Saint Paul and Islam

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FaithofAbraham said:
I see it all bashing of the Quran on the same issues apparent in the Bible, like not repeating every detail (Paul/Malachi) or violence (Joshua for Isaac’s promise/Mohammed for Ishmael’s promise) as a hypocritical double standard that lacks a good deal of honesty one might expect from those who suppose themselves to be Christians following after Jesus.
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This may be one of the few things I agree with you on. Although I don’t agree with your religion, I am glad you at least believe in God. I think the “Non-Catholic Religions” Forum as become a place for people of all religions to really just bash each other’s faith. I think it is wrong and un-Christian.
Some need to step off and take a reality check.
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I agree.
 
Saying someone bashes your religion just because of disagreement is a cheap shot in itself. I think we have been above cheap shot around here so that’s not even worth commenting about.

To the Christians, it’s already cheap shot to say that Paul hijacked Chritianity and that he was not an apostle and that he taught differently from what Jesus taught.

Just because you cannot explain Paul’s teaching does not mean that he was not a follower of Jesus. To say that he was not a follower is simply avoiding the issues themselves which is simply cheap shot on the part of participating Muslims here.

This thread has gone to umpteen pages, and none of the Muslim posters have been able to point out which Paul’s teaching is not in line with the Gospel. So I don’t think that’s the way to debate.

The twelve apostles of Jesus and his later followers were not understood by Mohammad and I stand on this statement. I think he was a creep for teaching and decieving people on what true Christianity is. I believe he was ignorant on this and so it was not really decieving, but the result nevertheless like he was decieving. I don’t mind he disagreed but to distort Christianity is another thing altogether. So how can Mohammad be a prophet that one can trust?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
I see it all bashing of the Quran on the same issues apparent in the Bible, like not repeating every detail (Paul/Malachi) or violence (Joshua for Isaac’s promise/Mohammed for Ishmael’s promise) as a hypocritical double standard that lacks a good deal of honesty one might expect from those who suppose themselves to be Christians following after Jesus.
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Why double standards? Muslims think the Bible is corrupted and cannot be believed, they bash the Trinity and accuse us of being polytheists, they accuse us of making Jesus into a “god”, they deny or distort Jesus’ salvific death and resurrection and tell us they didn’t happen as we believe, because the Quran states differently. So it’s okay for them to criticise our faith, but the same standards do not apply to us. Very convenient!

You want no criticism but don’t offer any adequate defense either except by bashing other’s religious beliefs.

As for the Quran, it’s full of errors, inconsistencies, contradictions and absurdities, plus lots of verses promoting violence and intolerance against non-Muslims.
I am a lot of things but I don’t go after cheap shots and dishonest tactics while debating.

And, the hypocrisy also goes to Christians try to force Hadith on me yet I don’t force apocrypha on them. Hatred of Islam is causing some here to be lousy Christians in my opinion.
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You’re comparing apples to oranges! The Church does not accept the gnostic gospels as valid. If it did, and I didn’t, then you could accuse me of hypocrisy if you like, but the hadith on the other hand are accepted by Islamic scholars as genuine.

As for being a lousy Christian, I’m just defending my faith against one that wants to destroy all other forms of government and religions and wants to install itself as master of the world, who is committing acts of atrocity against non-Muslims on a daily basis, who would kill me or make me a dhimmi, force me to wear Islamic clothes, whose followers would rape me and make me their sex slave and beat me, who would deny me my God given gift of free will or the freedoms I enjoy under a democracy. Is it any wonder that I hate this oppressor???:mad:
Some need to step off and take a reality check.
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Muslims are the ones that need the reality check! Ask any ex-Muslim why they left Islam and they’ll tell you that: We came to see that Islam is a hoax, an imperialistic ideology, disguised as religion, invented by a narcissist for his own personal gains."

Why do Muslims continue to ignore the evil that Muhammad has done and keep believing in him??? Every time we ask, we get no answer except that pretty soon one declares him to be the best of all creations and a mercy to mankind! :rolleyes:

Vickie
 
Booklover said:
You’re comparing apples to oranges! The Church does not accept the gnostic gospels as valid. If it did, and I didn’t, then you could accuse me of hypocrisy if you like, but the hadith on the other hand are accepted by Islamic scholars as genuine.
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There are different sects and thoughts in Islam just as in Christianity. You expect me to accept everything that has an Islam tag slapped on it but you don’t accept Mormon and everything that has a Christianity tag on it. That’s a double standard and hypocrisy.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
There are different sects and thoughts in Islam just as in Christianity. You expect me to accept everything that has an Islam tag slapped on it but you don’t accept Mormon and everything that has a Christianity tag on it. That’s a double standard and hypocrisy.
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Tu quoque! I believe what the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Mormonism is not a part of our Church!

