C
catharina
Guest
Who better to make such an initiative of visiting in peace than one who grew up under Nazi conscription? God is so good. Blessed be God!
- Status
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
Thanks for sharing Catharina, it’s good to keep these things in our minds when we go to prayer.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
It seems I may have misunderstood the tone of St. Francis when he counseled in this way, I haven’t read much of his writings nor have I studied him, I’ve only ready a biography and a few things here and there. Guess I shouldn’t give those kinds of opinions until I know more.The Pope made him soften his rule and Francis did. But then he suplemented his rule with letters such as this one.
This is one of his softer letters.
Observe, he does not put the man on the spot. He does not directly tell him to stop whining or how to run his friary. He simply tells him how to be holy.
It’s so interesting that Francis always refers to the superiors devotion to him (Francis). He knows that his brothers will do anyting for him.
As long as he asks them to do what Christ would ask, they will. In the long run, they will be fulfilling Christ’s command.
It’s almost like a mother who tells a child to eat one more bite of food just for mommy. In reality it’s for the child’s welfare. The child takes the bait and grows up to be healthy.
Here, the Brothers take the bait and become holy.
Francis is the perfect example of Christian evagelization. He reels them in by baiting them, not with hostility, but with encouragement and by reminding them of how much they love each other. The he slides the Lord in there without them realizing it.
This is why he is often perceived as being very gentle.
This theology, as you see in this letter is why the Church gave him the two titles:
This is the kind of evangelization that he would be doing today and what we are to be doing.
- The Mirror of Perfection
- The Saints’ saint.
Evangelizing through encouragement and through example.
JR
PS Even though the Pope ordered him to soften his rule and Francis obeyed. The Pope never said that he couldn’t counsel his Brothers according to his own mind. That’s how Francis got around the Pope’s “mitigation of the rule” since only a Pope could change the rule. Francis left all of these letters and commentaries around to be found. Sneaky little guy.
J
JReducation
Guest
I was just reading a post on the Liturgy thread. Some posters were condemning the upcoming Religious Education Congress in LA. Some people were attempting to discourage others from attending the congress. Everyone involved in discouraging others had a different reason. Some didn’t like the topics for discussion and other openly posted their negative feelings toward Cardinal Mahoney and so forth all in the name of tradition and fidelity to the Church.
As I was reading I was reminded of this thread. And I asked myself, how a saint would respond in such a situation. I am reminded of Catherine of Siena who had serious concerns because of the state of affairs of the Vatican State, which had been abandoned by Pope Gregory XI who had gone to Avignon, France to escape the persecution of the local King in Italy. Catherine gathered around her a spiritually rich community of men and women committed to the Dominican ideals of prayer and preaching. She wrote Pope Gregory XI in their name. She begged him to return to Rome and take up his duties at the Vatican. Gregory XI was not an easy person to move. However, Catherine’s prayer and pleading moved Gregory and the papacy was returned to Vatican State as it was known then.
Observe that Catherine is not disconnected from the affairs of her Church. Nor is she a contributor to its decline. However, she gathers people around her who are filled with the spirit of St. Dominic, to pray and to preach. They do not publically criticize the Church or its leaders. Nor do they proselytize other Catholics. Instead, they follow the example of St. Dominic, the founder of the Order of Preachers.
They pray, they preach through dialogue and spiritual direction to anyone who asks for it, and Catherine maintains a confidential contact with the Church leadership. No one was ever aware of her position or her words to the Cardinals and the Pope until her life was studied for canonization. This is the model of sanctity and reform that today’s laity is called to follow. St. Dominic spelled it out for us. St. Catherine modelled it.
To understand Catherine, we must understand Dominic. In brief, he was a secular priest in Spain who saw the heresies and immorality of the world around him. For ten years he hid in one of the cathedrals where he was the prior and devoted himself to prayer and penance for the conversion of the Church and of heretics. He never went out on an assault against anyone.
At one point, he was asked to go on a mission into Italy and he found a Cistercian abbey where the monks were far from holy. Their lives were filled with preoccupation over material comfort and power over the people who lived around them. Dominic, who was a scholar, took advantage of this opportunity to PERSUADE the monks to recapture their original spirit of asceticism and contemplation. He was successful in his mission.
