Saint Bernardino of Siena

[HailHolyQueen90]

Can someone explain Saint Bernardino of Sienas anti semetic and homophobic sermons? Do these bother you? Is there an explanation for them?

 

[HailHolyQueen90]

 

[JM3]

Can someone explain Saint Bernardino of Sienas anti semetic and homophobic sermons? Do these bother you? Is there an explanation for them?

Perhaps, if you were to provide a link to the sermons in question or provide the text of the sermons in question, someone could answer you. As for me, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[HailHolyQueen90]

I’m sure a lot more people know about them, then not. And yes I’m using wikipedia for one. What am I suppose to do if I’m put on the spot having to defend him, if no one here even knows how to defend him themselves.

datinggod.org/2011/05/18/saint-bernardine-of-siena-a-personal-reflection/
" His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism and homophobia."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bernardino_of_Siena
“Both while he was alive and after his death (the first edition of his works, for the most part elaborate sermons, was printed at Lyon in 1501), Bernardino’s legacy was far from benign: of fanatical moralizing temperament, he preached fiery, intransigent sermons against many classes of people. His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism, misogyny, and homophobia. He demonized many women as “witches”, and called for homosexuals (or “sodomites” as he called them) to be either completely isolated from society or eliminated from the human community. He thus became a major exponent of what historian Robert Moore has called “the persecuting society” of late medieval Christian Europe.[2]
On “sodomy”, he keenly pointed out the reputation of the Italians beyond their own borders.[3] He particularly decried Florentine lenience - in Verona, he told his hearers, a man was quartered and his limbs hung from the city gates; in Genoa, men were regularly burned; and in Venice a sodomite had been tied to a column along with a barrel of pitch and brushwood and set to fire. He advised the people of Siena to do the same. In 1424, in the course of a Lenten sermon preached in Santa Croce, he admonished his hearers:
Whenever you hear sodomy mentioned, each and every one of you spit on the ground and clean your mouth out as well. If they don’t want to change their ways by any other means, maybe they will change when they’re made fools of. Spit hard! Maybe the water of your spit will extinguish their fire.[4]
Bernardino is particularly regarded today as a “major protagonist of Christian anti-semitism”.[citation needed] He called for Jews to be isolated from the wider communities in which they lived; blaming their usurious demands for the poverty of local Christians. His audiences often used his words to reinforce brutality against Jew when the opportunity arose. His preaching left a legacy of bitter feelings that resulted in heavy trials for Italian Jews[5].”

 

[LightBound]

I’m sure a lot more people know about them, then not. And yes I’m using wikipedia for one. What am I suppose to do if I’m put on the spot having to defend him, if no one here even knows how to defend him themselves.

datinggod.org/2011/05/18/saint-bernardine-of-siena-a-personal-reflection/
" His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism and homophobia."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bernardino_of_Siena
“Both while he was alive and after his death (the first edition of his works, for the most part elaborate sermons, was printed at Lyon in 1501), Bernardino’s legacy was far from benign: of fanatical moralizing temperament, he preached fiery, intransigent sermons against many classes of people. His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism, misogyny, and homophobia. He demonized many women as “witches”, and called for homosexuals (or “sodomites” as he called them) to be either completely isolated from society or eliminated from the human community. He thus became a major exponent of what historian Robert Moore has called “the persecuting society” of late medieval Christian Europe.[2]
On “sodomy”, he keenly pointed out the reputation of the Italians beyond their own borders.[3] He particularly decried Florentine lenience - in Verona, he told his hearers, a man was quartered and his limbs hung from the city gates; in Genoa, men were regularly burned; and in Venice a sodomite had been tied to a column along with a barrel of pitch and brushwood and set to fire. He advised the people of Siena to do the same. In 1424, in the course of a Lenten sermon preached in Santa Croce, he admonished his hearers:
Whenever you hear sodomy mentioned, each and every one of you spit on the ground and clean your mouth out as well. If they don’t want to change their ways by any other means, maybe they will change when they’re made fools of. Spit hard! Maybe the water of your spit will extinguish their fire.[4]
Bernardino is particularly regarded today as a “major protagonist of Christian anti-semitism”.[citation needed] He called for Jews to be isolated from the wider communities in which they lived; blaming their usurious demands for the poverty of local Christians. His audiences often used his words to reinforce brutality against Jew when the opportunity arose. His preaching left a legacy of bitter feelings that resulted in heavy trials for Italian Jews[5].”

Well, I’ve never heard about this and when you make an opening post like you did, it’s common internet etiquette to post a link- even if something is well-known. No reason to be sarcastic about those who have no clue what you are talking about when you don’t substantiate your post with some facts or links.

