Saints and doormats

[JoyToBeCatholic]

I’ve heard people say everyone is called to holiness but that Christians aren’t supposed to be “doormats”. But when you read the lives of saints, didn’t many of them behave that way? In their silence weren’t they encouraging the sinful actions of others?

Are we all called to exercise extraordinary virtue in all circumstances? If we are all called to be saints, does this mean we are all called to exercise extraordinary virtue? Is everyone continually being given the necessary graces? How does one “cooperate” with these graces? Or, does one have to be mature in their love of God before being able to do so (being perfected).

Isn’t the practice of exercising extraordinary virtue useless if it isn’t successful? For instance, one may have, as their motive, to please God, but whenever he tries to tolerate something he grows impatient, or harbors resentment or anger from having tolerated so much. Should one try to come down to a more “practical” level (for lack of a better word) and speak up about the injustice being done to them? Or should they continue to try tolerating adversity despite the imperfections that arise from having done so, in the hopes that they will someday realize the way to cooperate with the grace God is giving them.

I’m sorry there are so many questions. I’ve tried wording it many different ways for lack of a better way to express it. I’m horrible at articulating things!

Thanks,
~donna

 

[Mark_Robert]

When Jesus told us to “turn the other cheek”, he was discouraging revenge or retaliation against our brother. You hit me so I hit you back. Only forgiveness can stop the vicious cycle of revenge, retaliation, and war. Just think how vendettas on a personal and societal scale have ravaged our world. However, it is not an admonition against social activism or righting the wrongs of injustice and evil. Even individually we have a right to protect ourselves from physical and psychological harm. In other words, we have the right to self-preservation in the face of evil. So if someone attacks an individual for the sake of raping or killing him/her, that individual has the right to use the force necessary to stop the assailant even to the point of death. What’s forbidden is to inflict violence for the sake of satisfying one’s need for revenge.

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Thank you Mark.

To be more specific though, I’m talking primarily about smaller-scale injustices and how we ought to handle those. For instance, I think of how St. Therese of Lisieux patiently endured adversity. My question is: Even though one may desire to imitate that, in practice, if it causes imperfections to surface, is it better NOT to try at all? Or better to continue trying and pray that God will provide the grace and teach how to cooperate with it? Despite the possibility, or probability, that it will cause resentment or anger in the person attempting this practice?

Thanks,
~donna

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

St. Therese, like many other saints, saw the little injustices in her life as opportunities to grow in holiness. She used them to her advantage. Since we are all called to that same holiness, ought we try to follow such examples? And if so, doesn’t God equip us to do so? Why then is it that trying to follow those examples can cause one to regress instead of progressing in virtue? What should someone in this case do? What should one pray for? More grace? Doesn’t God already send sufficient grace? Is love of God what is lacking?
~d

 

[Jenlyn]

Let see if I wrap my brain aroud your question…

We are called to live as saints. In doing so we have to put up with things we would rather not. There are times, sometimes many, where we fail. God does grant us the grace to do things but when we fail, as we often times do, He grants us the grace of humility. We learn that we are not all powerful. We learn that we are not really putting all our faith in Him, we learn our “wretchedness” from these failings. Through our failings God helps us to detach ourselves from our dependency on ourselves. With the knowledge of our unworthiness set in front of us always we become better at handling those unpleasant little problems that we face. So thank God for your lessons, smile at your failings and learn from them (you aren’t all powerful), pray for an increase in faith.

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

With the knowledge of our unworthiness set in front of us always we become better at handling those unpleasant little problems that we face.

Oh, I am aware of my unworthiness and wretchedness, although probably not as much as I could be; I’m sure there’s pride floating around in there . But constant failure leads me to believe that there is something missing (other than all-powerfulness).

pray for an increase in faith.

Perhaps that is part of it (?). I will do that. I keep thinking that maybe the saints love God more than the average person and that is what “empowers” them to cooperate with God’s grace (?) But maybe it is faith instead, or in addition to.

Let see if I wrap my brain aroud your question…

If you can do that, you’re way ahead of me! .

