J
Jenlyn
Guest
I totally relate. There are good days and bad days.when I get mad about something, I mentally put God “on hold” until I’m done boiling.
Thanks for the link Evan.
I totally relate. There are good days and bad days.when I get mad about something, I mentally put God “on hold” until I’m done boiling.
God takes us step by step, and Therese was already far advanced spiritually when she made this offering as a victim. /QUOTE] Aha - this is true.
Hi, Edwin. Well, I was using the shoe-shining scenario as an example. Thankfully, my DH doesn’t ask me to shine his shoes (I’m pretty aweful at it!), but the circumstances I’m involved in are quite similar.What if your husband wakes up late and he’s in a bad mood?
Although we aren’t talking about shining shoes, your advice here is fitting. One of my biggest downfalls is that I stubbornly assume that the person is never going to change and I don’t pray as often as I should for them. I have tried to be more resourceful in meeting this person’s demands, but no matter which way I do it, I find myself being resentful.What about doing it the second last thing you do before you go to bed. And then, the Last thing you do is pray for your husband to God and thank Him for your marriage. Also when you shine his shoes, pray silently to God that you’d like your husband to give you peace in knowing that he loves you and visa versa.
We have since discussed the issue and this person has agreed to take on some of the responsibility, but this has happened in the past and what inevitably happens is that things get done sloppily and expensively and I simply can’t afford to allow that to happen. Health and finances are at stake and it sets a very bad example for others, as well as a risk. I can’t help but think (uncharitably) that these things are done in that manner for the intention of annoying me and leaving me no choice but to take over.
Perhaps as I see things getting bad, I should try to be more charitable and loving about bringing it to their attention. Maybe I am too quick to take over.
~donna
God loves a cheerful giver. If you can’t give cheerfully, then don’t do it unless it is a legitimate obligation.Let me give a ‘for instance’:
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But suppose I want to imitate St. Therese, so I set out to shine his _ shoes every morning, but after doing this for a month I have built up so much resentment and anger that I am ready to explode. Am I better off stopping or continuing despite the inner anger I am experiencing?
It reveals a need for healing on your part. This is precisely what you need to overcome so that you can love more perfectly.IOW, is the inner anger and resentment normal?
If it is an obligation, you have to keep doing it. But if it is all voluntary, then you must find a way to not be resentful or else drop it until you can.Is it pointless to keep shining the shoes now that I realize I am harboring resentment? Or should I try to find a way to keep shining them without resentment? Like, try to see it as doing it for Jesus …
We can be doormats, too. We just need to be welcoming. Then God will use us as doormats to welcome others into His Kingdom!I think that instead of calling them doormats, we should say stepping stones, and we are all called to be that.
I am wondering if you need to shift your attitude and perspective from becoming a saint and working out how to be holy and a saint in every circumstance, to working out what is the best for the other person always - for their good. In acting this way and for the love of God He will draw you to holiness.Sorry to jump in on this, but I’m confused by this as well.
I used to do a lot for my family. I mediated fights between parents and siblings, gave my mom parenting advice, listened to phone calls for hours when I had other things to do, and tried to take care of everyone. I didn’t want to do most of it, but I thought that I should do it and offer it up, ignoring the resentment I was starting to feel. This was wearing me out, and a priest told me that what I was doing was actually harmful. He told me that I should do some research on codependency and enabling. By my actions, I was preventing them from learning healthy ways of interacting on their own. He also said that not only was what I was doing for my family not necessary, it was also something I should not be doing because I was trying to be the savior of my family instead of entrusting them to God.
I trust this priest, but was he wrong? If he was right, how do we distinguish true servanthood and going the extra mile from an unhealthy desire to take care of everyone, preventing them from learning how to take care of themselves?
Even aside from this particular situation; I’m still confused. I’ve heard that never saying “no” to someone is not good, but it would seem like it would never be good to refuse to serve another person. I wonder if maybe the difference is at heart that one person cannot say “no,” while the other person feels free to refuse but chooses not to…
I have often thought this very thing. How I react is a choice. But sometimes I feel like I have no choice:But if you think the inner anger and resentment is “caused” by the other person, then you are mistaken. Contrary to popular belief, no one can “push your buttons” except your own will.
