Sad for protestants

[Danimal]

Please do not feel to sad for us poor Protestants. We Methodists have a liturgical service that is very beautiful. We use a variety of Bible translations all the way from the King James to the newer paraphrased Bibles. My favorite translation is the English Standard Version.
We Methodists do commune with one another through the connectional system. We all use the same hymnal and liturgy. Here in Indiana we have 1200 United Methodist congregations making it the largest Protestant denomination in the state. We also have a bishop in charge of the state who ordains the pastors and assigns them to various churches.
I am happy to be part of the Methodist tradition and I do like learning the beliefs and practices of other Christians.

Peace

 

[joe370]

No I cling to GOD and my savior Jesus Christ. I find edification in scripture. I feel sorry for Catholics like you that just don’t get it. Jesus exists outside the RCC and is working miracles everyday. So please don’t feel sad for me as I don’t need your worthless pity. My life has been very blessed by the Lord.

Does Jesus also exist in the C.C., as well as the myriad P.C.'s? When I see this kind of hostility between Christians, it saddens me terribly. Jesus built just one church and said:

"I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me." John 17

Unity in Jesus’ established church, was/is clearly of paramount importance to our one and only Savior. We are brought to perfection the closer we get to a unified assembly of believers, as per the bible. We should all strive to unite as much as possible when we can, and respectfully agree to disagree, when we can’t. Satan is the author of confusion and revels in the combative inner turmoil that is so rampant in the divided world of Christianity. This lack of unity is what drew me to the C.C., but I truly believe that all Protestant churches are part of the Mystical Body of Christ. However, I am quite certain that Jesus is not too pleased with the people who divided His Body to which He is the head and Savior.

People outside the C.C. are raised by wonderful families, who rear and educate their children based on the church to which they belong; certainly there is nothing wrong with that. Like I always say: If one believes with one’s heart, soul and mind that one has found the church where the fullness of faith can be found, then you are home! I myself, after rigorous investigation, simply could not remain in one of the many Protestant churches in the world today. I needed to belong to an assembly that is one and united, and I just happen to believe that this unity and oneness…that the fullness of faith can be found in the C.C., and I am certain that that was the point of this thread.

I pray everyday that this grievous fracture in Jesus’ Mystical Body will mend, and until people stop nitpicking and critiquing the opposing view points of the C.C. and take a good long look at the calamitous fracture in the Protestant community, this mend is nothing more than a pipe dream. I pray that non-Catholics will shed their biases, remove their myopic glasses and see that these so called opposing view points are baseless and contrived, due to some misguided perception. Perhaps non-Catholics should take a long look into their own man-made traditions such as sola scriptura. The Apostles would have been shocked to know that one day people would embrace such an unbiblical doctrine. Sola scriptura via private interpretation was/is the cause of all the division in the Protestant world today; that is a fact, and a logical outcome when people take unresolvable issues to their respective bibles in lieu of the Church built by Jesus, as per Matthew 18:17. When 2 or more people cannot resolve an issue, Jesus wants us to take the matter to His established church ministers of reconciliation, empowered to teach all that Jesus commanded, and this is to be done until the end of time:
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

 

[Danimal]

I have regularly participated in the Walk to Emmaus movement which administered by the United Methodist Church. I believe Catholics have the same things called Cursillo. Actually, Walk to Emmaus came from the Cursillo. When we get together for an Emmaus event, for that period of time our denominational differences have no importance. We are all Christians who are trying to be the hands and feet of Christ.
I agree that Protestants fracture over interpretations of the Bible. I have witnessed this several times. I do not subscribe to sola scriptura or private interpretations of the Bible. I have seen some terrible errors come from that.
I think that those who accept Christ and follow him are all part of the body of Christ. You can be part of that Body whether you are Catholic, Methodist, Pentacostal, etc. What we don’t need to do is attack each other and realize that we are Christians regardless of our practices.
Actually, the divisions in Methodism had nothing to do with sola scripture. The first division of the denomination was over slavery. Other splits happened because of racism. Recently, there is a controversy over homosexuality. However, we don’t want to go the direction of the Episcopal Church. We want to maintain our unity as United Methodists. Also, the six Methodist denominations are in communion with each other and regularly dialogue. We don’t fight with each other and maintain a remarkable unity.
Peace,

 

[Hater_free]

