many people distrust us Christians. It is in Christianity that so many people find acceptance and salvation- and yet, it is in our religion that we turn so many people away. Protestants, Catholics, what does it matter? Do we not all believe in a Heaven created by the God Almighty? Are we all not reborn in Jesus Christ the Savior? Surely each denomination believes the other wrong, but ultimately, does Christianity not preach acceptance?

I would be loathe for anyone thinking of exploring Christianity to come here and read much of this. It has been a continuing shock to me from the first, and I came here a long time RC and was certain I would die one. Instead I find here, a small pack of people who are in intense need for everyone to recognize that they are the only true Christians. How sad, they make Christianity, there is no Christendom, Christ has failed. There is but a small remnant of pure Christians.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I would be loathe for anyone thinking of exploring Christianity to come here and read much of this. It has been a continuing shock to me from the first, and I came here a long time RC and was certain I would die one. Instead I find here, a small pack of people who are in intense need for everyone to recognize that they are the only true Christians. How sad, they make Christianity, there is no Christendom, Christ has failed. There is but a small remnant of pure Christians.

And you are one of them, I presume.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

And you are one of them, I presume.

How absurd. I am no longer RC. It is a small group of RC’s here who wish all the “fake” cafeteria Catholics as they call them to leave their perfect church so they can be pure. They have said this quite openly. They don’t care if the RCC is reduced by 75% to do it. They are the ones who claim they are the only Real Christians.

 

[raumzeitmc2]

I would be loathe for anyone thinking of exploring Christianity to come here and read much of this. It has been a continuing shock to me from the first, and I came here a long time RC and was certain I would die one. Instead I find here, a small pack of people who are in intense need for everyone to recognize that they are the only true Christians. How sad, they make Christianity, there is no Christendom, Christ has failed. There is but a small remnant of pure Christians.

Well, I’ve found many things here, one of which are those who, for whatever reason, seem to have an (intense?) need to exclude, to absolutely exclude, from the realm of possibility, that the Catholic Church may indeed be the very Church which Christ himself founded.

But what does, for example, St. Augustine (to take just one of the holy Fathers), have to say about the Catholic Church?

Let us listen to this great Doctor’s words.

Furthermore, the Catholic Church alone is the body of Christ, of which He is the Head and Saviour of His body. Ephesians 5:23

Outside this body the Holy Spirit gives life to no one seeing that, as the apostle says himself, “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us;” Romans 5:5 but he is not a partaker of the divine love who is the enemy of unity.

Therefore they have not the Holy Ghost who are outside the Church; for it is written of them, “They separate themselves being sensual, having not the Spirit.” Jude 19

But neither does he receive it who is insincerely in the Church, since this is also the intent of what is written: “For the Holy Spirit of discipline will flee deceit.” Wisdom 1:5

If any one, therefore, wishes to receive the Holy Spirit, let him beware of continuing in alienation from the Church, let him beware of entering it in the spirit of dissimulation; or if he has already entered it in such wise, let him beware of persisting in such dissimulation, in order that he may truly and indeed become united with the tree of life.

Augustine, Letter 185:11:50
newadvent.org/fathers/1102185.htm

As for Charity, I think we might all do well to consider these words:

I see and hear daily of you of the clergy preach one against another, teach one contrary to another, inveigh one against another without charity or discretion.… how can the poor souls live in concord when you preachers sow amongst them in your sermons debate and discord: of you they look for light, and you bring them darkness.

Amend these crimes I exhort you … or else ***I whom God hath appointed His Vicar ***and high minister here, will see those divisions extinct…

Although as I say, the spiritual men be in some fault, that charity is not kept amongst you; yet you of the temporality be not clean and unspotted of malice and envy, for you rail on bishops, speak slanderously of priests, and rebuke and taunt preachers, both contrary to good order and Christian fraternity.…

And although you be permitted to read Holy Scripture, and to have the word of God in your mother tongue, you must understand that it is licensed you so to do, only to inform your own conscience, and to instruct your children and family; and not to dispute and make Scripture a railing, and a taunting stock against Priests and preachers as many light persons do.

I am very sorry to know and hear how unreverently that most precious jewel, the Word of God, is disputed, rhymed, sung, and jangled in every alehouse and tavern, contrary to the true meaning and doctrine of the same.

Henry VIII, Last speech to parliament, December 24, 1545.
englishhistory.net/tudor/h8speech.html

*Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, of the Reign of Henry VIII *By Great Britain. Public Record Office, John Sherren Brewer, Robert Henry, vol. XX, part 2, p. 513.
books.google.com/books?id=oBsFAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA4-PA513&dq=%22I+whom+God+has+appointed+his+vicar+and+high+minister+here%22&lr=&client=firefox#PRA4-PA514,M1

Henry VIII And The Reformation, 1962, H. Maynard Smith, Macmillan & Co Ltd, pp. 211-212.
archive.org/details/henryviiiandther007443mbp

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

How absurd. I am no longer RC. It is a small group of RC’s here who wish all the “fake” cafeteria Catholics as they call them to leave their perfect church so they can be pure. They have said this quite openly. They don’t care if the RCC is reduced by 75% to do it. They are the ones who claim they are the only Real Christians.

Truth and popularity don’t often travel together.

Which do you choose?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Well, I’ve found many things here, one of which are those who, for whatever reason, seem to have an (intense?) need to exclude, to absolutely exclude, from the realm of possibility, that the Catholic Church may indeed be the very Church which Christ himself founded.

No doubt there are some that are intent on that mission, but at least here, there are far outweighed by those of the RC faith, who can say nothing else in post after post, until one is forced to believe that they simply “protest too much” and indeed cannot abide their faith unless this belief is true.

More what I find is that some actually conclude that Jesus started no church but was intent on reforming his own. (anathama to any RC to be sure, since dissent is called heresy ironically within her walls, something Jesus might have been quite shocked about no doubt). To this end, of course, for some years following the crucifixion and resurrection, followers of the Way continued to worship in the synagogue, before they were turned out in the end.

You can say it all you wish, but just because a goodly number of non-RC’s continue to believe that the RCC was a later coalescence of disparate churches under their own authority, it is not necessarily so that the RCC was a Church as such from day one. A whole slue of Catholic theologians would dispute this with you.

But no matter, it appears to me, that in a real sense, this idea has become necessary to the faith of some folks. It usually does come down to an either or proposition to some minds. It’s all true, exactly as my Church says, or none of it is. Sad, but true. I am always saddened by the willingness to follow and defend because one is ordered to do so.