This success inspired him to found a religious order of Brother Preachers to preach morality and faith to the world. But the preaching had to be done through charity, prayer, asceticism and most importantly by those who were knowledgeable of theology and philosophy. It was not to be done by those who simply read a few articles or books, because this precisely had led to the heresy of the Albigenses.
The Albigenses were a group of heretics in conflict with Catholic teaching. However, the situation became aggravated by the ignorance of the secular priests in Southern France. The Holy Spirit inspired Dominic on how to correct error, by combining prayer, asceticism, community and scholarship. The Holy Spirit inspired him to make certain that all of his followers had the best theological and philosophical education possible, before they confronted heresy and that when they preached, they should be the kindest and most soft spoken evangelists.
Dominic appeared at the Council of Rome in 1218 and asked for permission to start his religious order. It was declined. Dominic did not hold it against the Pope. Later he was told that he could start the Order of Preachers (Dominicans), but they were to follow the rule of St. Augustine, because no more new rules would be approved for religious orders. Dominic accepted this with humility and a little disappointment.
In 1221, Francis of Assisi appeared before the pope and requested to have his rule approved. He was told he same thing. He could begin his Order of Lesser Brothers (Friars Minor) but could not have a new rule for them. Francis told the pope that his rule had been dictated by Christ himself. The Cardinals thought that it would not be a good idea to go against a rule that Christ himself had dictated. Pope Innocent III approved the Franciscan rule, which was the last rule ever to be written in the Catholic Church.
Dominic was present. He approached Francis and offered to join forces with him. Francis declined the offer, because the Dominicans had too many priests. Francis wanted an order where the focus was on brotherhood and community, where priests would be in small numbers so as not to take away from the spirit of the order. He expressed admiration for the vision of St. Dominic and Dominic agreed with Francis’ ideal to live the Gospel in brotherhood. They became close friends as did their friars to this day.
This is the sanctity that the Church needs today, where differences are celebrated, errors are corrected through persuasion and preaching by those who have the qualifications to preach and the advantages of one group are celebrated by another, as Dominic did when his rule was declined and the exception was made for Francis.
Here we have Catherine, Dominic and Francis all great reformers and all great lovers of every human being, capable of correcting error through kind actions and words and helping the Church to correct itself without calling out her faults in public. This is sanctity appropriate for today.
JR
As I was reading I was reminded of this thread. And I asked myself, how a saint would respond in such a situation. I am reminded of Catherine of Siena who had serious concerns because of the state of affairs of the Vatican State, which had been abandoned by Pope Gregory XI who had gone to Avignon, France to escape the persecution of the local King in Italy. Catherine gathered around her a spiritually rich community of men and women committed to the Dominican ideals of prayer and preaching. She wrote Pope Gregory XI in their name. She begged him to return to Rome and take up his duties at the Vatican. Gregory XI was not an easy person to move. However, Catherine’s prayer and pleading moved Gregory and the papacy was returned to Vatican State as it was known then.
Observe that Catherine is not disconnected from the affairs of her Church. Nor is she a contributor to its decline. However, she gathers people around her who are filled with the spirit of St. Dominic, to pray and to preach. They do not publically criticize the Church or its leaders. Nor do they proselytize other Catholics. Instead, they follow the example of St. Dominic, the founder of the Order of Preachers.
They pray, they preach through dialogue and spiritual direction to anyone who asks for it, and Catherine maintains a confidential contact with the Church leadership. No one was ever aware of her position or her words to the Cardinals and the Pope until her life was studied for canonization. This is the model of sanctity and reform that today’s laity is called to follow. St. Dominic spelled it out for us. St. Catherine modelled it.
To understand Catherine, we must understand Dominic. In brief, he was a secular priest in Spain who saw the heresies and immorality of the world around him. For ten years he hid in one of the cathedrals where he was the prior and devoted himself to prayer and penance for the conversion of the Church and of heretics. He never went out on an assault against anyone.
