SAINT James Foley?

[Jerurussia]

Is James Foley up for sainthood? This martyr to truth prayed the Rosary, which he said during his first, shorter captivity gave him inner freedom. James Foley’s beheading is right out of John’s APOCALYPSE. May God grant us the perseverance of the saints; and may James Foley’s soul rest in peace for all eternity with our Creator; and may Foley, if enjoying Heaven, pray and work for us here on Earth.:hug3:

 

[Mumbles140]

It is interesting whether his death would be considered martyrdom. I think it would be similar to that of St Maximilian Mary Kolbe, who was not initially considered a martyr of the faith (killed for hatred of the faith), I think instead he was deemed a martyr of charity, but was then later declared to be a martyr of the faith.

Does it come down to the question of whether he was killed for being a reporter, an American, a non-Muslim, or a Catholic? Does it matter?

 

[tabycat]

It is interesting whether his death would be considered martyrdom. I think it would be similar to that of St Maximilian Mary Kolbe, who was not initially considered a martyr of the faith (killed for hatred of the faith), I think instead he was deemed a martyr of charity, but was then later declared to be a martyr of the faith.

Does it come down to the question of whether he was killed for being a reporter, an American, a non-Muslim, or a Catholic? Does it matter?

No, it does not matter!

 

[porthos11]

No, it does not matter!

Yes it does. A Catholic who was killed for being an American does not of itself qualify him for martyrdom. For one to qualify for martyrdom, it must be because he was killed out of hatred for the faith. The Church has also accepted extensions to this in the examples of Sts. Maria Goretti and Maximilian Kolbe, where they died defending or exercising virtues valued by the Catholic faith, namely chastity and charity.

If James Foley’s death was out of revenge over American airstrikes and not because he was a Catholic, then this does not qualify him for martyrdom. If this was the case, but he was still canonized in the future for some other heroic exercise of a virtuous life, he would be more likely a Confessor rather than a Martyr.

All of this is determined only by proper ecclesiastical authority. This means that until the Church says so (by declaring him Venerable, if ever), we pray for his soul, not to him for intercession.

 

[thistle]

It is interesting whether his death would be considered martyrdom. I think it would be similar to that of St Maximilian Mary Kolbe, who was not initially considered a martyr of the faith (killed for hatred of the faith), I think instead he was deemed a martyr of charity, but was then later declared to be a martyr of the faith.

Does it come down to the question of whether he was killed for being a reporter, an American, a non-Muslim, or a Catholic? Does it matter?

Yes it matters. Simply being killed for being a reporter or an Amercian does not make that person a martyr.

Father John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary:

MARTYR. A person who chooses to suffer, even to die, rather than renounce his or her faith or Christian principles. After the example of Christ one does not resist one’s persecutors when they use violence out of hatred or malice against Christ, or his Church, or some revealed truth of the Catholic religion. (Etym. Greek martyros, witness, martyr.)

 

[Mumbles140]

Thanks for the excellent posts from Thistle and Porthos. If you’d care to indulge, can either of you think of how this would be different from the martyrdom suffered by St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe? Presumably, this man could have been spared had he renounced his faith and converted to Islam, and my understanding is that the translator he was with was released because they were not targeting their own.

To be clear, I’m not trying to make a case for his sainthood by cause of martyrdom - I am rather wondering whether being killed by murderers for the sake of their religion merits an investigation for possible martyrdom.

Lastly, specifically regarding James Foley, I think it is fair to see we do not know what he was subjected to in his almost two years of captivity - perhaps he did bear full witness to the faith, and as such, God has bestowed infinite mercy upon him. Sadly, we will likely never know what he endured, so we should all continue praying for the repose of his soul.

 

[thistle]

Thanks for the excellent posts from Thistle and Porthos. If you’d care to indulge, can either of you think of how this would be different from the martyrdom suffered by St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe? Presumably, this man could have been spared had he renounced his faith and converted to Islam, and my understanding is that the translator he was with was released because they were not targeting their own.

To be clear, I’m not trying to make a case for his sainthood by cause of martyrdom - I am rather wondering whether being killed by murderers for the sake of their religion merits an investigation for possible martyrdom.