This is a very sad forum. I don’t sense any love in all this. This is the kind of stuff the devil is aiming for. To the OP and all others like him on here it’s not your place to judge and condemn. Leave that to God because He knows all our hearts. If you feel so strongly about your protestant brothers & sisters being mislead in faith then you know what you should pray for them to find the truth rather than having a self righteous “I’m the chosen one” attitude and driving them away from Christ as if He doesn’t love them. Really listen to what the Lord is saying. Glory is for God not ourselves. God bless to all on here & everywhere. :tiphat::bible1:

“I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God’s mysterious plan, which is Christ himself. In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments.” {Colossians 2:2-4 NLT}

“Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers* of this world, rather than from Christ. For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.* So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.” {Colossians 2:8-10 NLT}

 

[rtibs]

This is a very sad forum. I don’t sense any love in all this. This is the kind of stuff the devil is aiming for. To the OP and all others like him on here it’s not your place to judge and condemn. Leave that to God because He knows all our hearts. If you feel so strongly about your protestant brothers & sisters being mislead in faith then you know what you should pray for them to find the truth rather than having a self righteous “I’m the chosen one” attitude and driving them away from Christ as if He doesn’t love them. Really listen to what the Lord is saying. Glory is for God not ourselves. God bless to all on here & everywhere. :tiphat::bible1:

“I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God’s mysterious plan, which is Christ himself. In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments.” {Colossians 2:2-4 NLT}

“Don’t let anyone capture you with empty philosophies and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking and from the spiritual powers* of this world, rather than from Christ. For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.* So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority.” {Colossians 2:8-10 NLT}

You are IN a forum my friend, where people interact not merely to seek for the truth, but to meet fellow citizens, even “netizens”, of this planet. It’s not like we are spiders spinning a web to attract unwitting victims and clobber you with our might, in our turf. For all we know, this is where love (“agape”) may truly begin; to debate, to agree to disagree, to exchange ideas and experience, are all part of this exercise, in this forum. Catholics do not self-righteously say we are the chosen ONE as much as we consider ourselves truly one in Christ, even if our separated brethren do not really believe we are. We pray we will soon be one as Christ himself prays. God bless you.

 

[Hater_free]

You are IN a forum my friend, where people interact not merely to seek for the truth, but to meet fellow citizens, even “netizens”, of this planet. It’s not like we are spiders spinning a web to attract unwitting victims and clobber you with our might, in our turf. For all we know, this is where love (“agape”) may truly begin; to debate, to agree to disagree, to exchange ideas and experience, are all part of this exercise, in this forum. Catholics do not self-righteously say we are the chosen ONE as much as we consider ourselves truly one in Christ, even if our separated brethren do not really believe we are. We pray we will soon be one as Christ himself prays. God bless you.

God bless you and yours too. Never said Catholics are self righteous in the sense of the faith itself I’m reffering to the OP and those with the mentality of the OP who are within the faith that are using the faith to condem and judge other believers that aren’t Catholic. What the OP posted up about fellow believers that aren’t Catholic inevitably started some division and hostility which isn’t a good thing. Again rather than trying to play God (this goes for anybody not just Catholics) and condemning people one should pray for that person that they deemed as lost & confused and most definitely do a self evaluation of themselves before they point out the next persons short coming in faith. Most definitely be firm in the faith but one shouldn’t become vain in it thinking they are more holy and worthy than the next.God bless!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

All protestants can cling to is their own version of the bible,

And most will. Remember the majority of them really don’t know any better and they assume that the guy up in their pulpit does because he says that he has a calling from God. Also, many of those (not all, mind you) are not nearly as well trained as our own priests and a surprising number are pretty much self taught.

What I am basically saying is that they suffer from the same kind of bad catechesis that so many of our own do. I think that is one reason that St. James writes, "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness." (Chapter 3:1)

a single fellowship( for most )

Don’t know how true that really is. It depends greatly upon the faith community. There are quite a few that belong to denominational organizations. I’d have to see some real stats to see what that really looks like before I could agree or disagree with you.

Those that are a single fellowship often tend to be the most extreme that I have run into.

non liturgical services,

Again not true of all. Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Anglicans, as well as Orthodox do all have liturgies (TtBoMK) and most of the rest have some form of order of worship which is in effect liturgical insofar as it is their traditional way of doing things.

Still, only the ones that I mentioned to begin with can really understand the richness of what we speak of as liturgy.

and a promise of salvation,

This really stems from poor Bible study and the interpretations of men, as we often see in discussions here on the forums on OSAS/Eternal Security.

