Saint Augustine West- East

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Why is Saint Augustine’s writings so important in the Western Church? Whenever I read about the Church Fathers in the East, Chrysostom and Basil and Gregory and Palamas and Maximos are all important, but I never really see one stand out from the others. In the west, it always seems to based entirely on Augustine. How did this come about, and when did it take place?

 

[ZDHayden]

Why is Saint Augustine’s writings so important in the Western Church? Whenever I read about the Church Fathers in the East, Chrysostom and Basil and Gregory and Palamas and Maximos are all important, but I never really see one stand out from the others. In the west, it always seems to based entirely on Augustine. How did this come about, and when did it take place?

I am rather biased (St. Augustine is my patron saint), but I will attempt to answer in the best way I can without putting St. Augustine on too high of a pedestal .

I have two or three ways of describing this (not certain at this point, we shall see as the post develops). First: There were simply more Eastern Fathers than Western geographically. There were more Greek Fathers than Latin Fathers.

Second: St. Augustine wrote perhaps more than Basil and Chrysostom combined. There is simply more content from St. Augustine than the rest of his Latin contemporaries. There is evidence he also wielded quite a bit of pull in the Church in his day.

Third: (here is my bias) St. Augustine was one of the few minds in history which could be called brilliant. Whether you agree or disagree with his philosophy, you cannot deny his intellect. He also knew intimately what he fought against.

These are all explanations of how. As to when, I cannot point to any year. From what I can tell it was a gradual adoption, to such an extent that by the Medieval Ages, the West was almost entirely defined by St. Augustine.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hesychios]

Why is Saint Augustine’s writings so important in the Western Church?..

I think Tertullian was a great seminal thinker in the western church, and (although greater in influence) Augustine follows. So it is helpful to read Tertullian from his ‘Catholic’ period.

Interesting that they were both north Africans, and their primary language was Latin.

But generally in Augustine’s day there wasn’t much else significant going on in Latin (there were others, but not on his scale of output, and some like Pelagius did not get their works copied after they were repudiated). Saint Augustine swept the field.

 

[Vico]

…
Interesting that they were both north Africans, and their primary language was Latin.
…

Pope Saint Victor I, Pope from 186/189 - 197/201, was from North Africa (where Latin was spoken), and was responsible for the switch from Greek Mass to Latin Mass, in Rome (not universal at that time), and is thought to be the first to write theology in Latin.

Some influencial Fathers:

Clement of Alexandria (the vegetarian) 150 - 215, born in Athens
Tertullian ~160 - ~220, raised in Carthage (N. Africa)
Cyril of Jerusalem 313 - 386, born in Caesarea Palaestina (?)
Ambrose 337/340 - 397, born in Trier
Augustine 354 - 430, born in (today) Algeria, North Africa

So Pope Saint Victor 1 lived at the same time as Tertullian.

 

[marlo]

Also, St. Augustine has an excellent teacher and adviser too, Pope Gregory I The Great.

I think Tertullian was a great seminal thinker in the western church, and (although greater in influence) Augustine follows. So it is helpful to read Tertullian from his ‘Catholic’ period.

Interesting that they were both north Africans, and their primary language was Latin.

But generally in Augustine’s day there wasn’t much else significant going on in Latin (there were others, but not on his scale of output, and some like Pelagius did not get their works copied after they were repudiated). Saint Augustine swept the field.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Actually, I don’t believe that the Western emphasis on St Augustine was due because there were few other teachers around in the West! I believe that is a simplistic approach!

The Fathers of the East, the Cappadocian and Alexandrian Fathers were NEVER somehow considered “not significant for the West” because they were “Eastern.”

The East/West divide is a later phenomenon and doesn’t enter at all into the issue of why the West chose to emphasize Augustine.

There was no reason, therefore, why the West could not have emphasized St Basil the Great or someone else. It chose to go with Augustine - and Augustine had his detractors, not only in the East, but also in the West.

Alex

 

[Little_Boy_Lost]

Why did no one Father become popular in the East like Augustine? Or was there before the celebration and codification of the Three Holy Hierarchs? I tend to view Chrysostom as one of the most extensive fathers, and he’s definitely one of my favorites but I would never give him the final final say on things like folks do with Augustine.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Little Boy Lost,

Why did no one Father become popular in the East like Augustine? Or was there before the celebration and codification of the Three Holy Hierarchs? I tend to view Chrysostom as one of the most extensive fathers, and he’s definitely one of my favorites but I would never give him the final final say on things like folks do with Augustine.

I haven’t perceived that. I see St. Augustine mostly utilized in matters of soteriology. In all other matters, I have seen a great breadth of appreciation for Fathers both East and West.

I think the popularity came after the Reformation. Protestants focused on St. Augustine, so the Latin Catholic Church responded in kind. He has become so popular because it is the interpretation of his writings that has become the locus of controversy for Western Christians.

When I was not yet Catholic, and I debated Catholics, I found Catholics appealed constantly to a wide range of Fathers, so I guess that is why I never noticed that they particularly focused on St. Augustine.

In a sea of Protestantism, it should probably be expected that one will find constant reference to St. Augustine. But in the microcosm of the relationship between Catholics and Orthodox, that will probably be less likely the case.

Blessings,
Marduk