Lastly, specifically regarding James Foley, I think it is fair to see we do not know what he was subjected to in his almost two years of captivity - perhaps he did bear full witness to the faith, and as such, God has bestowed infinite mercy upon him. Sadly, we will likely never know what he endured, so we should all continue praying for the repose of his soul.

As none of us were with James Foley during his captivity we cannot say what went on but honestly, in my opinion, this is not a martyrdom situation. Causes for sainthood are not based on speculation and emotions. If we are to believe those who killed him his death has nothing to do with religion. They made it clear they killed him because of the US air attacks on ISIS and that the US would not agree to pay a ransom to free him.
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems under your thought process that if a muslim kills a non-muslim then everyone killed should be considered a martyr.

 

[EIF5A]

Since a saint is someone in heaven, wouldn’t it be possible that he is there after thorough investigation by Jesus Himself?

Even if he’s not formally declared a saint by the Church, he could in theory have merited heaven by grace, faith, and works? We don’t know 100% why he was beheaded.

I mean, there must be many anonymous saints, right?

 

[horselvr]

I thought to be a Saint one would also have two miracles attributed to them ? I’m probably way off base.

 

[Mumbles140]

As none of us were with James Foley during his captivity we cannot say what went on but honestly, in my opinion, this is not a martyrdom situation. Causes for sainthood are not based on speculation and emotions. If we are to believe those who killed him his death has nothing to do with religion. They made it clear they killed him because of the US air attacks on ISIS and that the US would not agree to pay a ransom to free him.
Correct me if I am wrong but it seems under your thought process that if a muslim kills a non-muslim then everyone killed should be considered a martyr.

It was made clear that the decision to kill him was from the airstrikes, but would he have been detained and potentially tortured for 2 years if he wasn’t a Catholic. In other words, did his faith contribute to the circumstances that led to his death? Again, I am not saying his cause should be considered, but it made me wonder how contributing factors were determined.

My position is not that every non-Muslim killed by a Muslim is a martyr, but what about the Christians being told to leave, convert, or die? If they refuse to flee, as St. Peter refused in Rome, and are then murdered because they are Christians, is that not a cause for martyrdom? Make no mistake that there is a global persecution of Christianity - it seems to be acceptable in the political realm, and only receiving moderate acknowledgement when they are being murdered.

I want to reiterate that we do not know a lot of information regarding Foley’s time in captivity, only his murderers, his immortal soul, and God Almighty. Let’s hope that his faith continued to give him strength through the end, and that his soul may rest in peace.

 

[thistle]

It was made clear that the decision to kill him was from the airstrikes, but would he have been detained and potentially tortured for 2 years if he wasn’t a Catholic. In other words, did his faith contribute to the circumstances that led to his death? Again, I am not saying his cause should be considered, but it made me wonder how contributing factors were determined.

My position is not that every non-Muslim killed by a Muslim is a martyr, but what about the Christians being told to leave, convert, or die? If they refuse to flee, as St. Peter refused in Rome, and are then murdered because they are Christians, is that not a cause for martyrdom? Make no mistake that there is a global persecution of Christianity - it seems to be acceptable in the political realm, and only receiving moderate acknowledgement when they are being murdered.

I want to reiterate that we do not know a lot of information regarding Foley’s time in captivity, only his murderers, his immortal soul, and God Almighty.** Let’s hope that his faith continued to give him strength through the end, and that his soul may rest in peace.**

I agree.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Does it come down to the question of whether he was killed for being a reporter, an American, a non-Muslim, or a Catholic? Does it matter?

I suspect it does because otherwise martyrdom doesn’t make sense. It means to be killed for the faith. I doubt he can be considered a martyr given the circumstances of his captivity. But I don’t doubt he is in Heaven.

 

[esmac]

I think Foley was martyred for his faith and for being an American.

My opinion in deep terms:

The murderer (weed) who beheaded Foley did so for his own twisted radical reasons…but the demons infested in that murderer used the murderer to kill Foley because they recognized Foley as a child of God (wheat).

St. John the Baptist was not necessarily beheaded and martyred for his faith? He was beheaded and martyred because the demons set the whole thing up in a clever way using their “weeds” to make it happen.

It’s a losing effort on their part - those demons and weeds - because in the end it only brings glory to Christ!

The seed of the Church is the blood of the martyrs.- Tertulian

 

[thistle]

I think Foley was martyred for his faith and for being an American.