I am concerned about the fact that it may well prove to be a case of Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

from their version of the Bible,

The vast majority of them don’t know any better and take it for granted that what they are being taught is correct when in fact a lot is left out of their instruction. Meanwhile, most of these folks do not have the time or inclination to really check the historical facts for themselves…

and faith in promises from their version.

Well… we all place faith in the promises that we find in the Word of God, else we’d have problems with all Christan doctrine. The fact is that Catholics really should get to know the Bible as well as they can and I believe that we will find that it not only makes us stronger in our faith, but will make us all far more effective as witnesses and apologists. God forbid we should ever even imagine that we should err into Sola Scriptura, but remember it is the Bible itself that best helps refute that by not teaching it to begin with. In this case, as Hebrews said the Word of God really is “a two edged sword”.

They don’t have a huge family of believers ( who believe all the
same things )saints, Mary,

Don’t forget that they also do not know the the angels the way we do, even though virtually everthing that we teach about them comes from the Bible itself.

The myriad and diversity of the faith communities certainly makes some of that fellowship harder, and without the uniformity of doctrines, teaching really gets difficult. I’ve seen some really heated arguments between members of different n-C faith communities. For example, we could throw Allischalmers in a thread on either tongues or Eternal Security with someone from the Assembly of God, and it would get real interesting real quick. :slapfight:

The church fathers(incl. many women ) writings or even the original bible. I am not condemning anyone, that is not my place,. I am just sad for the people who willingly, or out of ignorance, deny themselves all these blessings.

That’s what it all comes down to really.

So many of these people are very devout and even very fine people, but for one or both of those reasons they reject all things Catholic pretty much out of hand, and until they really begin to take the time and examine all these teachings closely, there’s always going to be that emptiness that we wonder (in retrospect in my case) how we ever did without. My Testimony

 

[JonNC]

And most will. Remember the majority of them really don’t know any better and they assume that the guy up in their pulpit does because he says that he has a calling from God. Also, many of those (not all, mind you) are not nearly as well trained as our own priests and a surprising number are pretty much self taught.

What I am basically saying is that they suffer from the same kind of bad catechesis that so many of our own do. I think that is one reason that St. James writes, "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness." (Chapter 3:1)Don’t know how true that really is. It depends greatly upon the faith community. There are quite a few that belong to denominational organizations. I’d have to see some real stats to see what that really looks like before I could agree or disagree with you.

Those that are a single fellowship often tend to be the most extreme that I have run into. Again not true of all. Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, and Anglicans, as well as Orthodox do all have liturgies (TtBoMK) and most of the rest have some form of order of worship which is in effect liturgical insofar as it is their traditional way of doing things.

Still, only the ones that I mentioned to begin with can really understand the richness of what we speak of as liturgy.This really stems from poor Bible study and the interpretations of men, as we often see in discussions here on the forums on OSAS/Eternal Security.

I am concerned about the fact that it may well prove to be a case of Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
The vast majority of them don’t know any better and take it for granted that what they are being taught is correct when in fact a lot is left out of their instruction. Meanwhile, most of these folks do not have the time or inclination to really check the historical facts for themselves…Well… we all place faith in the promises that we find in the Word of God, else we’d have problems with all Christan doctrine. The fact is that Catholics really should get to know the Bible as well as they can and I believe that we will find that it not only makes us stronger in our faith, but will make us all far more effective as witnesses and apologists. God forbid we should ever even imagine that we should err into Sola Scriptura, but remember it is the Bible itself that best helps refute that by not teaching it to begin with. In this case, as Hebrews said the Word of God really is “a two edged sword”. Don’t forget that they also do not know the the angels the way we do, even though virtually everthing that we teach about them comes from the Bible itself.

The myriad and diversity of the faith communities certainly makes some of that fellowship harder, and without the uniformity of doctrines, teaching really gets difficult. I’ve seen some really heated arguments between members of different n-C faith communities. For example, we could throw Allischalmers in a thread on either tongues or Eternal Security with someone from the Assembly of God, and it would get real interesting real quick. :slapfight:That’s what it all comes down to really.

So many of these people are very devout and even very fine people, but for one or both of those reasons they reject all things Catholic pretty much out of hand, and until they really begin to take the time and examine all these teachings closely, there’s always going to be that emptiness that we wonder (in retrospect in my case) how we ever did without. My Testimony

This is a reasoned, level, and charitable post.
On the part I bolded, I think there are many that have not even considered things Catholic enough to reject them. IOW, it isn’t an active rejection, if that makes sense.

