Saints: How Would They Live In Today's World?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JReducation
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jeanette_L said:
No, I haven’t. Is it new on the market? I just got Peggy Noonan’s book, but haven’t cracked it open yet, there’s only so many books you can read at one time…and post also. 😃
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s a brand new book; published by Doubleday in 2008.

It’s a great book. Author was John Paul II’s assistant since about 1967!
 
catharina said:
Yes, it’s a brand new book; published by Doubleday in 2008.

It’s a great book. Author was John Paul II’s assistant since about 1967!
Click to expand...
😦 You know now I’m going to have to get it. I just can’t help myself. Books and chocolate, my weaknesses. 🤓 😃
 
anamchara said:
I went back and read through a bit more of both your post and RJ’s. This is interesting and now has me curious about reading more on this subject. I’ve seen far too many accused of indifferentism, relativism. (Those are way over used terms on Catholic message boards) Even when the person is just showing charity toward another faith. I’ve been accused of this myself because I won’t spout at every turn “we are the one true Church, everyone else is not making into heaven”. No I won’t do this. I think there are other ways to guide people toward our faith.

It’s a relief to read that I am not alone in my thinking in terms of being non-judgmental, charitable, instead toward other faiths.

I’ll have to go and read more on this. Thanks 🙂
Click to expand...
You’re right Anamchara, the best witness you can be for our faith is to live a life that shines the light of Christ; words and actions are meaningless otherwise, sometimes even doing more harm than good.

We are supposed to be prepared to give an answer when people ask about the joy we have in Christ, not hit people over the head and then telling them we have a cure for their headache. 😛
 
Jeanette_L said:
We are supposed to be prepared to give an answer when people ask about the joy we have in Christ, not hit people over the head and then telling them we have a cure for their headache. 😛
Click to expand...
Oh yes!
Perfect.
 
catharina said:
Hey, lady - check out your library!
Click to expand...
😊 I’m really bad at returning books. 🤷

My problem is I get involved in several books at one time and then it takes me forever to finish them.

The library doesn’t work for a poor procrastinating, unorganized soul such as I. 😛
 
Jeanette_L said:
😊 I’m really bad at returning books. 🤷

My problem is I get involved in several books at one time and then it takes me forever to finish them.

The library doesn’t work for a poor procrastinating, unorganized soul such as I. 😛
Click to expand...
who’s the patron saint of libraries???😉
 
Jeanette, here are some suggestions re libraries.

First, keep your checked-out books in (more or less) the same place at home.

Second, see if your nearest “big” library uses the intenet to warn patrons about “due soon” books. (This kind of reminder is hugely helpful and these days, such is almost commonplace.)

Third (also via online) check your library’s selection through its “search” feature. This also allows you to reserve (sign up for) popular books. Email tells you when book comes in.

Now, St. Jerome, pray for us!
 
:rotfl:

Reminds me of a line from an old Beatles tune, “I get by with a little help from my friends”.

Thank ladies. All very helpful advice. 🙂
 
Jeanette_L said:
You’re right Anamchara, the best witness you can be for our faith is to live a life that shines the light of Christ; words and actions are meaningless otherwise, sometimes even doing more harm than good.

We are supposed to be prepared to give an answer when people ask about the joy we have in Christ, not hit people over the head and then telling them we have a cure for their headache. 😛
Click to expand...
Well said dear friend 😉
 
With a due respect, this is beginning to sound like a Christian Scientist reading room. LOL

Let’s get back to our primary focus, the saints.

Earlier, someone cited, “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” This is a most interesting quote, because the Biblical authors deliberately avoided using the quote that they preached, “Be holy as your Heavenly Father is holy.” In Judaism only God can be holy. Holiness is not something that man should aspire to, because it is easily confused as aspiring to be God, which many Jews of that time recalled as the original sin of Adam. Thus the early evangelists substituted “perfect” for “holy”. But when they preached, they used the word, “holy.”

This is precisely what the Lord called us to be, holy. Perfection would have been an impossible demand. Christ never demanded the impossible. Observe in the Book of Revelations that the angels sing “Holy Holy Holy, Lord God almighty.” John’s Book of Revelations calls our attention to God’s holiness not his perfection. That is a given, but not man’s vocation. Only God is perfect.

Our Holy Father Francis once wrote a letter to a superior of one of the friaries regarding the state of his soul. He describes how one is to achieve holiness. There are several striking notes in this letter. Regarding those things that impair our love of God and those who cause such impairment, we should regard as a grace so that that which may seem like a hurdle, becomes a means to holiness. We should not only accept it, but be grateful for the hurdle; because without the cross, the Christian’s journey has no compatibility with Christ’s journey.