Yes, this is why I have had to discuss it with this person. There have been times where I have done it voluntarily, but it has become increasingly difficult and is now interfering with my own responsibilities. I simply can’t cater to someone’s trifling requests and ignore more important duties. I have seen many improvements over the past few days and we are at peace with each other right now.If it is an obligation, you have to keep doing it. But if it is all voluntary, then you must find a way to not be resentful or else drop it until you can.
Wow, I’ve got a long way to go!I just remember my Grandpa ringing his little bell. Grandma would come down from upstairs, walk past him and bring him a beer.
I agree, and btw, this person is *not *abusive, just ignorant (I think). Sometimes I think it *must *be intentional b/c I just couldn’t allow someone to do those things for me w/out being sensitive about how it is affecting them and everyone else. I am realizing that we are just opposites in personality and I need to stop imagining that what would motivate me to act this way may not necessarily be this person’s motivation. IOW, I need to stop trying to judge this person’s heart, or at least be more charitable about it. I tend to dwell on my own vices and shortcomings which, in turn, gives me the tendancy to look for the same in others.However, no one should tolerate abuse.
No, I didn’t mean to imply that I think all saints are doormats. But in consideration of the many ways in which they mortified themselves and humiliated themselves, it can be perceived that way. That is why it is necessary to consider motive in carrying out those acts or non-acts, b/c some people find it easier to just allow themselves to be treated badly in order to avoid possibly having to make a difficult choice. In my case, using the shoe-shining analogy, I thought it would be better to say nothing and continue shining the shoes b/c I was afraid of conflict. I knew that I would feel like I had to fly off the handle in order to get him to see that shining his shoes every morning prevents me from being able to tend to the baby when it wakes up. The first time I told “my husband” that I didn’t think I should “shine his shoes” anymore, he said I wasn’t sharing the responsibility that I should be. This was wrong, and it caused me to boil even more until I did finally errupt. It didn’t have to, though. I could have told him I didn’t think that was a fair assessment and to please give it some consideration. Then I could have calmly pointed out that shining his shoes prevents me from doing more important things. This person is not so unreasonable that, once brought to his attention, he would not then see that shoe shining is interfering with taking care of baby (yes, maybe he should have noticed this for himself, but he is usually “sleeping” while this is going on).I would not call St Jerome, St Ignatius, St Francis Xavier, John the Baptist, Maximiliam Kolbe, St Catherine, or Mother Teresa doormats. They all exhibited extraordinary courage, some even to the point of dying for Christ, but also in every aspect and encounter of their lives. A doormat is something for people to walk on, a saint is someone who walks with Christ. Some of these saints also exhibited extraordinary obstinancy and obduracy in pursuing their mission from God, and even when submitting in humility and obedience to Church authority did not waiver in fidelity.
Now my only concern is what is going to happen as a result of my husband having to shine his own shoes. Inevitable, the first day he “bought a new pair” so he wouldn’t have to shine him himself, but the next few days he did finally give in and shine his own .I am wondering if you need to shift your attitude and perspective from becoming a saint and working out how to be holy and a saint in every circumstance, to working out what is the best for the other person always - for their good. In acting this way and for the love of God He will draw you to holiness.
…Hi Meno, I think probably we are all grateful for a chance to sprout off…sort out…learn…etc.! I sure am!…
Several months ago, a woman approached me outside of church (of all places) and asked me for money. She said the food pantries in our small city were all bare and that she needed money to feed her kids.
I wanted to say no because I’m on a tight grad student’s budget. But I thought of the Gospel story of the widow’s mite, in which the widow gave from her need rather than her excess, and I decided to make the sacrifice to help.
Pretty soon, she approached me again with an equally desperate story, which she would repeat over and over until I gave again. Then she started asking for larger amounts. I thought of the widow’s mite and gave again.
I started to resent her regular approaches and snapped back angrily when she asked me again. This just produced tears on her part, which caused me to feel guilty and give again.
It got to the point where I was having trouble making my rent because I had given money to her. It was obvious that she was going to keep pressing me for money with stories of desperation as long as I kept on giving. I had to examine my own motives in the situation.
I also realized that – doh! – the widow in the widow’s mite story gave to the Temple, which is a form of giving to God through a recognized charity. That wasn’t what I was doing.
I gradually learned to say no to the woman calmly and (somewhat) lovingly rather than angrily. I offered her other forms of help such as information on organizations that could help her with her specific situation. And – surprise! – she accepted my response in a calm way and I haven’t heard from her since. I still pray for her at night.