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Let me give a ‘for instance’:

My husband wants me to shine his shoes every morning at the break of dawn, before I do anything else (and no, he does not ). I see this as unecessary and something he could do for himself. Let’s say he squanders all his time selfishly and could do this thing for himself but will not. St. Therese would probably do it, even though it seems unreasonable, b/c she would see it as an opportunity to grow in virtue and she would offer her act of ‘obedience’ to God. Now, in my case, I would be more inclined to say ‘heck no’ or beat him with the shoes instead . But suppose I want to imitate St. Therese, so I set out to shine his bloody shoes every morning, but after doing this for a month I have built up so much resentment and anger that I am ready to explode. Am I better off stopping or continuing despite the inner anger I am experiencing? IOW, is the inner anger and resentment normal? Or is this ‘obedience’ not even seen as the perfect offering that Therese would have made b/c of the inner feelings? Is it pointless to keep shining the shoes now that I realize I am harboring resentment? Or should I try to find a way to keep shining them without resentment? Like, try to see it as doing it for Jesus (not that he wore shoes ) even though he wouldn’t ask me to do that (or would he?).

Am I just making this more confusing?:ehh:
~d

 

[Jenlyn]

It’s such a challenge to be a saint. Don’t you think?

May I suggests ST. John of the Cross’s book “A Dark Night of the Soul?” He breaks down the 7 capital sings in the beginning of the book.

Spiritual Pride:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn_3.htm

Spiritual Avarice:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn_4.htm

Spritual Lust:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn_5.htm

Spiritual Anger:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn_6.htm

Spiritual Anger:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn_7.htm

Spiritual Evny and Sloth:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn_8.htm

The entire book can be found here free:
carmelite.com/saints/john/works/dn.htm

I don’t know which one you are having problems with but so I posted them all. Plus the book, if you are so interested in reading it. I took notes as read it. It really helped me in putting things together. He talks about what the signs are and then how a saint would live them instead.

But constant failure leads me to believe that there is something missing

BUT… it is in our fainlings that we learn, that we change. Don’t short change your failures. We fail yes, but don’t worry. God doesn’t want to us to worry. He LOVES us. Meditate on that. How can we not be saints by the Love He has for us. We should do the best we can. One step at a time. Set a goal not to do one thing. If you succeed, praise God and if you don’t, still praise Him. He loves us, don’t worry. He is there, right next to you always cheering you on and picking you up when you fall.

 

[Jenlyn]

Now, in my case, I would be more inclined to say ‘heck no’ or beat him with the shoes instead

Sorry but that was funny. I’d probably do the same thing! But that would NOT be what St. Theresa would do. She would do it and then move over one of her sacrifice beads. She also did those things out of love for God. It was done out love which is where, the shoe throwers falls short. We do it because we think that it’s what’s God wants. God says to be obedient so we HAVE to do it. But if we do it out of love for God, then we don’t get angry and frustrated and harbour resentment. The focus is all changed.

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Thanks for the wise words, Jenlyn.

Funny, I was attempting to read St. John of the Cross last week and started having trouble with some of it (Ascent). I read Dark Night many years ago and I think it might have helped me out back then (?), but I was just a baby in my faith at the time (not that I’m not now - 7+ years later!). I think I will look it over again. I’ve been very drawn to his writings lately.

Godspeed!
~donna

 

[Evan]

JoyToBeCatholic:

My husband wants me to shine his shoes every morning at the break of dawn, before I do anything else. I see this as unecessary and something he could do for himself.

Maybe you could try doing it out of Love. St. Terese taught that it is for Love that we should do all we do. Jesus did not incarnate so that we might ask him to die for us, He did that without our asking.

So as a mortification, maybe you should shine his shoes without him asking you. To show you appreciate how he walks through his life with you.

Besides patience, maybe you should read up on the Cardinal Virtues. A little Prudence may lead you to shine the shoes the night before, or have a few pair that can be shined at one time and one pair set out each morning. A bit of Fortitude may give you the strength to resist your lower impulses. Pray for an increase in virtues, for they are the path to God.

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Thank you Evan. I will do some reading on virtue and pray as you suggest.

