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FaithofAbraham
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If He is an all-powerful God I assume He can do anything.
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
I’m not the one saying the almighty God can’t do this or that. So look out for your own board there, brother.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
I don’t understand how this doesn’t compute intellectually. If you mean that you can not understand it because you don’t want to then that is why. You refuse to acknowledge the Truth, and therefore it doesn’t compute.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
I don’t understand, how as Catholics we are not monotheists. Give me one example of gentile mythology?
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FaithofAbraham
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I simply don’t see any good reason for God to become a man here in this story, except for the fact that it follows the patterns of all other Gentile mythologies as the Zeitgeist people and other skeptics so proudly like to point out.
But I see a lot of reasons why God would want to reward David’s son who suffered for David’s sin and resurrect him as the first begotten of the dead, for whom the promise of Messiah to David was made before his brother Solomon was born.
What do you believe that means, first begotten of the dead? It doesn’t refer to Jesus being resurrected after the cross, since others were resurrected before him, like Lazarus. It doesn’t refer to being God’s Son, since God isn’t dead. Ever wonder about that phrase?
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
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holdencaulfield
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This statement leads you too a contradiction: If God could do anything that he wanted to (which He can) would he create a boulder that he couldn’t lift. Since God’s strength is infinite, He could even lift a boulder of infinite weight. But even more so if there was a way for him to create a boulder that he couldn’t lift why would he create this boulder. He wouldn’t. Why wouldn’t God send his son for our salvation. He did send his Son, because God wants whats best for his people.
Now of course these aren’t perfect examples of God. But as humans can we really understand God completely? The answer is no.
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abucs
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FOA,
you did not address - Jesus saying I AM. The reincarnation of a baby that God killed and then put into Marys womb should really be made into a science fiction movie. geez.
If the bible is the word of God, you think that might have been mentioned ?
You are ridiculing the word of God (as you beleive the bible is) by all of your interpretations and suggestions of how inadequate that revelation was. Also God, who knows all things must have purposely had it written that way knowing 600 years of followers would get it wrong. After that another religious group gets it right because of another book revealed by God. Of course we can’t challenge that book and say all of the followers of that book have it wrong - that would be unthinkable. geez.
Again it is so obvious you are twisting Jesus dying on the cross by saying, actually no, just before he would have died, God took him, just so it can fit with the Koran. Any basic reading of the Koran does not imply that twisted view. I made the point before that you could do that with everyones death.
Even if you allow that nonsense, the bible says Jesus rose people from the dead, and was also risen himself from death. That is a much more powerful story and witness than Muhammod - surely by any accounts.
You asked about the praying and crying before and i gave you an answer many, many posts back which you did not reply to.
Holdencaufield makes a good point in God being ‘love’. Love often causes sadness and we know in all of the scriptures God is sometimes being described as sad. In the human form crying is a natural reaction to sadness. Just as burning can happen to a bush, and a pillar of fire can rise up as a column.
It is wrong to say Catholic God or Catholic Son of God. Catholic refers to a church which follows God. God is not a Catholic.
Mary says that because of Jesus (in her womb) all generations will call her blessed.
Muhammad says that Mary is the most blessed woman by God. Why does God favour Jesus’ mother over Muhammods mother ?
you did not address - Jesus saying I AM. The reincarnation of a baby that God killed and then put into Marys womb should really be made into a science fiction movie. geez.
If the bible is the word of God, you think that might have been mentioned ?
You are ridiculing the word of God (as you beleive the bible is) by all of your interpretations and suggestions of how inadequate that revelation was. Also God, who knows all things must have purposely had it written that way knowing 600 years of followers would get it wrong. After that another religious group gets it right because of another book revealed by God. Of course we can’t challenge that book and say all of the followers of that book have it wrong - that would be unthinkable. geez.
Again it is so obvious you are twisting Jesus dying on the cross by saying, actually no, just before he would have died, God took him, just so it can fit with the Koran. Any basic reading of the Koran does not imply that twisted view. I made the point before that you could do that with everyones death.
Even if you allow that nonsense, the bible says Jesus rose people from the dead, and was also risen himself from death. That is a much more powerful story and witness than Muhammod - surely by any accounts.
You asked about the praying and crying before and i gave you an answer many, many posts back which you did not reply to.
Holdencaufield makes a good point in God being ‘love’. Love often causes sadness and we know in all of the scriptures God is sometimes being described as sad. In the human form crying is a natural reaction to sadness. Just as burning can happen to a bush, and a pillar of fire can rise up as a column.
It is wrong to say Catholic God or Catholic Son of God. Catholic refers to a church which follows God. God is not a Catholic.
Mary says that because of Jesus (in her womb) all generations will call her blessed.
Muhammad says that Mary is the most blessed woman by God. Why does God favour Jesus’ mother over Muhammods mother ?
