Sad this morning

[JohnPaulTwoToo]

TC, I can empathize with your wife regarding her observation that Catholics frequently surpass the barbarity of the barbarians they supposedly civilized in the 1st millenium. Many former Catholics I know who have turned to disordered lifestyles have suffered terribly at the hands of Catholic family and parish that should have nurtured and protected them, and are trying to manage their pain through their hedonism. It is an extraordinary mystery that members of Christ’s body have stayed faithful despite the morbidity and cancerousness of the “flesh” surrounding them. I have experienced that mystery very intensely, myself. I assert, through experience, that that fidelity is supernatural in origin. One of my favorite saints is St. Germaine Cousin, who exemplifies this paradox very poignantly. Here is an article by Fr. Benedict Groeschel that may give you some comfort:

The Church of Latter Day Sinners

 

[bpbasilphx]

Homosexuality, bestiality, and transsexuality are three entirely different issues that have nothing to do with each other, though the distinctions are too subtle for some minds to grasp.

I can explain transsexuality this way: Imagine how you would feel if you woke up one morning, and discovered you had the genitals and all the other characteristics of the opposite sex. Imagine your horror and bewilderment and astonishment when what you saw in the mirror did not match what you knew in your mind and innermost heart to be true about yourself. THIS is what a transsexual faces every day of his or her life until gender reassignment surgery.

 

[The_Catholic]

If what I picked up was right, then you have come back to the Catholic Church, but she is still Protestant, or she is ‘wandering’ in her faith journey. One possibility is that she was emotionally hurt when you decided to come back to the Church and she is struggling with that. Of course, this is just a small guess from a couple of paragraphs you have given us about the situation. I really suggest you find a good priest who you can talk to face to face. Either way, you and your wife will be in all of our prayers.

Peace.

Ah no no no. Sorry, I’m not at all good at explaining things quickly, as I wrote this post before work. But no, my wife used to be Catholic. A very humble Catholic. I was Protestant. When we first starting dating we would argue (kindly) over theology. Eventually I statred investigating Catholicism and came to believe it is the Truth, so I converted (well actually, I was Catholic until 6 or 7, then I simply laughed at it and turned away, bratty boy I was)

But now my wife considers herself lost. Doesn’t know what to believe. She has looked into Wicca, but couldn’t find anthing there neither. So she’s just “wandering” around. I love her with all my heart, and would die for her. I just want her to come back to the church. For now it’s sad.

 

[The_Catholic]

The Catholic-

I feel sure that you do not condone the mistreatment of others, or relish in their pain or agony. You didn’t say, but I hope Melissa perhaps believes that the way her friends are living is sinful, and simply believes (and I think rightfully so) that her friends and others should not be mistreated no matter how they are living wrongly.

Is there anyway for you to work to find the common ground with Melissa on this subject. I don’t think not discussing it is good for either of you, it sounds as though this subject is only widening a divide between the two fo you.

I suggest that perhaps you have 2 points of common ground as I said in my first paragraph.

I’m not suggesting not to be true to your beliefs (I have the same beliefs), but you can hate the sin without hating the sinner. Stating it another way, you can love the sinner while hating the sins.

Perhaps you could use this as common ground, and with your wife pray for her friends. Pray that they are not hurt by others, and also pray that they turn away from their sins and come closer to God.

I don’t believe that one human being has the right to hurt another for their lifestyle choices. What this amounts to is a hate crime, and the judgement of others. Their is one judge, so we should leave the judging to HIM.

Peace be with you and your wife my friend.

I know, I will pray for them Melissa knows I love them as human beings. But still, she will not say that what they are doing is sin.

 

[The_Catholic]

cries, haven’t been on since thursday, so many posts to respond to lol

 

[The_Catholic]

Homosexuality, bestiality, and transsexuality are three entirely different issues that have nothing to do with each other, though the distinctions are too subtle for some minds to grasp.

I can explain transsexuality this way: Imagine how you would feel if you woke up one morning, and discovered you had the genitals and all the other characteristics of the opposite sex. Imagine your horror and bewilderment and astonishment when what you saw in the mirror did not match what you knew in your mind and innermost heart to be true about yourself. THIS is what a transsexual faces every day of his or her life until gender reassignment surgery.

Hello, I just want to say that if you literaly have male and female parts, as some are born with, then yes you should have surgery and choose what you want to be. Though I don’t buy into this “feeling” idea, where someone just “feels” like a woman and yet is 100% physicaly male or vice-versa.

