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meltzerboy2
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Aren’t religions and beliefs in G-d or gods also sets of beliefs, and sometimes opposing beliefs?
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Freddy
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We’ve moved from ‘dignity doesn’t exist’ to ‘it’s not rational for me to determine something to be so’. You are free to think that.Freddy:
I am sure that you correctly identify some events or situations as truly undignified. However, whether or not it’s rational for you to think that something is truly undignified while being an atheist at the same time is a different question entirely.
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IWantGod
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I didn’t say that dignity doesn’t exist. I said it doesn’t exist if God doesn’t exist.
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Freddy
Guest
I don’t think He does exist. So does dignity exist for me?Freddy:
I didn’t say that dignity doesn’t exist. I said it doesn’t exist if God doesn’t exist.
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IWantGod
Guest
It’s not rational for you to think so because that is the consequences that follow logically from your atheism…
Let me put it another way. It is not rational for you to be atheist if you can identify situations or events as being truly dignified or undignified…
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Freddy
Guest
So if our PM does his corona virus update on the national news tonight (more good news, I hope) wearing a tutu and a top hat and nothing else and I think it looks somewhat undignified, then either that view is irrational or I believe in God.Freddy:
It’s not rational for you to think so because that is the logical consequences of your atheism…
Let me put it another way. It is not rational for you to be atheist if you can identify situations or events as being truly dignified or undignified…
The second option is out. So why would my thinking his dress sense for the ocassion is undignified be irrational?
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christismylord
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It is only rational if there is an objective standard by which to measure it. The only objective measure by which we can discern how things are, is rooted in the Truth of God, whether one admits it or not. God often speaks to us through our conscience, which He created. (Now there are times when man can convince himself of lies, or the conscience is infiltrated by evil, so please no more hypotheticals about that. I am talking about the majority of the time in a healthy person.) The Bible tells us to dress modestly, and the Bible is God’s Word, which is Truth. So why do you feel that way about how he dresses? Most likely because your conscience, created by God, but nature feels this way.
Your opinion could also simply be shaped by society and the opinions around you. If this is the case, than it has absolutely no merit, because as I said before, human opinion has no power to change the Truth, because God is Truth and He is unchangeable.
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Freddy
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So the only reason he’d look ridiculous is because God said to dress modestly? Is a top hat immodest? Are board shorts immodest? Did God say ‘dress for the ocassion!’ I think not.Freddy:
It is only rational if there is an objective standard by which to measure it. The only objective measure by which we can discern how things are, is rooted in the Truth of God, whether one admits it or not. God often speaks to us through our conscience, which He created. (Now there are times when man can convince himself of lies, or the conscience is infiltrated by evil, so please no more hypotheticals about that. I am talking about the majority of the time in a healthy person.) The Bible tells us to dress modestly, and the Bible is God’s Word, which is Truth. So why do you feel that way about how he dresses? Most likely because your conscience, created by God, but nature feels this way.
Your opinion could also simply be shaped by society and the opinions around you. If this is the case, than it has absolutely no merit, because as I said before, human opinion has no power to change the Truth, because God is Truth and He is unchangeable.
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christismylord
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I didn’t say a top hat or board shorts were immodest. If you think he looks “ridiculous” then that is your opinion, not an objective thing anyway, which has nothing to do with morality or dignity. God can judge if He thinks this person is dressing in a provocative or disrespectful manner. Our bodies belong to God who made them, we should display them with modesty and humble appreciation for God’s work. God can judge who does and doesn’t display themselves in a way pleasing to Him.
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Freddy
Guest
So, in your opinion, would he look immodest?Freddy:
I didn’t say a top hat or board shorts were immodest. If you think he looks “ridiculous” then that is your opinion, not an objective thing anyway, which has nothing to do with morality or dignity. God can judge if He thinks this person is dressing in a provocative or disrespectful manner. Our bodies belong to God who made them, we should display them with modesty and humble appreciation for God’s work. God can judge who does and doesn’t display themselves in a way pleasing to Him.
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christismylord
Guest
That is exactly the point I am trying to make: my opinion is completely irrelevant and worthless! I want my opinion to be whatever God’s opinion is. If it is a minuscule matter, and not my right to judge (which it is not) then why should I have an opinion about it? Why should I tell myself “This man is ridiculous.” I shouldn’t. If it is a grave matter, God can judge. If it is a silly matter, I am not going to worry myself over it.
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Freddy
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I’m not sure we can go any further with this.
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christismylord
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Hahaha! I see how that may not be a good statement to make while trying to make a point. Lol well I just gotta laugh at myself there. The point is that you shouldn’t listen because @christismylord says so. Believe because God says so. The opinion and judgement that matters is God’s. It is fun to debate, but in the end there is one Truth. May God lead us all to the Truth.
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Freddy
Guest
Stay healthy friend.
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Magnanimity
Guest
How do you figure? 100 years includes the post-War roaring 20’s (a height of fashion eras), the Depression, WW2, post-war 50’s, hippy 60’s, and on and on. You can tell yourself that a 100 year period entails homogeneity, but there is no evidence to support that view. We have the benefit of photos from all these decades to undermine any such claim.
Since female humans carry more bodyfat than their male counterparts (on average) “fleshy” females is always en vogue. The “chiseled” look is admired in male humans (presumably bc it speaks to his “strength”) but I see no reason to believe it is desired in female humans. Those unfortunate female models who starve themselves for the catwalk do not achieve a chilseled look–they remain “fleshy” - just fleshy while thin. As I said, from Kim K. to Ariana G., the common features still remain. Not all beautiful women have all the features I mentioned, but all beautiful women have most of the features I mentioned. (I believe this may be the 3rd time I’ve said this.)
My you do love your allegations of informal logical fallacies. Perhaps this counts for you as making-an-argument.
Counter-examples to conscience exist in psychopaths (among others), counter-examples to rationality exist among those with damaged/underdeveloped brains (among others), yet all would grant the universality of human powers of conscience and rationality. If giving you particular examples (Beethoven, Mozart, the Beatles) makes you skiddish, it is good enough for me to broaden the claim. We could say that humans, universally, find beauty in music. Finding this or that counter-example does not undermine the norm or its universality.
This is of course so incredulous a reply as to not be worth engagement. If you ever do come up with a rational reason to account for the staying power of the world’s major world religions, feel free to suggest it.
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StudentMI
Guest
Oh without a doubt.
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