He also orders the superior to be truly obedient to God and to him (Francis) as he speaks for the Lord, because everything that he taught his brothers he received from the Lord. Here again, Francis is obstinate on the importance of Christian tradition and the scriptures, because everything that he taught his brothers came from Sacred Tradition and Holy Scripture. Thus it all came from the Lord himself, as both are great gifts that God grants us.

In addition, our Holy Father counsels the superior to accept all evils that men do to him and not want anything else from them and in this to love them, because this is truly the embrace of the cross. We must desire nothing but the cross of Christ. He goes on to encourage the superior not to wish that those who treat him poorly be better Christians, because in this way they prove to him (Francis) and to God that they are truly God’s servants as Christ was the suffering servant. The should only intervene in the abuse of others, not of them.

He concludes by telling the superior that if he has done these things and accepted such ill treatment from those whom the world would consider to be sinners, and after they have exercised all of their ill will toward him, they should see nothing else in his (the superior’s) eyes but mercy, so that if that person seeks mercy, they will have found it through the one who has been persecuted. In this way, one draws the merciless toward Living Mercy itself. This is the measure of true holiness.

JR 🙂
 
That’s a lot to take in, not as fluffy as we always picture, you know, St. Francis with a bird or something.

Sobering, what his spirituality requires of a person make it there.

You had mentioned at one point that the Pope had made him soften his rule a bit, is this the softer version? :eek:

I don’t know that it is something that I am in tune with, if there is such a thing. I like to deal with people in a gentler manner, try to lead them to understand what God requires of them, but in a way that may be a bit more gradual, so they don’t feel it’s unattainable. It might take longer but I find the Holy Spirit is a gentle teacher, loving in his ways.

But, then I’m no Saint either! 😃
 
Thanks for making the distinctions, JR. Easily understood.
(Yes, 'twas I who brought up both terms, both quotes.)
 
Jeanette_L said:
That’s a lot to take in, not as fluffy as we always picture, you know, St. Francis with a bird or something.

Sobering, what it takes to make it there.
Click to expand...
What is most interesting here is how St. Francis broaches the subject. There are several points that must be highlighted.
  1. He is restates what he has already stated in his theology. Holiness consists in embracing the cross.
  2. The cross is different for everyone. For this particular superior, his cross was that he was being abused by some of his subordinates. He wrote Francis a letter to complain, because at the time, Francis was still the Father General of the Order. Francis tells him to stop whining and accept the cross. Francis does not tolerate whiners. For him, to embrace the cross is an all or nothing situation. There are no compromises.
  3. It’s also interesting that Francis does not encourage the superior to use his authority. He encourages the superior to teach by example. The superior is to look with mercy at the merciless so as to bring them to the knowledge of true Mercy. Real authority is not found in words or rules. Real authority is expressed through actions. In this case, the superior was being encouraged to show patience, humility and mercy. By doing so, he would get the situation under control. This is quite different from the way that many, even on this Forum, want to show Christian authority. They want the Church to give a show of force and they are unhappy with the Church, because it chooses not to use force, but action, just like Francis.
  4. Also, Francis understands the human mind. He understands that it’s much easier for the superior to show love for him (Francis) than for God, because there is a visible bond between them. So Francis brings the superior to a 180 degree turn by invoking the superior to show his love for him and by doing so, he’s showing his love for God. This is a really subtle approach to bring men to show their love for God and neighbour. Francis engages the person in a relationship with him. Then he reminds the person that everything that he has received from him actually came from the Lord. This ties in with how the Church does evangelization. The true apostle engages the individual first, then delivers the punch line. St. Paul does this all the time… He speaks in his letters about what he has done for his audience and finishes by telling them what Christ has done.
  5. Finally, Francis proves to be no lightweight in the spiritual life. He’s not the patron of gardens, birds and nature. He’s a force to be reconciled with. He is really the patron of change . . . change in the way that we see life and the things that happen to us. He indicates how we must see all circumstances as opportunities, not as obstacles.
This is a very sobering approach to the Gospel life and much deeper than what we want to do today, which is go to our mass, pray our rosary and see every non Catholic become a Catholic. This is deep stuff. This is about becoming one with Christ crucified.

JR 🙂
 
Jeanette_L said:
You had mentioned at one point that the Pope had made him soften his rule a bit, is this the softer version? :eek:
Click to expand...
The Pope made him soften his rule and Francis did. But then he suplemented his rule with letters such as this one.

This is one of his softer letters.

Observe, he does not put the man on the spot. He does not directly tell him to stop whining or how to run his friary. He simply tells him how to be holy.

It’s so interesting that Francis always refers to the superiors devotion to him (Francis). He knows that his brothers will do anyting for him.

As long as he asks them to do what Christ would ask, they will. In the long run, they will be fulfilling Christ’s command.

It’s almost like a mother who tells a child to eat one more bite of food just for mommy. In reality it’s for the child’s welfare. The child takes the bait and grows up to be healthy.