At one point, he was asked to go on a mission into Italy and he found a Cistercian abbey where the monks were far from holy. Their lives were filled with preoccupation over material comfort and power over the people who lived around them. Dominic, who was a scholar, took advantage of this opportunity to PERSUADE the monks to recapture their original spirit of asceticism and contemplation. He was successful in his mission.
This success inspired him to found a religious order of Brother Preachers to preach morality and faith to the world. But the preaching had to be done through charity, prayer, asceticism and most importantly by those who were knowledgeable of theology and philosophy. It was not to be done by those who simply read a few articles or books, because this precisely had led to the heresy of the Albigenses.
The Albigenses were a group of heretics in conflict with Catholic teaching. However, the situation became aggravated by the ignorance of the secular priests in Southern France. The Holy Spirit inspired Dominic on how to correct error, by combining prayer, asceticism, community and scholarship. The Holy Spirit inspired him to make certain that all of his followers had the best theological and philosophical education possible, before they confronted heresy and that when they preached, they should be the kindest and most soft spoken evangelists.
Dominic appeared at the Council of Rome in 1218 and asked for permission to start his religious order. It was declined. Dominic did not hold it against the Pope. Later he was told that he could start the Order of Preachers (Dominicans), but they were to follow the rule of St. Augustine, because no more new rules would be approved for religious orders. Dominic accepted this with humility and a little disappointment.
In 1221, Francis of Assisi appeared before the pope and requested to have his rule approved. He was told he same thing. He could begin his Order of Lesser Brothers (Friars Minor) but could not have a new rule for them. Francis told the pope that his rule had been dictated by Christ himself. The Cardinals thought that it would not be a good idea to go against a rule that Christ himself had dictated. Pope Innocent III approved the Franciscan rule, which was the last rule ever to be written in the Catholic Church.
Dominic was present. He approached Francis and offered to join forces with him. Francis declined the offer, because the Dominicans had too many priests. Francis wanted an order where the focus was on brotherhood and community, where priests would be in small numbers so as not to take away from the spirit of the order. He expressed admiration for the vision of St. Dominic and Dominic agreed with Francis’ ideal to live the Gospel in brotherhood. They became close friends as did their friars to this day.
This is the sanctity that the Church needs today, where differences are celebrated, errors are corrected through persuasion and preaching by those who have the qualifications to preach and the advantages of one group are celebrated by another, as Dominic did when his rule was declined and the exception was made for Francis.
Here we have Catherine, Dominic and Francis all great reformers and all great lovers of every human being, capable of correcting error through kind actions and words and helping the Church to correct itself without calling out her faults in public. This is sanctity appropriate for today.
JR
J
Joysong
Guest
:tiphat:
http://bestsmileys.com/crying/5.gif
There is nothing that pains me so much as to hear grumblers attack the Church and her ministers. Yet I doubt those who most need to read your post will see it.
http://bestsmileys.com/crying/5.gif
C
catharina
Guest
from JR:
“Here we have Catherine, Dominic and Francis all great reformers and all great lovers of every human being, capable of correcting error through kind actions and words and helping the Church to correct itself without calling out her faults in public. This is sanctity appropriate for today.”
JR, thank you so much. I needed this reminder of moderation in all things, including ZEAL. I have the most difficult time allowing any irreverence toward Church teachings to “stand” in threads. I do my very best to refrain from any personal attack but I do say clearly when I think statements made are really irreverent. Such statements open some kind of wound in me, a wound akin to pain at hearing God and His people mocked.
I’ve spent time today on a thread called “Why a dead language?” and hearing the NO Mass called a “Babel Mass” is downright painful. Who would mock the Holy? … and why? What is the point of saying “I really love the Latin Mass” by calling the NO Mass a “Babel Mass?” I’ve stayed away from all Traditional posts for about a week, to give myself a breather. My closest friends have said I’m a Hildebrand in facing attacks on the Church. I’d never even heard of Hidebrand but have learned he was a Pope (Gregory VII? maybe?) who couldn’t tolerate disrespect for the holy in any form.