 

[The_Catholic]

Everyone who does evil causes harm as all are suffering for each others sin and each man is paying his own debt and the debt of his brother and sister in Christ Jesus and this is why we are tested and this is why we do suffer and this is why we are labouring on carrying our crosses, but God has taken the worst of humanity and brought it forth to bring about the greatest of joy and by our enduring in Jesus we too work for our own salvation and the salvation of others.

This being said, we do not let injustice flourish or we too would be doing an evil by ommitting to do what is just, that also being said we are kindly to the sinner because they wouldn’t be as such if they weren’t suffering in their soul and ailing in spirit.

Why repeatedly state to your wife that what they do is a sin? She truly knows this but tries to justify it because her compassion for people and past experience in life is compelling her this way, but her heart knows and you infuriate her because she does not wish to acknowledge it. So the only way to justify it is to say that those who are preaching don’t practise what they preach and are just as sinful if not worse and leave them be because they don’t cause me personal harm. The conversation turns into a row and the row turns into yelling vitriole at each other. Then tell me their actions do not cause suffering in the world. Every sinful action causes suffering in the world.

Try and keep the peace and keep off the subject

In the Living Prayer of my life

I know. I have done that though, and we seldom fight. I was just kind of pushed on the idea the other day, as to whether say if it’s wrong or right, and of course I said (in a calm tone) it’s wrong.

 

[The_Catholic]

You know I’ve been thinking about this for an hour now.

I live in a part of the USA that has a LOT of homosexuals. In fact I, myself am single and I know many single women. There seem to be very few straight unmarried men in our area and the lack there-of causes a few problems:

• The homosexual population continues to increase as they attract to eachother.
• There seem to be far more single straight women than men.
• Single straight men know they have a lot to pick from and so they tend to date multiple women or cheat on their wives. I’ve had married men ask me to go home with them or date them on a few occasions now. They can get away with this because there aren’t enough straight men to go around. They don’t even bother to try to hide it.
• Single women are very competitive and paranoid if they do date anyone. It is hard not to be. For me personally I’ve now dated 2 different men that have turned out to decide they are gay. I don’t even bother dating anymore.
• I’ve also noticed that gay men tend to show sexuality and sexual acts more than straight people do. They flaunt it. (not all of course) But this does make it uncomfortable to raise a child around this. Please note that it is uncomfortable even when straight people make out in public, but I’ve noticed they don’t do this as much.

These experiances have led me on occasions to feel like there is something inherently wrong with being a woman.

National Geographic did a census of single men and women ratios and put it in one of their issues a couple years ago. Our area had tons of single men and women so it looks ripe for dating. What they neglected is that most of those single men are gay.

Please understand that I am aware that I am generalizing here but from my experiance, and those of my friends, this is what I see happening around me.

Also, please understand that I have gay friends. I love them as I would any friend. They too see what I am talking about.

My point is that I don’t think people realize that homosexuality actually does cause some problems for some people. I know homosexuals don’t go out and directly “hurt” anyone. But it does cause problems, in these extreme cases, with the building of the traditional family and the birth of children.

I am treading on scary ground posting this and mean no harm. Just thought I would post some observations.

I do believe we shoudl respect all people homosexual or not. I guess I am just providing an arguement describing how it is possible to hurt people with it. I hope this makes sense and I seriously apologize if this hurts anyone. No harm intended.

No it’s ok, your post was wonderful as I can see it.

 

[The_Catholic]

The Catholic

Well, I know your dilema. I have an aunt and cousin who are lesbians.

I follow Pope John Paul II on this issue. We are to love them, and pray for them. Who knows what sort of cross they carry?

From my own perspective, I see this as their poverty as we all are poor in various aspects of our lives.

It would be easy for me as a happily married heterosexual to condemn homosexuality, but I don’t have to live it. I’m don’t even capable of understanding it.

So, treat them as Jesus would. This doesn’t mean you have to embrace their life-style or confirm it. But treat them with with love and compassion.

Jim

I will, I always have. But I’m the “evil” one it seems when I state (when I’m asked again and again) that I don’t believe it’s right. Anyhow, I may be living next to them. My wife wants to get land and they do too right alongside one another. I feel like I will be the one left out. That they, ALL of they, my wife included, will be doing things without me cause of my Faith. I don’t know. I want to raise my kids Catholic, Melissa has agreed to this too, but I just fear they will be influenced by seeing our next door niehbors (who will always be over). What if our kids hate the Faith? What is they want to be like everyone else. I will be the only one around who will be different.

 

[mpb74]

You are in a tough spot. Melissa seems bent on changing your deeply held beliefs. Discord between husband and wife is difficult but it’s effects are greatly magnified when children are in the home. You may not argue in front of them, but they do know.