My opinion in deep terms:

The murderer (weed) who beheaded Foley did so for his own twisted radical reasons…but the demons infested in that murderer used the murderer to kill Foley because they recognized Foley as a child of God (wheat).

St. John the Baptist was not necessarily beheaded and martyred for his faith? He was beheaded and martyred because the demons set the whole thing up in a clever way using their “weeds” to make it happen.

It’s a losing effort on their part - those demons and weeds - because in the end it only brings glory to Christ!

The seed of the Church is the blood of the martyrs.- Tertulian

Speculation and also wrong.

A martyr is one who chooses to suffer and die for their FAITH and not because they are American. Nationality has nothing to do with martyrdom. If you die for your country you are a hero but not a martyr.
Foley was killed because the US government rightly refused to pay a ransom and they refused to stop airstrikes on ISIS. That has nothing to do with martyrdom.

Let’s just pray he is with our Lord now and not speculate on a situation we nothing about. Getting emotional and rightly outraged about his brutal murder does not mean that is a cause for sainthood.

 

[esmac]

Thistle…that’s YOUR opinion about it.

We think as humans think and not as God thinks…and you are not God…I promise you.

Only God truly knows.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Edith Stein, AKA Saint Teresa Benedicta is declared as a martyr.

Jews complained about her canonization in that she was not killed for her Catholic faith, but because she was Jewish.

However, the Church pointed out that it wasn’t martyrdom alone which was cause for her canonization, but her holiness and Christian virtues which she lived by.

So, in similar way, although James Foley was not martyred because of his Christian faith, if he lived a life of holiness and heroic virtue as a Christian, he could be canonized.

Jim

 

[thistle]

Thistle…that’s YOUR opinion about it.

We think as humans think and not as God thinks…and you are not God…I promise you.

Only God truly knows.

That’s not my opinion. That is the Church teaching. A martyr is one who chooses to suffer or die for their faith, and not someone who dies for their country.

 

[porthos11]

Thistle…that’s YOUR opinion about it.

We think as humans think and not as God thinks…and you are not God…I promise you.

Only God truly knows.

That is not thisle’s opinion. That is the teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

[porthos11]

Since a saint is someone in heaven, wouldn’t it be possible that he is there after thorough investigation by Jesus Himself?

Even if he’s not formally declared a saint by the Church, he could in theory have merited heaven by grace, faith, and works? We don’t know 100% why he was beheaded.

I mean, there must be many anonymous saints, right?

Of course it’s possible he’s a saint in heaven. But that’s not the question of this thread. The question was whether he could be up as a canonized martyr. The answer is, only if he was killed out of hatred for the faith. But yes, there are countless unknown saints and they are commemorated on Nov. 1st.

As for Jesus investigating, that’s way off base. Jesus doesn’t investigate. Jesus, the all-knowing God of the universe, judges.

It is the CHURCH who investigates, and she does so because of the authority granted her by Jesus himself.

 

[Mumbles140]

Speculation and also wrong.

A martyr is one who chooses to suffer and die for their FAITH and not because they are American. Nationality has nothing to do with martyrdom. If you die for your country you are a hero but not a martyr.
Foley was killed because the US government rightly refused to pay a ransom and they refused to stop airstrikes on ISIS. That has nothing to do with martyrdom.

Let’s just pray he is with our Lord now and not speculate on a situation we nothing about. Getting emotional and rightly outraged about his brutal murder does not mean that is a cause for sainthood.

I don’t think anyone is trying to declare him a saint - at least I myself am not (I had hoped my posts made that clear). But it is an interesting point - if multiple factors are present, of which hatred of the faith is one, does that make possible a case for martyrdom? Not necessarily in this case, but in general.

If it came out that James Foley was told by his captives that if he converted to Islam, he would be set free, and he refused, eventually to the point where they killed him (for whatever reason), would his refusal to give up the faith merit martyrdom?

Again, I do not believe there will be a cause for sainthood because of his martyrdom, but I continue to pray that his faith did not fail him during his captivity and death. I am curious, though, how gray the definition is. Must it be something so blatant as the Christians in the Coliseum or the martyrs of the English Reformation? Or is there some level of understanding that, had it not been for one’s Catholic faith, they may have been preserved. I think there has to be, as this was seemingly the case with St. Maximilian Mary Kolbe.