I agree that the private virtue of Catherine of Siena, Francis and Dominic and of the visionary Catherine Laboure, not to mention Our Blessed Mother, is the truest and most humble path to virtue - yet when I’m exposed to words that mock holiness, I seem to be of the mind that to keep silence is to give agreement. Ditto re the “popular” attacks on Judaism and the Jewish people, always It seems I must speak up. We owe our Faith to God’s promises to the Jews. Who can doubt it? I guess this is a rant, but please, add anything you wish, OK?
“Here we have Catherine, Dominic and Francis all great reformers and all great lovers of every human being, capable of correcting error through kind actions and words and helping the Church to correct itself without calling out her faults in public. This is sanctity appropriate for today.”
JR, thank you so much. I needed this reminder of moderation in all things, including ZEAL. I have the most difficult time allowing any irreverence toward Church teachings to “stand” in threads. I do my very best to refrain from any personal attack but I do say clearly when I think statements made are really irreverent. Such statements open some kind of wound in me, a wound akin to pain at hearing God and His people mocked.
I’ve spent time today on a thread called “Why a dead language?” and hearing the NO Mass called a “Babel Mass” is downright painful. Who would mock the Holy? … and why? What is the point of saying “I really love the Latin Mass” by calling the NO Mass a “Babel Mass?” I’ve stayed away from all Traditional posts for about a week, to give myself a breather. My closest friends have said I’m a Hildebrand in facing attacks on the Church. I’d never even heard of Hidebrand but have learned he was a Pope (Gregory VII? maybe?) who couldn’t tolerate disrespect for the holy in any form.
I agree that the private virtue of Catherine of Siena, Francis and Dominic and of the visionary Catherine Laboure, not to mention Our Blessed Mother, is the truest and most humble path to virtue - yet when I’m exposed to words that mock holiness, I seem to be of the mind that to keep silence is to give agreement. Ditto re the “popular” attacks on Judaism and the Jewish people, always It seems I must speak up. We owe our Faith to God’s promises to the Jews. Who can doubt it? I guess this is a rant, but please, add anything you wish, OK?
C
chewchoo
Guest
i read this yesterday in hebrews 12 - consider how jesus endured such opposition from sinners, in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart.
C
catharina
Guest
Lovely, chewchoo. Thanks.
J
JReducation
Guest
There is nothing wrong with stating the truth. St. Dominic and St. Ignatius were two great preachers and very straightforward. However, it was not their preaching that won them the crown of sanctity, it was their love of God and neighbor. They never hurt another when they preached. Ufortunately, we tend to hurt others instead of evangelize.
It is painful, because it is beneath contempt. The saints often experienced this kind of indignation. Mother Teresa has been criticized by many Catholics and other Christians, because she prayed with Muslims and Hindus. Her critics are missing the most important point, SHE PRAYED. She gave witness to prayer to the true God by praying among those who do not believe. These people are not dumb. They knew that she was praying from her Christian beliefs, not their own. They observed her piety and her intensity as she prayed.
Those who want to push the Tridentine liturgy or the NO in Latin and have to stoop to call the liturgy in the language of the people by such an unworthy name, are far from understanding what the Eucharist really means. The Eucharist is the ultimate sacrifice of love. Saints do not defend love through hateful or hurtful words. Whether the mass is celebrated in Latin or Yiddish, it is still the same Liturgy.
Silence is not the behaviour of the Saints. However, education is. St. John Baptiste de La Salle, the great French educator, who founded the Christian Brothers always taught his Brothers to correct through education. St. Vincent and Louise also corrected through education, so did St. Alberto Hurtado, the great Chilean youth minister.
Those who attack the Jews do not understand the covenant. The relationship between Israel and the Church is undebatable. God makes the Covenant with Israel. Jesus is hidden in the Covenant until his Incarnation. On the cross and Easter Sunday, what was hidden in the Covenant, is revealed by the Paschal Mystery. There are not two covenants, but one. In its old form, the Messiah is inferred and promised, but concealed. In its new form, that which was promised and concealed is delivered and revealed.