One option could be to tell her you respect her right to believe as she believes, and you would like her to show the same respect to you. If you both agreed to raise your children Catholic, and you are the only Catholic parent, you are solely responsible for imparting Catholic teaching and faith to them, and she should do nothing to contradict those teachings. She seems to think she knows all about Catholicism so she knew what she was entering into with her agreement. If she says she didn’t know, direct her to this web site, she may be enlightened, I certainly was.

Also, try to find a place on catholic. com that explains Catholic teaching on the subject of homosexuality. Also that Catholics,true to the church, judge no person, only actions. God will be the judge and what either one of you believes is irrelevant to God’s judgement.

Remember that the kids welfare is the most important thing. Good Luck. Dan

 

[mpb74]

BTW

Is Melissa judging all Christians and Catholics the same way you are supposedly judging homosexuals? Dan

 

[The_Catholic]

You are in a tough spot. Melissa seems bent on changing your deeply held beliefs. Discord between husband and wife is difficult but it’s effects are greatly magnified when children are in the home. You may not argue in front of them, but they do know.

One option could be to tell her you respect her right to believe as she believes, and you would like her to show the same respect to you. If you both agreed to raise your children Catholic, and you are the only Catholic parent, you are solely responsible for imparting Catholic teaching and faith to them, and she should do nothing to contradict those teachings. She seems to think she knows all about Catholicism so she knew what she was entering into with her agreement. If she says she didn’t know, direct her to this web site, she may be enlightened, I certainly was.

Also, try to find a place on catholic. com that explains Catholic teaching on the subject of homosexuality. Also that Catholics,true to the church, judge no person, only actions. God will be the judge and what either one of you believes is irrelevant to God’s judgement.

Remember that the kids welfare is the most important thing. Good Luck. Dan

No she doesn’t want me to change my opinon by force, though I know she would feel better if I did, cause it’s a struggle whenever the subject comes up. She does respect my view, as long as there is no pushyness. She says that I am the only Catholic she knows who isn’t pushy.

Also, she has been on these forums before. Back in the spring she had posted alot on homosexuality, and was trying to see why it was truly moraly wrong. Eventualy she just accepted that it was ok and never came back on since. She has a fragile heart, if she came on this post she’d probaly cry and get really angry with me for telling all you. I only did it though cause I wanted to comunicate with my sisters and brothers.

 

[mpb74]

You are doing the right thing by sharing here. You are in pain over the disagreements and seek companionship & spiritual comfort in your pain. Loneliness in such times leaves one open to thoughts and ideas that are not beneficial to you. A person can feel isolated and begin to feel he is wrong when feeling the separation in spirit between he and his wife.

You are not betraying Melissa in any way by posting here. You are anonymous and she is even more so. She might likely share her frustrations with her friends and colleagues. As to a fragile heart, all you can do is reaffirm your love for her, let her know you are always there and take your vows of marriage seriously. Especially til death do us part. You made a lifetime commitment, and want to keep it because she is the love of your life. She is the one you chose to spend your life with, and it was the best decision you ever made. And you would never change that. Sometimes our loved ones feel as though we don’t love them because we argue or disagree. If you didn’t feel that way I doubt you would be here.

I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds, if I have I apologize. Though I may not be someone who can help you, there absolutely are on these forums. To go this road road alone is reckless. Good luck I gotta go now, be back later. Dan

 

[The_Catholic]

You are doing the right thing by sharing here. You are in pain over the disagreements and seek companionship & spiritual comfort in your pain. Loneliness in such times leaves one open to thoughts and ideas that are not beneficial to you. A person can feel isolated and begin to feel he is wrong when feeling the separation in spirit between he and his wife.

You are not betraying Melissa in any way by posting here. You are anonymous and she is even more so. She might likely share her frustrations with her friends and colleagues. As to a fragile heart, all you can do is reaffirm your love for her, let her know you are always there and take your vows of marriage seriously. Especially til death do us part. You made a lifetime commitment, and want to keep it because she is the love of your life. She is the one you chose to spend your life with, and it was the best decision you ever made. And you would never change that. Sometimes our loved ones feel as though we don’t love them because we argue or disagree. If you didn’t feel that way I doubt you would be here.

I hope I haven’t overstepped my bounds, if I have I apologize. Though I may not be someone who can help you, there absolutely are on these forums. To go this road road alone is reckless. Good luck I gotta go now, be back later. Dan

Dan, your post melted my heart. Thank you very much

Yes I love her, and I know she loves me, overall we have a great relationship. And if it wasn’t for her, I would not be Catholic and know all the blessings that come with it. God bless you brother.