Now that you have, I hope you get the answer you’re looking for.

 

[LightBound]

Perhaps, if you were to provide a link to the sermons in question or provide the text of the sermons in question, someone could answer you. As for me, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Exactly!

 

[triumphguy]

Here’s a good article that explains St. Bernadine in context.

datinggod.org/2011/05/18/saint-bernardine-of-siena-a-personal-reflection/

“The world of 1427 was a confusing, frightening place: as Bernardino and his audience firmly believed, the Devil was omnipresent and frequently had the upper hand; humankind was still largely at the mercy of the mysterious and capricious forces of mother nature, and, to add insult to injury, death by famine, plague, war marauders, unjust lords, or absurd accident threatened to carry one off at any given moment.”

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I have never read the sermons you are talking about, but all historical figures have to be judged in context. In the 1400s people’s understandings of homosexuality and Christian’s understandings of Jews were very different from what they are now. (Although in the case of homosexuals the Church does teach that same sex acts and other behaviors are objectively disordered.)

Someone being a Saint does not mean that they were infallible in all their thoughts and writings. It means that they lived lives of heroic virtue and that they are now in heaven.

I recommend that you find the actual writings of St Bernardino and read them yourself. You may be suprised at what you find. You may even be able to defend them yourself. But don’t make the mistake of thinking you have to agree with everything someone did, thought or said just because they are cannonized.

 

[JM3]

I’m sure a lot more people know about them, then not. And yes I’m using wikipedia for one. What am I suppose to do if I’m put on the spot having to defend him, if no one here even knows how to defend him themselves.

datinggod.org/2011/05/18/saint-bernardine-of-siena-a-personal-reflection/
" His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism and homophobia."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Bernardino_of_Siena
“Both while he was alive and after his death (the first edition of his works, for the most part elaborate sermons, was printed at Lyon in 1501), Bernardino’s legacy was far from benign: of fanatical moralizing temperament, he preached fiery, intransigent sermons against many classes of people. His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism, misogyny, and homophobia. He demonized many women as “witches”, and called for homosexuals (or “sodomites” as he called them) to be either completely isolated from society or eliminated from the human community. He thus became a major exponent of what historian Robert Moore has called “the persecuting society” of late medieval Christian Europe.[2]
On “sodomy”, he keenly pointed out the reputation of the Italians beyond their own borders.[3] He particularly decried Florentine lenience - in Verona, he told his hearers, a man was quartered and his limbs hung from the city gates; in Genoa, men were regularly burned; and in Venice a sodomite had been tied to a column along with a barrel of pitch and brushwood and set to fire. He advised the people of Siena to do the same. In 1424, in the course of a Lenten sermon preached in Santa Croce, he admonished his hearers:
Whenever you hear sodomy mentioned, each and every one of you spit on the ground and clean your mouth out as well. If they don’t want to change their ways by any other means, maybe they will change when they’re made fools of. Spit hard! Maybe the water of your spit will extinguish their fire.[4]
Bernardino is particularly regarded today as a “major protagonist of Christian anti-semitism”.[citation needed] He called for Jews to be isolated from the wider communities in which they lived; blaming their usurious demands for the poverty of local Christians. His audiences often used his words to reinforce brutality against Jew when the opportunity arose. His preaching left a legacy of bitter feelings that resulted in heavy trials for Italian Jews[5].”

First, let me say that your first post sounds like you are baiting. This may be the reason for you not receiving a response.

Second, your quoting of a single sentence from a paragraph would also look like you are baiting. Read the whole paragraph from your first link.

The first aspect to recall is that we are products of our time. Today, the things that Bernardine said about Jews or “sodomites” (as Mormando explains well in his book – see Chapter Three – the concept of sexual orientation did not exist in Bernardine’s time. He spoke only in terms of “acts,” both in the case of males and females) would likely strike the contemporary hearer as abhorrent. His sermons were riddled with ostensible anti-Semitism and homophobia. Yet, the second aspect to keep in mind is that he was responding to the issues of his age based on the pastoral and theological knowledge available to him. Though we, several centuries later, look back and see the concerns of his audiences, the subjects of his sermons and the tenor of the text to be terribly regrettable, Bernardine was motivated by a love for God’s people and a desire to address the needs of the Body of Christ in the 1400s.

Third, while wikipedia can be a valuable tool for general knowledge, I would not quote it as an authority. Especially when you see “citation needed”.

Fourth, you can read Saint Bernardine of Siena’s sermons yourself. Keeping in mind the time for which he was speaking and not projecting your culture into the sermons.

archive.org/details/MN5033ucmf_1

 

[HailHolyQueen90]

Thank you triumphguy, Mrs Sally and JM3!