Btw, I’m looking through Dark Night and finding it to be better than I remembered. I think I was too much the beginner the last time I read it to even have a clue what St. John was talking about. Thank you for suggesting it!
~donna

 

[AdamTM]

I think that instead of calling them doormats, we should say stepping stones, and we are all called to be that.

 

[Jenlyn]

JoyToBeCatholic:

Btw, I’m looking through Dark Night and finding it to be better than I remembered. I think I was too much the beginner the last time I read it to even have a clue what St. John was talking about. Thank you for suggesting it!
~donna

I am so happy that you are enjoying it. I hope it helps you and your question you where asking.

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

Sorry to jump in on this, but I’m confused by this as well.

I used to do a lot for my family. I mediated fights between parents and siblings, gave my mom parenting advice, listened to phone calls for hours when I had other things to do, and tried to take care of everyone. I didn’t want to do most of it, but I thought that I should do it and offer it up, ignoring the resentment I was starting to feel. This was wearing me out, and a priest told me that what I was doing was actually harmful. He told me that I should do some research on codependency and enabling. By my actions, I was preventing them from learning healthy ways of interacting on their own. He also said that not only was what I was doing for my family not necessary, it was also something I should not be doing because I was trying to be the savior of my family instead of entrusting them to God.

I trust this priest, but was he wrong? If he was right, how do we distinguish true servanthood and going the extra mile from an unhealthy desire to take care of everyone, preventing them from learning how to take care of themselves?

Even aside from this particular situation; I’m still confused. I’ve heard that never saying “no” to someone is not good, but it would seem like it would never be good to refuse to serve another person. I wonder if maybe the difference is at heart that one person cannot say “no,” while the other person feels free to refuse but chooses not to…

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Hi Grace,

how do we distinguish true servanthood and going the extra mile from an unhealthy desire to take care of everyone, preventing them from learning how to take care of themselves?

I think the answer lies in prudence (?). It would probably depend on many factors, like, health, safety, etc. I think bearing things that are not necessary is a sacrifice, but like any penance, it is not good to do if it causes a risk to your health or safety or the health and safety of others. IOW, if shining his shoes means having to put off feeding the baby, it’s shouldn’t be done. I would venture to say that if it will cause resentment and anger then, as someone pointed out above, it isn’t being done out of love - and no sacrifice - no matter how great or how many - is pleasing to God if it does not have love as the motivation. I think this is the key to understanding servatude or sacrifice. My biggest failing in this area is that at times I succeed and feel I have the right motive, but after “shining the shoes” for a while I might eventually loose focus and decide “hey! this is ridiculous! what makes him so special that I should have to do this every morning and put off my own needs?” and then an argument ensues and inevitably I will bring up every instance where I had to put off the other things that needed to be done so that I could “shine his shoes” - WHETHER OR NOT most of those instances had a right motive. Now, when I am able to make the pleasing sacrifice (if indeed it is pleasing to Him) I have no intention of using it later as ammunition, but it happens very often.

The key to this must be to try to keep the focus on offering the sacrifice to God instead of seeing it as a sacrifice for “the husband”.

As far as enabling? I suppose the answer to that may depend on other factors as well - like, how serious is your service disabling the other person? I tend to think that our charity and love expressed in patient service teaches far more than it does hinder anyone. But I’ve often wondered how to discern where the line should be drawn (if it should) - hence my asking in the first place.

I wonder if maybe the difference is at heart that one person cannot say “no,” while the other person feels free to refuse but chooses not to…

Well, I don’t have a problem saying no - I have quite the opposite problem. But I think you are right and it may be helpful to ask yourself why you feel like you can’t say no (?). Anyway, we both have the same problem, it seems, though you feel you must say yes and I feel I must say no. But sacrifice should be a choice and not something based on feelings, no? Otherwise it isn’t truly a sacrifice at all but a giving-in to our own desires or imperfections. I believe holiness is a choice and does not come naturally; it is choosing to give glory to God in every moment; in seeking to do His will and not our own and in seeking to give Him glory in everything we do.