This is why Pope John Paul II called the Jews our older brothers and sisters in the faith. If they are our brothers and sisters, then they are part of our family. If that is the case, they are not completely separated from us, but something of the Church does exist in Judaism. How can they be our older brothers and sisters in the faith, share in the same covenant and not be part of the Mystical Body? The Mystical Body has Christ as its head, he who was hidden in the Covenant and who fulfills the Covenant.
This is the faith of the saints. This is the mystical vision that John Paul II had of the Church, which most people do not understand, because they are too focussed on altar girls and the fact that he did not stop the changes in liturgy to their liking, instead of learning from the man how to pray for the Church and how to see the Church through the eyes of prayer, not the media.
JR
C
catharina
Guest
Very well said, especially the final sentence - and I thank you.There is nothing wrong with stating the truth. St. Dominic and St. Ignatius were two great preachers and very straightforward. However, it was not their preaching that won them the crown of sanctity, it was their love of God and neighbor. They never hurt another when they preached. Ufortunately, we tend to hurt others instead of evangelize.
It is painful, because it is beneath contempt. The saints often experienced this kind of indignation. Mother Teresa has been criticized by many Catholics and other Christians, because she prayed with Muslims and Hindus. Her critics are missing the most important point, SHE PRAYED. She gave witness to prayer to the true God by praying among those who do not believe. These people are not dumb. They knew that she was praying from her Christian beliefs, not their own. They observed her piety and her intensity as she prayed.
Those who want to push the Tridentine liturgy or the NO in Latin and have to stoop to call the liturgy in the language of the people by such an unworthy name, are far from understanding what the Eucharist really means. The Eucharist is the ultimate sacrifice of love. Saints do not defend love through hateful or hurtful words. Whether the mass is celebrated in Latin or Yiddish, it is still the same Liturgy.
Silence is not the behaviour of the Saints. However, education is. St. John Baptiste de La Salle, the great French educator, who founded the Christian Brothers always taught his Brothers to correct through education. St. Vincent and Louise also corrected through education, so did St. Alberto Hurtado, the great Chilean youth minister.
Those who attack the Jews do not understand the covenant. The relationship between Israel and the Church is undebatable. God makes the Covenant with Israel. Jesus is hidden in the Covenant until his Incarnation. On the cross and Easter Sunday, what was hidden in the Covenant, is revealed by the Paschal Mystery. There are not two covenants, but one. In its old form, the Messiah is inferred and promised, but concealed. In its new form, that which was promised and concealed is delivered and revealed.
This is why Pope John Paul II called the Jews our older brothers and sisters in the faith. If they are our brothers and sisters, then they are part of our family. If that is the case, they are not completely separated from us, but something of the Church does exist in Judaism. How can they be our older brothers and sisters in the faith, share in the same covenant and not be part of the Mystical Body? The Mystical Body has Christ as its head, he who was hidden in the Covenant and who fulfills the Covenant.
This is the faith of the saints. This is the mystical vision that John Paul II had of the Church, which most people do not understand, because they are too focussed on altar girls and the fact that he did not stop the changes in liturgy to their liking, instead of learning from the man how to pray for the Church and how to see the Church through the eyes of prayer, not the media.
JR
J
Joysong
Guest
Hi Catharina,
Here is part of an article I read from Fr. Corapi on this topic and it was very helpful to me. Maybe something will speak to you also.
Here is part of an article I read from Fr. Corapi on this topic and it was very helpful to me. Maybe something will speak to you also.
Carole
C
catharina
Guest
Thank you. Very interesting perspective from Father C.
I have to agree, engaging with such arguers does drive me nuts.
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
Hi Catharina,
Here is part of an article I read from Fr. Corapi on this topic and it was very helpful to me. Maybe something will speak to you also.
Thank you so much for this. I love Fr. Corapi, I owe him more than I can repay for his role in my conversion to the Church, he was a vital link in that beautiful chain of events.
I agree with him to an extent, that we will never change the minds of those who are intent on believing what they want to believe. Until they are open to the Holy Spirit’s leading and not their own agendas, whatever side of the extreme they reside in, they cannot receive from Him any truth.
