Saddam in Knickers

[gilliam]

By the way, I’d like to say a few words about the Saddam in Knickers thing.
I actually don’t think Saddam would mind being seen this way at all; back in the 1990s he appeared on the state TV wearing a swim suit smaller than the underwear he was wearing in the recent photos. And not only that, he was dancing in that “out fit”!
So if it was okay for him to appear half naked on TV when he was in power, I don’t think he would mind being seen the same way when he’s a prisoner and I really don’t understand the frenzy of his Jordanian attorney who described taking the photos as a crime!

That across the river swim became almost a national holiday as it marked the memory of the day when Saddam crossed the Tigris on his way to Syria after his flawed attempt to assassinate general Kasim (the 1st president in republican Iraq) back in 1959.
Many video clips of “patriotic songs” used snap shots from that dance to remind the people of how strong and fit their leader was, so it’s never a new scene for us here.

Anyway, I guess these pictures will have a greater impact outside Iraq rather than inside and whether showing them was with or against the law I believe it delivered another strong message to the small tyrants of the neighborhood and shook their image in the eyes of their people. I won’t be surprised to hear that someone from Egypt or Syria used photoshop to edit these photos and fit Mubarak’s or Asad’s face on Saddam’s body.iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/05/by-way-id-like-to-say-few-words-about.html

 

[Matt25]

I guess if al Quaeda captured Don Rumsfeld and showed pictures of him in his underwear that would be ok. Or is it only “civillised” nations that are allowed to break the Geneva Convention.

Would it not be the way to demonstrate that Saddam was wrong to parade prisoners in front of the camera’s to not parade him in front of them? It was not wrong for him to do it but right for us to do it. It is always wrong to parade prisoners before unhealthy public curiosity. No Christian virtue is served by doing or condoning this act.

All the crimes commited by Saddam do not justify a single crime, however trivial, against him. All crimes by their nature are wrong and civillised people uphold the legitimate rights of both the guilty and the innocent. Criminals lose some of their rights certainly but that does not apply in this particular case,

 

[gnjsdad]

Matt25:

I guess if al Quaeda captured Don Rumsfeld and showed pictures of him in his underwear that would be ok. Or is it only “civillised” nations that are allowed to break the Geneva Convention.

Would it not be the way to demonstrate that Saddam was wrong to parade prisoners in front of the camera’s to not parade him in front of them? It was not wrong for him to do it but right for us to do it. It is always wrong to parade prisoners before unhealthy public curiosity. No Christian virtue is served by doing or condoning this act.

All the crimes commited by Saddam do not justify a single crime, however trivial, against him. All crimes by their nature are wrong and civillised people uphold the legitimate rights of both the guilty and the innocent. Criminals lose some of their rights certainly but that does not apply in this particular case,

Very well said.

The attitude among many here seems to be that of the shoplifter who gets caught with $100 worth of merchandise who then complains about the guy that steals thousands who police should** really** be going after.

Or, if our side does it, it’s not that bad, because, well, our side did it.

 

[David_Paul]

The same moral equivalency the Rev Jim Wallis and others preached during the Cold War (i.e. Wall Street is just as bad as the Kremlin, who are we to oppose communism?) is back.

 

[gnjsdad]

David_Paul:

The same moral equivalency the Rev Jim Wallis and others preached during the Cold War (i.e. Wall Street is just as bad as the Kremlin, who are we to oppose communism?) is back.

We’re not talking moral equivalency here, but moral relativism. Things that are clearly immoral are justified because our side does them. It’s no defense to say “well, that guy’s done things much worse so whatever we do to him is OK”. That is moral relativism, pure and simple.

 

[David_Paul]

Trouble with that argument is nobody is making it. The photo? If it is legit, the person who took it is in deep trouble. Abuse of prisoners? People are in prison right now for it.

 

[Jennifer123]

:twocents:
Much ado about nothing…I’d save the moral outrage for the real injustices.
Just my not so humble opinion!!!

 

[gilliam]

David_Paul:

Trouble with that argument is nobody is making it. The photo? If it is legit, the person who took it is in deep trouble. Abuse of prisoners? People are in prison right now for it.

There is no abuse in these photos. But the broadcast of them could be against the Geneva Convention (not that the enemy cares about the convention). Anyway, it doesn’t look like the Arab Street cares about them that much.

Our military will investigate and if a soldier sold the photos they will be prosecuted (because we have a moral compass), however if it was an Iraqi civilian, I doubt they will be prosecuted.

 

[Fitz]

gilliam:

There is no abuse in these photos. But the broadcast of them could be against the Geneva Convention (not that the enemy cares about the convention). Anyway, it doesn’t look like the Arab Street cares about them that much.

Our military will investigate and if a soldier sold the photos they will be prosecuted (because we have a moral compass), however if it was an Iraqi civilian, I doubt they will be prosecuted.

If it was an Iraqi citizen, then everyone will think they are justified. Maybe they are. Think of how Saddam was unafraid to parade himself in the news while in power. If this is the worst that happens to him before his trial, then it is not that bad.

If an American soldier did it, then he or she will live to regret that decision. They will face disciplinary action and perhaps a court martial.

Either way, do any of you feel sorry for Saddam?

 

[Shoshana]

Fitz:

Either way, do any of you feel sorry for Saddam?

It is not a matter of feeling sorry, Fitz. It is the message that is being given to the rest of the world. If the tables were turned…methinks any western would be offended by seeing Bush in underwear, our Pope in underwear…or any other person. It is just plain offensive and degrading of the the supposed Western Christian mentality. Just as degrading as the american prisoners making the Iraqui soldiers commit fellatio in prison…

Blessings,
Shoshana

 

[Shinobu]

Isn’t human dignity a God given right? Despite how we feel about anyone don’t we realize that “an eye for an eye” ends badly?

 

[Fitz]

Shoshana:

It is not a matter of feeling sorry, Fitz. It is the message that is being given to the rest of the world. If the tables were turned…methinks any western would be offended by seeing Bush in underwear, our Pope in underwear…or any other person. It is just plain offensive and degrading of the the supposed Western Christian mentality. Just as degrading as the american prisoners making the Iraqui soldiers commit fellatio in prison…

Blessings,
Shoshana

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4565505.stm

Sho, I was just wondering aloud how the world would think if it was an Iraqi citizen, given that he abused them so much.

Why do you think the British Press printed this? When they found the photos they did not need to print them. Investigations can take place without the exposure.

As far as what took place in the prisons, I won’t believe anything I read. I would trust the courts to get to the bottom of it, but not the news sources. They have an agenda.

I have seen our press try to insult our President, our Pope, and I don’t like that either. I am not in favor of the liberal press here or abroad. The coverage anywhere except in Catholic sources is to sensationalize and I don’t like it. We had a budding artistic student that had a painting with a gun to Bush’s head in a art show in Chicago. The same school had Mayor Washington (our first black mayor) in his underwear several years back. I have never liked this treatment of people.

Saddam, I don’t feel sorry for. He was never religious and he didn’t have trouble showing his body. If it was an Iraqi citizen then I am not upset. If it was a soldier, from any country, I know they will be punished. That does not give any newspaper the right to print it. Printing it would have been against the Geneva convention I would think.