You say it is the teaching of the Church… it comes from private revelations -albeit to some very holy people- and I know the length of arguments we could have about this theory but I would rather not.
I don’t know about other Orthodox Christians, but I’m just a mean mommy…just ask my daughter when I have to correct her about something. She hates to get corrected. Lucky, most of the time she’s a great girl!
In response to number 2b, you’re saying that we pray for the dead simply to comfort them and that our prayers do nothing else for them? That is just plain wrong. Until the Final Judgement even those experiencing a foretaste of hell are helped by our prayers as their state is not yet eternally fixed. We ask God to forgive them their sins and transgressions- not simply so that they can feel better having heard from us. We commemorate them in the Divine Liturgy for what- just for comfort? In the Church prayers are ever offered for the repose of the dead, and on the day of the Descent of the Holy Spirit, in the kneeling prayers at vespers, there is even a special petition “for those in hell.”
Mickey,
…but it’s still a good source for general Catholic theology). The only real difference I’ve ever seen is that in Orthodoxy the souls seem to be unaware of their future, whereas in Catholicism the general opinion is that they know they will be saved (although I’m not sure if that’s definitely part of the doctrine).I “got the impression” that you were giving the Catholic view because what you stated is in fact the Catholic view. I am aware that your intention was to state the Orthodox view, which is why I said that you unintentionally stated the Catholic view. What you do not seem to realize is that the Catholic and Orthodox views in that particular matter are the same.
You see wrong. No one is being “prayed out of hell”.
If anyone on here wants to have a full Orthodox understanding as compared to Roman Catholic understanding of life after death. I would recommend: **Life After Death **by Metropolitan of Nafpaktos Hierotheos.
I got my copy when I visited St. Anthony’s Monastery in AZ last year.Where can I find this?
Edit: Nevermind. I found a place to order it online.
So then what is all the talk about those in Gehenna who, through the prayers of their loved ones on Earth, are freed and sent over to the “saved” side of the middle state? This is always presented as an Orthodox belief on websites dealing with Orthodox views of the afterlife, including this site and oc.net. Both Father Ambrose and Padre Ambroggio have stated this numerous times. Are they lying?
Huh? Then why do Orthodox pray for the dead in the first place??? The Orthodox position on this seems to be less and less reasonable as I think about it.
No one is saying they are “prayed out of hell”. If this is the way you are going to keep depicting it, then you are being dishonest.
Purgatory is a post schism innovation.
I cannot wait to visit there. I hope that I can meet Elder Ephraim one day.
Whatever do you mean?
You ask in what sense do we pray for the souls of the departed. Why, in the same sense that we pray for the souls of those with us because Christ is Risen, trampling down death by death. The barrier between living and dead has been eliminated due to the Resurrection of Christ. Those who are departed are just as much with us and just as much a part of the Church as those who we see living on this earth. There is no longer any separation. And so not only do we pray for them, but they also pray for us; in the same way that you might ask your friends to pray for you and in turn pray for them so also do we pray for each other without concern for the separation of death.
Hm. This does seem reasonable.
You seem to look down on the Latin Christians. Why didn’t you clarify for him? Also, I do believe Purgatory is not a post-Schism development. I remember reading I Corinthians, The Acts of Paul and Thecla, The Martyrdom of Perpetua and Felicity, and Cyprian of Carthage, who talks about purifying fire.