I am definitely prone to co-dependent behavior and I am slowly learning to examine my own motivations in helping others. If I am doing it out of ego rather than love (EGO=Edging God Out), then I try to ask God’s help in discerning whether the act in question is truly helping the other person and if there is an alternative action that would be more loving.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to spout off about this.
Excellent point!… I try to ask God’s help in discerning whether the act in question is truly helping the other person and if there is an alternative action that would be more loving.
Hi there JoyToBeCatholic…it is isn’t it!..great tag!I’ve heard people say everyone is called to holiness but that Christians aren’t supposed to be “doormats”. But when you read the lives of saints, didn’t many of them behave that way? In their silence weren’t they encouraging the sinful actions of others?
Are we all called to exercise extraordinary virtue in all circumstances? If we are all called to be saints, does this mean we are all called to exercise extraordinary virtue? Is everyone continually being given the necessary graces? How does one “cooperate” with these graces? Or, does one have to be mature in their love of God before being able to do so (being perfected).
Isn’t the practice of exercising extraordinary virtue useless if it isn’t successful? For instance, one may have, as their motive, to please God, but whenever he tries to tolerate something he grows impatient, or harbors resentment or anger from having tolerated so much. Should one try to come down to a more “practical” level (for lack of a better word) and speak up about the injustice being done to them? Or should they continue to try tolerating adversity despite the imperfections that arise from having done so, in the hopes that they will someday realize the way to cooperate with the grace God is giving them.
I’m sorry there are so many questions. I’ve tried wording it many different ways for lack of a better way to express it. I’m horrible at articulating things!
Thanks,
~donna
A very important point from the quote below.a guarantee of unfailing divine assistance if he does what he can.
Quote:
An example will help to clarify the relationship between the acquired and infused virtues.
eg The virtue of temperance affords a clear picture:
A man who is habitually inebriated and away from the practice of his faith, may in answer to prayer, receive the grace to repent and determine to change his ways. With his return to the sacraments he has sanctifying grace and the infused virtue of temperance, but not the acquired virtue. The infused virtue at this point meets much resistance, because of the total lack of the acquired virtue. He finds it very hard to give up his usual drink, very hard to stay away from the tavern. But somehow he manages. Each time he resists the temptation he little by little builds up the acquired virtue, and each such victory merits an increase of grace, with a corresponding strengthening of the infused virtue of temperance. In time he is able to pass by the tavern without difficulty. We see, then, how the infused virtues need and presuppose the good habits of the acquired virtues, for the acquired virtues provide a channel, or cut a path, along which the infused virtues operate with ease or at least with less resistance.
The infused virtues, therefore, do not free the Christian from the necessity of acquiring the natural virtue by means of hard work,
but they give him a higher motive for striving, and a guarantee of unfailing divine assistance if he does what he can. Consequently, while the natural acquired virtue removes the obstacles that stand in the way of the exercise of the infused virtue, through the help of the infused virtue the converted individual is now moved and inspired by a higher and stronger motive toward his final goal.
See rosary-center.org/ll51n2…org/ll51n2.htm
this cracks me up, DH still has a dozen shirts waiting in a dry cleaner someplace in suburban Detroit because we were having this ongoing battle. He wanted his shirts ironed, I said they’re perm press, don’t need ironing, just hang them up, but he had this new job and wanted ironed shirts. I said so take them to the cleaners, so here was the conflict: if I pick them up and pay for them, that is admitting it was my job in the first place. If he picks them up and pays for them, it means it is just another business expense. Shows you how silly this battle became, nobody ever did pick up that last load of shirts before we moved. Now he works at home and wears golf clothes every day.Let me give a ‘for instance’:
My husband wants me to shine his shoes every morning at the break of dawn, before I do anything else (and no, he does not ). I see this as unecessary and something he could do for himself.
~d
That’s me!All too often however, we are prone to setting up our own idea of perfection and work towards that
I will try to keep that in mind. I’m a very mechanical person (externally, anyway). I like to follow the same pattern of activity throught the day, every day - very ritualized - so that I can fix my mind on other things (hopefully, heavenly things!). I tend to ignore what’s going on around me and just follow that groove, but in doing so I miss opportunities that ‘unfold’ around me. I do remember a period some years ago when I studied living in the “present moment” and it helped tremendously. To live in the present moment is to be aware of those ‘unfoldings’ and to choose love in every circumstance (God’s Will). I liken it to the “practice of the presence of God”, which I should refresh my memory with (letters by Brother Lawrence of the Resurrection -VERY good!).God’s particular will for us unfolds in the circumstances and people around us for one. It unfolds in the duties imposed by being Catholic. The key word perhaps is ‘unfold’. It is not to us anyway always something fixed that we can ‘hold’ but it unfolds in time and space. In other words, we need prayerfully to be sensitive to what is happening around us to ‘hear’ God’s Will.