Here, the Brothers take the bait and become holy.

Francis is the perfect example of Christian evagelization. He reels them in by baiting them, not with hostility, but with encouragement and by reminding them of how much they love each other. The he slides the Lord in there without them realizing it.

This is why he is often perceived as being very gentle.

This theology, as you see in this letter is why the Church gave him the two titles:
  1. The Mirror of Perfection
  2. The Saints’ saint.
This is the kind of evangelization that he would be doing today and what we are to be doing.

Evangelizing through encouragement and through example.

JR 🙂

PS Even though the Pope ordered him to soften his rule and Francis obeyed. The Pope never said that he couldn’t counsel his Brothers according to his own mind. That’s how Francis got around the Pope’s “mitigation of the rule” since only a Pope could change the rule. Francis left all of these letters and commentaries around to be found. Sneaky little guy. :cool:
 
Holiness in action. Let’s pray for the Holy Father.

Pope to visit New York synagogue on eve of Passover

April 4, 2008

BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
NEW YORK---- When Pope Benedict XVI enters a U.S. synagogue for the first time, there likely will be an emotional encounter between a Holocaust survivor and the German pontiff who both suffered in the same war.

‘‘Both of us experienced the tragedy of World War II,’’ said Arthur Schneier, senior rabbi of Manhattan’s Park East Synagogue, which the pope is to visit on April 18.

The Vienna-born rabbi told The Associated Press in an interview at his office that he and the pope have the same mother tongue, German. ‘‘So we have a common language – at least in terms of meine Muttersprache, my mother tongue,’’ he said.

Schneier, 78, fled Adolf Hitler’s forces in Austria for Budapest in 1939 with his mother and worked in a labor camp before Hungary was liberated by the Red Army. He said most of his family had been deported to the Auschwitz-Birkenau concentration camp and died there. He moved to the U.S. in 1947.

The rabbi said sharing the war experience with the pope brings the two men closer.

‘‘When you emerge from that kind of tragedy with all the human lives lost,’’ he said, ‘‘it does something in terms of shaping your outlook and what you need to do to make sure that this becomes a better world and we don’t repeat the mistakes of history.’’

The 80-year-old pontiff is a native of Bavaria, whose father was anti-Nazi. He said he enrolled in the Hitler Youth against his will and was then drafted into the German army in the last months of the war. He wrote in his memoirs that he deserted in the war’s last days.

Schneier said the pope’s scheduled visit to the synagogue on the eve of Passover, which begins at sundown April 19, ‘‘is another tangible expression of his outreach to the largest Jewish community in the world outside of Israel.’’ He added that ‘‘the very clear message is that Jews and Catholics and Christians, we are in the same boat, we have common concerns for humanity.’’

It will be the first visit by a pope to a synagogue in the United States and Benedict’s second as pontiff to a Jewish house of worship. On his first papal trip abroad in 2005, Benedict entered a synagogue in Cologne, Germany, that had been destroyed by the Nazis and rebuilt.

Monsignor David Malloy, general secretary of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, called the upcoming visit to the Park East Synagogue ‘‘personal and informal.’’

Schneier has met Benedict twice before, at the Vatican.

When the pope and his Vatican entourage arrive in the late afternoon at ‘‘my home’’ – as the rabbi calls the synagogue – they’ll be welcomed in the main sanctuary by children of the Park East Day School and synagogue officials.

In what Schneier called ‘‘one significant, symbolic act,’’ the rabbi and the pope are to sit side by side as greetings are exchanged and psalms are chanted in Hebrew.

Separately, the pope has scheduled a meeting with U.S. Jewish leaders, including Schneier, and representatives of other faiths for April 17 in Washington.

Park East Synagogue is a modern Orthodox congregation founded in 1888 and located a short walk from the United Nations, which Benedict will address earlier in the day.

Schneier has led the synagogue since 1962, while promoting religious tolerance worldwide – including protecting persecuted Catholics – as founder of the Appeal of Conscience Foundation. He received the 2001 U.S. Presidential Citizens Medal for service to the nation.

The efforts of the pope to reach out to Jews follow those of his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, who became the first pope to set foot in a synagogue in 1986, when he visited Rome’s main synagogue.

‘‘It’s an evolving relationship,’’ Schneier said of Catholics and Jews.

Some tensions arose recently over a Good Friday prayer Benedict revived from the old Latin rite that had historically been used as an excuse for violence and discrimination against Jews. Benedict revised the prayer to address Jewish fears, but some Jewish leaders worried that the changes did not go far enough.

Benedict is visiting the United States for the first time as pontiff from April 15-20, stopping in Washington and New York. He will meet with President Bush at the White House, address the presidents of Roman Catholic colleges and universities and hold Masses at Nationals Park and Yankee Stadium.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top