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karens1234
Guest
What you say here makes no sense at all.
When Son of your Catholic God was dead, it means33.333333333% of whole substance/entity of your Catholic God was dead. So this strange “God” was once incomplete thus cannot be Jewish Eternal God.
Jesus was a Jew. He did not come to abolish the Torah or the prophets. We do not see him preaching Trinity in the Gospels.
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FaithofAbraham
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Zeus mating with a mortal and producing Dionysus, for example.
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FaithofAbraham
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Heck no one can even explain how God’s Word is God’s Son. What is the relationship, if the Son was always there as God how could it at some point come from the Father? That means the Son didn’t always exist with the Father, it came from the Father after the Father always existed.
So if you want to explain contradictions, we could start with defining exactly how God’s Word is Son of God here.
Rather than Jesus as Son of God just meaning he is a special child of God as all the saints and prophets were. As Adam and Israel were said to be, for example. Which seen that way, is clear as a bell with no contradictions.
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holdencaulfield
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Begotten means to be created of the same substance. Christ is the only begotten Son of God. So he would be the first born. Also you cannot take everything literally in Revelation, since it is a prophecy book and was written in code. God cannot die, yet man can die. Christ was human and God, his man could and did die. As for pagan similarities between Christianity and pagan mythology, we can find those similarities with any religion, and based on the vast amount of things that pagans made up, we are sooner or latter bound to wind up finding a similarity with pagans.
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holdencaulfield
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God has never and never will mate with a mortal. This is not even possible. Nor did this even happen, so I see no similarity.
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abucs
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karens1234,
it makes perfect sense. Jesus was dead in the view from our world - he was no longer breathing, having a pulse or using his human body (for 36 hours anyway), but nobody is saying he was dead in the non human sense.
I hope when i DIE, i am still ALIVE in Heaven. It is obviously a matter of language.
it makes perfect sense. Jesus was dead in the view from our world - he was no longer breathing, having a pulse or using his human body (for 36 hours anyway), but nobody is saying he was dead in the non human sense.
I hope when i DIE, i am still ALIVE in Heaven. It is obviously a matter of language.
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holdencaulfield
Guest
If Jesus claimed to be a prophet, he would not have been killed by the Jews, in fact he would have been welcomed. Just because the Son is begotten by the Father does not mean that he didn’t always exist. Because the Son is God, he always had to exist.
The Holy Trinity does not induce any division into God. To say that the Holy Trinity is hard to understand is merely close-minded.
I think that we would all agree that a cube would be considered one object. But it is made out of six squares is it not. God is one being yet he is made out of three persons.
Also consider this:
“God is love.” (1 John 4:16)
I think that we would agree that God is unchanging. So in the beginning if God was the only being in existence, who could he love. If we believe the doctrine of the Holy Trinity than we would know that from the beginning of time that God loves his Son. So in this case the Holy Trinity would always and must exist in order for God to exist. Jews reject this truth, because they see the Holy Trinity as dividing God. We all know that God cannot be divided, and the Holy Trinity does not do this. Do the six squares divide the cube. No!
“it does not divide the divine unity” (CCC 255)
“The Trinity is One” (CCC 253)
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holdencaulfield
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Thank you
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FaithofAbraham
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I touched on it. Jesus was talking about being greater than Abraham as his High Priest, not about being God.
John 8:53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Hebrews 5:4-6 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
John 8:55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
Hebrews 5:11-14 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Hebrews 7:1-2 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
As Jesus was born from Mary without need for mother or father, because he was resurrected into Mary. Having already been procreated the natural way with David and Bathsheba before he died as a child.
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
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FaithofAbraham
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Gos isn’t dead though. Who does “of the dead” refer to?
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
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holdencaulfield
Guest
FoA:
That’s nice that you can quote the Bible. However you have missed the purpose of quoting. You must keep something in context. The Bible says that Jesus Christ was greater than Abraham. He is. Christ is God who is also greater than Abraham. Finally you really have no knowledge of the Old Testament then. I Am is God’s personal name, when Christ said it he was not saying I am greater than Abraham, he was saying that he was and is God. This is why the people who were all Jews tried to kill him.
That’s nice that you can quote the Bible. However you have missed the purpose of quoting. You must keep something in context. The Bible says that Jesus Christ was greater than Abraham. He is. Christ is God who is also greater than Abraham. Finally you really have no knowledge of the Old Testament then. I Am is God’s personal name, when Christ said it he was not saying I am greater than Abraham, he was saying that he was and is God. This is why the people who were all Jews tried to kill him.
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FaithofAbraham
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Really?
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
How did the Son come out of the Father at some point? Before that point, there would only be 2/3 God. What makes Son of God the Son if it is always supposed to exist eternally with the Father as the one Trinity God?
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holdencaulfield
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No however, Christ did die, but not in the sense that he no longer existed. He died as a human, not as God.
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