Thanks Michael,
Jon

 

[Christalone]

All protestants can cling to is their own version of the bible, a single fellowship( for most )
non liturgical services, and a promise of salvation, from their version of the bible, and faith in promises from their version. They don’t have a huge family of believers ( who believe all the same things )saints, Mary, The church fathers(incl. many women ) writings or even the original bible. I am not condemning anyone, that is not my place,. I am just sad for the people who willingly, or out of ignorance, deny themselves all these blessings.

Maybe the shoe is on the other foot and you should be sad for yourself as you can not love thy neighbor as thyself.

or out of ignorance

The only ignorance here is calling another faith ignorant.

 

[Church_Militant]

This is a reasoned, level, and charitable post.
On the part I bolded, I think there are many that have not even considered things Catholic enough to reject them. IOW, it isn’t an active rejection, if that makes sense.

Thanks Michael,
Jon

Yes indeed and a good point! That is quite correct. It isn’t an informed and active rejection.One has to investigate truth to find it and if one is unwilling to do so then that leaves one open to accept things that others say that also come from that same lack of careful study that St. Paul enjoins St. Timothy to.

 

[Church_Militant]

Maybe the shoe is on the other foot and you should be sad for yourself as you can not love thy neighbor as thyself.

How do you see him as having been unloving. He expresses distress and mourning over that which is lacking in the faith of those Christians who, for whatever their reasons, remain outside of the Catholic faith and enumerates that which he feels they are missing.

I think he’s done pretty well, knowing how many times I, myself have been subjected to anti-Catholic polemics and rhetoric.

I’ve been accosted in public and told that I’m an idolater and been told in e-mails that I am the tool of the devil himself. On at least two occasions I have been threatened by n-Cs who thought they might just need to “whip my Irish Catholic butt” (or words to that effect…)

To be honest, if you don’t like what Catholics have to say then don’t read it. Plant you head in the sand or your copy of Lorraine Boettner’s lying “Roman Catholicism” and continue on your merry way, seeking to convince others that you have an above average knowledge and understanding of our most holy faith. If that will make you feel better that is…

The only ignorance here is calling another faith ignorant.

It generally is ignorance. Ignorance of Christian history, the early church fathers, and even the Word of God. I have found that a great many n-Cs who attempt to proselytize me have found it quite distressing that I know the Bible at least as well as they do and very often far better, something that even surprises me.

Heck, my dear sainted Grandmother, who was a life long Catholic, read and knew the Word of God better than most people I have met! I pray that I may someday approach her level of knowledge of the Bible.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I can’t say that the “I sure feel sorry for you Protestants” thread is a very good one. We need to keep in mind that some of the greatest thinkers and most brilliant modern Catholic theologians are converts from Protestantism.

Karl Barth (to name but one) stayed Protestant - which did not prevent Pius XII speaking well of him; not that Barth stands or falls by what Catholics think of him, but the Pope showed himself more Catholic than those Catholics who allow no good in Protestantism except in so far as it is a source of Catholics.​

It would be nice if Catholics could see the strengths in Protestantism - if it were such a load of diarrhoea as some seem to imagine, it would hardly have lasted or spread or prospered as it has. Recognising those strengths would take nothing from the RCC. If Protestantism is as negligible morally, spiritually, doctrinally, historically, liturgically, intellectually & in every other way as seems to be implied, it becomes utterly inexplicable - for something that is (apparently) so utterly void of any redeeming qualities should have been the easiest thing in the world to destroy. Yet it is very far from destroyed.

Fortunately, not all Catholics are incapable of being gracious, generous & appreciative of what is admirable in it, or of learning from it. But those who are can it seems be dismissed, as not really Catholics

Scott Hahn and company weren’t nurtured in Catholicism. They’ve brought a LOT to the table.

And if Protestantism is such utter bilge - how was that possible ? Anti-Protestants leave that unexplained.​

Protestantism offers a great appreciation for Scripture and they are not a pathetic, lonely, detached group? Most Protestant churches I know have a far superior sense of fellowship than we Catholics. My former Anglican Church had wonderful fellowship opportunities. Protestants also are very prayerful people and many are quite devout. I remember the old Anglican liturgy that my wife and family attended and it was quite beautiful, worded in a much more lovely form of English than the Norvus Ordo we use in Catholicism today. Protestant churches often are also very pastoral. My former Anglican diocese was quite pastoral. They’d be at your house or the hospital in a New York minute for just about anything. God loves Protestants greatly and some posters are right that God is using Protestants to do great works in our world and bring souls to Jesus. Happy Easter to everyone!

Very nice tone there ​