St. Therese said everything is a grace, b/c everything can be used to give God glory and for our own sanctification. When I consider all the little sacrifices (not so little, actually!) that she made, I recall the great joy she took in making them. That is not to say that she did not suffer in making the sacrifices, but there was joy and peace behind the suffering. The same of St. Francis of Assisi. He delighted in adversities b/c he felt more united to Christ when he was suffering - and so that suffering brought him joy.

This is what I’ve gathered in contemplating the responses here. Anyone can please correct me if I’m not ‘getting it’ . I want to make sure I’m not drawing the wrong conclusions here.

Godspeed!~donna

 

[Jenlyn]

Grace-
Your people personality is a gift. You are a truely caring soul that wants to help everyone. To say no to anyone would crush you because you know that it will crush them. That, I think is your perception. When you say no to someone, most of the time they take it quite well. Saying no then sets the boundries that are important in relationships. You are not a “doormat.”

You must remember that you cannot change the world. We are not here to change the world but to conquer ourselves. Through this conquering of ourselves we do in fact change our “little” world. To place such a heavy burdern upon yourself, is more than God wants you to bear. He does not expect that of you or anyone for that matter.

I think your priest was right. There was too much helping of others that concerned him. Did he suggest screening your calls?

You may think this selfish, but set a time for yourself. Each day. More than 5 minutes . Use this time to pray, read a spiritual book, read the bible, say the rosary…You WILL grow from this into the person God wants you to be. You will NOT be living as others think you should live…You will live as God thinks you should live. A much freer thought and life.

 

[Jenlyn]

Dear Donna,
I read today in a book that we need to channel all our negative feelings, immediately, to God when someone “bothers” (meaning our soul is ruffled, we are no longer calm) us. I’ve used it several times this morning and it is wonderful.

There’s no festering of bad feelings. Then we can quickly focus back our love, because we are calm and able to focus on what we are doing.

 

[Evan]

Here is a description of how to become virtuous by Father Paul A. Duffner, O.P.

He is describing an acquired or natural virtue that can be achieved by natural means, by our reason alone, and an infused virtue which is given by the grace of God at our baptism and achieved by reason enlightened by God.

An example will help to clarify the relationship between the acquired and infused virtues.

eg The virtue of temperance affords a clear picture:
A man who is habitually inebriated and away from the practice of his faith, may in answer to prayer, receive the grace to repent and determine to change his ways. With his return to the sacraments he has sanctifying grace and the infused virtue of temperance, but not the acquired virtue. The infused virtue at this point meets much resistance, because of the total lack of the acquired virtue. He finds it very hard to give up his usual drink, very hard to stay away from the tavern. But somehow he manages. Each time he resists the temptation he little by little builds up the acquired virtue, and each such victory merits an increase of grace, with a corresponding strengthening of the infused virtue of temperance. In time he is able to pass by the tavern without difficulty. We see, then, how the infused virtues need and presuppose the good habits of the acquired virtues, for the acquired virtues provide a channel, or cut a path, along which the infused virtues operate with ease or at least with less resistance.

The infused virtues, therefore, do not free the Christian from the necessity of acquiring the natural virtue by means of hard work,
but they give him a higher motive for striving, and a guarantee of unfailing divine assistance if he does what he can. Consequently, while the natural acquired virtue removes the obstacles that stand in the way of the exercise of the infused virtue, through the help of the infused virtue the converted individual is now moved and inspired by a higher and stronger motive toward his final goal.

See rosary-center.org/ll51n2.htmhttp://www.rosary-center.org/ll51n2.htm

 

[JoyToBeCatholic]

Thanks for that, Evan. Me thinks I have a lot of acquiring to do!

Jenlyn, honestly, when I get mad about something, I mentally put God “on hold” until I’m done boiling. I know that is wrong and I know I can do better than that b/c I do realize that the fact that God even comes to mind while I’m doing it offers a glimmer of hope that one day I will use that for the purpose of “channeling it to God” as you put it rather than putting Him “on hold”. There was a time when I would just get mad and have no thought about God whatsoever, so, the fact that He even comes to mind now is a grace and I supposed I ought to try to focus on that more.

Thanks for all your advice,
~donna