Vickie 😛
 
FaithofAbraham said:
There are different sects and thoughts in Islam just as in Christianity. You expect me to accept everything that has an Islam tag slapped on it but you don’t accept Mormon and everything that has a Christianity tag on it. That’s a double standard and hypocrisy.
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Wearing the tag but with a content not in accordance with the tag is even more hypocrite and makes people like you call innocent people hypocrite, which is… an error! Errare humanum est, as I told you!
 
holdencaulfield said:
This may be one of the few things I agree with you on. Although I don’t agree with your religion, I am glad you at least believe in God. I think the “Non-Catholic Religions” Forum as become a place for people of all religions to really just bash each other’s faith. I think it is wrong and un-Christian.
I agree.
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So do I.
 
Reuben_J said:
Saying someone bashes your religion just because of disagreement is a cheap shot in itself. I think we have been above cheap shot around here so that’s not even worth commenting about.
To the Christians, it’s already cheap shot to say that Paul hijacked Chritianity and that he was not an apostle and that he taught differently from what Jesus taught.
As for bashing, I think some arguments from us were done in a not so kind way, even using insults such as, “What a creep!”
I don’t find this very Christian in spirit!
As for this accusation, does it actually come from some Muslims?
Where did you find it?
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Lapell said:
Wearing the tag but with a content not in accordance with the tag is even more hypocrite and makes people like you call innocent people hypocrite, which is… an error! Errare humanum est, as I told you!
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A lot of Muslims don’t accept Hadith though, I said all along I don’t. Some Christians complain that they wish Muslims were more moderate and accepting of Jesus, then cry when Muslims do it because they miss having an enemy to fight with.
 
Lapell said:
Well, you trust Muhammed’s, and those of the people who put Allah’s messages to Muhammed into handwriting, don’t you?
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Muslims don’t want to believe that the evil deeds recorded by Muhammad’s own followers are true!

Vickie
 
Lapell said:
Well, you trust Muhammed’s, and those of the people who put Allah’s messages to Muhammed into handwriting, don’t you?
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I don’t like to trust anything until I examine it. If the Quran or Bible ever come up short I’ll abandon them too.
 
Booklover said:
Muslims don’t want to believe that the evil deeds recorded by Muhammad’s own followers are true!

Vickie
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Christians don’t want to believe Jesus killed his playmate in a temper tantrum! :dancing:

So what.
 
With all due respect to Booklover, Muhammed was living among polytheists when he began to receive private revelations form someone whom he came to believe to be the angel Gabriel, and he thought it to be his mission received from Allah Himself to spread this religion. He encountered great opposition among his people, they sought to kill him many times, so as to use swords, the first Muslims had kind of no choice, it was either them or the enemy! No quarters! Was it meant to be used against peaceful people also, I don’t know. But some of his followers might have had the mind of a conquerer who wouldn’t mind hurt anybody for their own interest and maybe even just for fun. I don’t believe all Muslims were like that then, far from it. Did these conquest-minded Muslims have their say on parts of the Koran and/or its interpretation? I believe it’s possible. And this too could have led to what has been happening in the Muslim world for some time, could it not?
 
FaithofAbraham said:
A lot of Muslims don’t accept Hadith though, I said all along I don’t. Some Christians complain that they wish Muslims were more moderate and accepting of Jesus, then cry when Muslims do it because they miss having an enemy to fight with.
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Well, I don’t think that way! And I am satisfied that you only said “Some Christians”. It might be true…😉
 
Lapell said:
With all due respect to Booklover, Muhammed was living among polytheists when he began to receive private revelations form someone whom he came to believe to be the angel Gabriel, and he thought it to be his mission received from Allah Himself to spread this religion. He encountered great opposition among his people, they sought to kill him many times, so as to use swords, the first Muslims had kind of no choice, it was either them or the enemy! No quarters! Was it meant to be used against peaceful people also, I don’t know. But some of his followers might have had the mind of a conquerer who wouldn’t mind hurt anybody for their own interest and maybe even just for fun. I don’t believe all Muslims were like that then, far from it. Did these conquest-minded Muslims have their say on parts of the Koran and/or its interpretation? I believe it’s possible. And this too could have led to what has been happening in the Muslim world for some time, could it not?
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Were Muhammad’s wars in self defense?

Vickie
 
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