Saint or nutters

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We know that Saint Francis of Assisi was an amazingly holy man through whom God revived his church and worked many other wonders. I love Saint Francis of Assisi.

That said, I’m reading the First Life of Saint Francis by Thomas of Celano, and I have to say that the world today would see him as insane, and even a threat to himself. His family would have him committed to an asylum were he contemporary to today.

I guess my point is that it seems common that the holiest are at least a little insane. It reminds me of my studies in primitive shamanic cultures; the shaman were almost always at least a little weird compared to their people, in some cases so extremely that they had to live outside of the village.

I’m a little bit odd myself, so I can appreciate odd people; especially saints.

Thoughts? Any other saints who you think might be considered a little odd?
 
Probably anyone who steps outside of society’s boxes or compartments (expectations of normal behaviour) will be thought of as nutty or even completely insane.

Jesus’ friends thought he was going loosing it and going insane (Mark Ch3 V21) “[21] And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.”
Many of our saints exhibited behaviour that was nutty in their times and ours too often.

The following of Jesus and His Gospel will always mean one is swimming against the tide of society (sometimes The Church even) and their ‘gods’ (materialism often but not only - e.g. power) and expectations. “They have persecuted Me and they will persecute You” - it is almost as if (or actually that) persecution is a mark of discipleship and the following of Jesus and His Gospel.

Eccentricity is not insanity nor symptomatic of mental illness - although eccentric behaviour can be so bizarre or uncommon that people can think that it is insanity and symptomatic of MI. Eccentricity simply means to me that one thinks and acts outside the boxes and compartments of society. (and even Catholic cultural consciousness)…if one does so think and act, the label very often is either eccentric or mentally ill. Human labelling of others cannot create nor break the reality of any person and their identity. While it seems that we do love to label people in order to place them in a nice and tidy box in our minds…in order to remain in control it seems to me.

We seem to like stereotypes and put others into a stereotypical framework for the same reason…attempts to remain in control and in control of that most complex and astounding of God’s creations: the human being.
 
newcalling said:
We know that Saint Francis of Assisi was an amazingly holy man through whom God revived his church and worked many other wonders. I love Saint Francis of Assisi.

That said, I’m reading the First Life of Saint Francis by Thomas of Celano, and I have to say that the world today would see him as insane, and even a threat to himself. His family would have him committed to an asylum were he contemporary to today.

I guess my point is that it seems common that the holiest are at least a little insane. It reminds me of my studies in primitive shamanic cultures; the shaman were almost always at least a little weird compared to their people, in some cases so extremely that they had to live outside of the village.

I’m a little bit odd myself, so I can appreciate odd people; especially saints.

Thoughts? Any other saints who you think might be considered a little odd?
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Yeah, St Francis is a little extreme. I absolutely love him though, as he challenges me to get off my rear and give up my complacency.

Would he be put away if he lived nowadays? I guess that would depend on which culture he was born into. If he lived in the US, he’d be medicated and hospitalized, no question. :eek:
 
Gertabelle said:
Would he be put away if he lived nowadays? I guess that would depend on which culture he was born into. If he lived in the US, he’d be medicated and hospitalized, no question. :eek:
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Actually, probably not, since medical care for the mentally ill is so poor now. He’d be living on the street, begging . . . maybe with a sign, “Anything helps.”

.
 
I never read about St-Francis so I can not comment about whether or not he had insane behaviours.

However, I can tell you I am regularly told I am stupid for thinking premarital sex and contraceptive are sinful. So… I am not surprised society treated the saints poorly.

And then again, who is deciding if he is insane? What is their qualifications
 
“Men are in their essential personality irreducibly diverse: but sin blots out the distinctions and reduces the diversity: sin drains out the color of the man … all sinners look less like themselves and more like one another. Saints are intensely themselves. … It takes no more vitality to go with the stream of inclination than with any other stream: but to go against, as the saint does, demands immense vitality.” – Frank Sheed (from the Introduction to Saints are not Sad)
 
Reminds me of the bystander effect I think it is called where we tend to do what others do…and so it seems to me a societies’ culture comes about, our social expectations of each other. Saints are unique and often will stand/behave outside of cultural social expectations…and are considered different and therefore abnormal or ‘nutty’. The measuring stick becomes what the majority are doing, which in turn forms cultural expectations of behaviour.

The same applies in The Church. We have our religious expectations including of each other (what I call “Catholic cultural consciousness”) - if a person behaves outside of that compartment or compartments, boundaries, one will be an outsider - termed abnormal or ‘nutty’, worst term is sinner, and in the lives of the saints it is not at all unusual to read about saints being persecuted in some way by The Church.

Not unusual either for the Catholic cultural consciousness to be not what The Church teaches on a subject at all. We can see this with mortal sin. Rather often Catholics will say that something which is grave matter is a mortal sin. Grave matter is only potentially mortal sin with two other conditions required.
 
Well I read today that giving your life to Jesus and pursuit of your mission often means doing what other people may very well regard as crazy, silly, nonsensical, etc. I also read that is how Mother Angelica built EWTN. People thought she was off her rocker. But she had deep, abiding faith. Walking in that faith can sometimes entail rejection, humiliation, and scorn.

I keep trying to find greater faith. It is not easy to do alone. Maybe that is why Christian people ban together. So as to allow the Holy Spirit to actually work in their lives and reinforce their faith and commitment to the way and the truth and the life.

I pray that you will find the way.
 
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