I do think however, that what some of these people state publicly here on CAF deserves to be addressed by those who can handle the grueling dialog, only for the sake of those who come to these threads wanting to learn the true faith of the Catholic Church, as the Magisterium teaches, and these poor souls need to understand that the dissenters are not the only voice in the Church, nor are they the true voice, their dissent places them outside of her truth.
I understand Catharina’s weariness, I have had to take a break from it as well, I don’t have the emotional stamina to do this battle of ideas without coming to exhaustion, but a little rest is good for the soul, then back to the battle.
This goes to Chewchoo’s post as well, Christ has gone through this opposition himself so we may fight the good fight and not lose hope.
So, we all have our parts to play in this great drama that goes on in time, the Saints have given us beautiful models of how to proceed in our missions, whatever God has called each of us to do.
Thank you for your post, I love your spirit
J
JReducation
Guest
What Fr. Corapi is saying ties in with the spirit of St. Dominic. Dominic preached, he did not debate.
As I said above, he bagan his life as a secular priest and later decicded to join religious life. Now stop and think why a secular priest would desire to leave the diocesan priesthood to become a religious. Religious life imposes many limitations and obligations on the individual, that the priesthood does not.
For example:
Diocesan priests are already bound to celibacy. But not having a vow of chastity, means that if the rule of celibacy is ever dropped, they can marry. Religous would still be bound to a single life, because chastity means that they never marry, because they belong to a religious family. Diocesan priest have no such family. They live independently. They come and go as they please. They choose when they are to pray, relax, eat, sleep and the penances that they will do. There is not religious family to tell them what to wear of when to eat or what to eat or that they cannot go to a parish meeting, because they have to attend community recreation at that time.
Diocesan priests can own property. They can even hold jobs that pay them salaries, such as chaplaincies. Religious may never own anything, even as a group and they cannot receive a salary, have health insurance or retirement plans. Diocesan priests can have all of this.
Dicesan priests can make choices for themselves, like any adult and never have to ask someone for permission to buy a pair of shoes or to leave the house. Religious surrender their will to the superior and the superior surrenders his will to the chapter. They have to get permission to buy a pack of gum and ask for the money. They have to get permission to sleep in. They have to follow the schedule of their religious house.
Look at the Franciscans at Franciscan University. They were put in an uncomfortable position. Some students and faculty wanted the TLM and the superior said “NO.” The friars at the University had to deal with the fall-out, because the superior had said “No”, not because they agreed or disagreed with the TLM. What they thought on the matter was irrelevant, because religious have not thoughts or emotions of their own. When the superior felt it was right to have a TLM mass at the University, he gave permission. In the meantime, the friars were badmouthed and bashed, not only on campus, but even here on CAF. No one respected their Franciscan obedience.
This is the most noble form of preaching. This is what James calls faith with actions.
Without anyone realizing it, Franciscan Brothers at Franciscan University also preached a good sermon. They took the heat from the TLM crowd, because they would not disobey their superior who is the voice of Christ in the community. The voice of Christ is always to be obeyed. Obedience to the voice of Christ can be a sermon.
Only those who are ready to hear the sermon, will do so. This is what has happened at Franciscan University. Only those who are able to see the fidelity of the Brothers to their superior and their willingness to take the heat rather than disobey and please the crowds will understand the sermon. The Franciscans preached a darn good sermon on obedience. Like Christ, they were obedient, even though they had to carry a cross for six-months.
They practiced what Dominic brought into the Church, preaching through love. In the case of the Franciscans it was love of their Superior and love for Francis and love of their promie to God, to be obedient until death, without murmuring, like Christ’s obeyed on the Cross.
This is what makes a saint.
JR
As I said above, he bagan his life as a secular priest and later decicded to join religious life. Now stop and think why a secular priest would desire to leave the diocesan priesthood to become a religious. Religious life imposes many limitations and obligations on the individual, that the priesthood does not.
For example:
- Religious make vows of obedience, chastity and poverty.