This is what I question. I used to have peace and I haven’t had but fleeting moments of it over that past several years. I have thought that this was a spiritual “dryness” and it is exasperated by the fact that I have, many time throughout this period, abandoned almost all of my usual devotions and prayers. This is not to say that I don’t think about God and pray interiorly, so to speak, throughout my day, but reciting set prayers and things of that nature don’t seem to benefit me as much as whatever you want to call this other prayer - contemplation, maybe? Sometimes this prayer even carries over into my sleep and I can recall some of it when I awake. But it preoccupies me too much (hence the inability to watch things ‘unfold’ around me) at times, and I think this is the flaw in whatever I seem to be doing in my spiritual life.Peace is the criteria of the spiritual life. Anything that robs one of Peace of soul, emotions and mind needs examining and pondering prayerfully and possibly by asking advice
I agree. I have been looking for about 7 years. I have yet again been told that someone will get back to me about direction, but that was about a month or more ago (and not the first time I’ve been told this by other persons).A good spiritual director is pure gold in the spiritual way.
Yes, I thought that was a fantastic explanation!Here is the quote, by Evan, that I referred to in my last Post re the life of virtue and its growth in us…its journey in
We have a pile of those too! But it’s b/c I hate to iron and when someone gives DH a shirt that isn’t “wrinkle-free” he wears it once and it goes into the pile. I have a pile of mismatched socks too - I think the matches are somewhere in suburban Detroitthis cracks me up, DH still has a dozen shirts waiting in a dry cleaner someplace in suburban Detroit
You are certainly right; I am finding more and more that I am very self-centered. I am self-centered in a relatively “good way” in that I am concerned about becoming holy and serving others rather than on seeking my own temporal interests, but my focus is still too much on myself. It’s interesting that you were able to pick that up even from one post. Thanks for pointing it out with gentleness.I am wondering if you need to shift your attitude and perspective from becoming a saint and working out how to be holy and a saint in every circumstance, to working out what is the best for the other person always - for their good. In acting this way and for the love of God He will draw you to holiness.
By trying to discern, as Father said and well advised I think, to look into co-dependancy and enabling…and to do so for the love of God that you may better serve others in their interests, or their good.
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By being a servant in your family etc. for the love of God you have the highest motivations, however are you acting in their best interests, or what is best for them…and for the love of God. I think Father’s comments were wise. And I am wondering if you need to shift your focus…your perspective and attitude?..
How do we discern true servanthood…by being focused on the other and acting in their interest and what is best and good for them. Why was Jesus kind and compassionate to some and not so kind to others, because He could see what was best for them…for their good. How do we imitate Jesus?.. by striving to act always in the best interests of the other, for their good and benefit.
This lack of Peace can be due to many things…and I think you are doing the correct thing in seeking advice and that advice needs to ‘find a home’ within you. If not then continue to seek. Further down you state that you have been unable to find a spritual director. Dont upset yourself over this for The Lord will not let you stray, though it may seem to you that you do. I went many years indeed after my director died unable to find another. Now I do have one, but as I say there were many years when I seemed to flounder - hindsight at this point about those years tells me that I only thought I was floundering. If we lack Peace in our life…then the asking is to seek until we find it resurge in us. Life is a journey - a transit of time, many transits, journeys…hence be patient but persevering. Trust The Lord even when things seem all wrong, He will not confuound you.This is what I question. I used to have peace and I haven’t had but fleeting moments of it over that past several years.
Dont be concerned about abandoning your usual devotions and prayers…as you indicate above, you are still praying but not in the way that you usually do. What I did find myself doing in the past in times of consolation was compounding my devotions and times for prayer…and then when things got tough, totally unable to stick to them. There are times when we seem not to be able to pray in our accustomed fashion at all…then go about your duties, concerns etc. for love of God - that is prayer too!abandoned almost all of my usual devotions and prayers. This is not to say that I don’t think about God and pray interiorly, so to speak, throughout my day, but reciting set prayers and things of that nature don’t seem to benefit me as much as whatever you want to call this other prayer - contemplation, maybe?