Diocesan priests are already bound to celibacy. But not having a vow of chastity, means that if the rule of celibacy is ever dropped, they can marry. Religous would still be bound to a single life, because chastity means that they never marry, because they belong to a religious family. Diocesan priest have no such family. They live independently. They come and go as they please. They choose when they are to pray, relax, eat, sleep and the penances that they will do. There is not religious family to tell them what to wear of when to eat or what to eat or that they cannot go to a parish meeting, because they have to attend community recreation at that time.
Diocesan priests can own property. They can even hold jobs that pay them salaries, such as chaplaincies. Religious may never own anything, even as a group and they cannot receive a salary, have health insurance or retirement plans. Diocesan priests can have all of this.
Dicesan priests can make choices for themselves, like any adult and never have to ask someone for permission to buy a pair of shoes or to leave the house. Religious surrender their will to the superior and the superior surrenders his will to the chapter. They have to get permission to buy a pack of gum and ask for the money. They have to get permission to sleep in. They have to follow the schedule of their religious house.
Look at the Franciscans at Franciscan University. They were put in an uncomfortable position. Some students and faculty wanted the TLM and the superior said “NO.” The friars at the University had to deal with the fall-out, because the superior had said “No”, not because they agreed or disagreed with the TLM. What they thought on the matter was irrelevant, because religious have not thoughts or emotions of their own. When the superior felt it was right to have a TLM mass at the University, he gave permission. In the meantime, the friars were badmouthed and bashed, not only on campus, but even here on CAF. No one respected their Franciscan obedience.
- Why would Dominic want to be a preacher and a religious? Why not preach and continue to be a priest, without being a religious?
This is the most noble form of preaching. This is what James calls faith with actions.
Without anyone realizing it, Franciscan Brothers at Franciscan University also preached a good sermon. They took the heat from the TLM crowd, because they would not disobey their superior who is the voice of Christ in the community. The voice of Christ is always to be obeyed. Obedience to the voice of Christ can be a sermon.
Only those who are ready to hear the sermon, will do so. This is what has happened at Franciscan University. Only those who are able to see the fidelity of the Brothers to their superior and their willingness to take the heat rather than disobey and please the crowds will understand the sermon. The Franciscans preached a darn good sermon on obedience. Like Christ, they were obedient, even though they had to carry a cross for six-months.
They practiced what Dominic brought into the Church, preaching through love. In the case of the Franciscans it was love of their Superior and love for Francis and love of their promie to God, to be obedient until death, without murmuring, like Christ’s obeyed on the Cross.
This is what makes a saint.
JR
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
The one thing that was a real draw for me to the Catholic Church was the beauty of it’s diversity, but all under one roof so to speak.I was just reading a post on the Liturgy thread. Some posters were condemning the upcoming Religious Education Congress in LA. Some people were attempting to discourage others from attending the congress. Everyone involved in discouraging others had a different reason. Some didn’t like the topics for discussion and other openly posted their negative feelings toward Cardinal Mahoney and so forth all in the name of tradition and fidelity to the Church.
As I was reading I was reminded of this thread. And I asked myself, how a saint would respond in such a situation.
…
This is the sanctity that the Church needs today, where differences are celebrated, errors are corrected through persuasion and preaching by those who have the qualifications to preach and the advantages of one group are celebrated by another, as Dominic did when his rule was declined and the exception was made for Francis.
Here we have Catherine, Dominic and Francis all great reformers and all great lovers of every human being, capable of correcting error through kind actions and words and helping the Church to correct itself without calling out her faults in public. This is sanctity appropriate for today.
JR
Being from the Protestant world, I was used to diversity, but it was always in opposition. Never trusting anyone or any group who’s spirituality or personal style of worship or appreciations were different, as though each was the only authentic Christian form. It was wearisome and frankly absurd when thought out in light of Scripture.
The beauty of Catholicism was that it recognized all these diversities as being authentic and ordained, all welcomed under the same Head, who was the creator of each charism and who gave these gifts according to His own purpose.
So it blows me away when I see people behaving in a very Protestant and Fundamentalist way within the one place, the Church, where all this diversity has always been celebrated.
Very confusing and sad really.
J
JReducation
Guest
Hopefully, all popes pray. But those who knew John Paul II say that he prayed 7-8 hours per day. This is over and above the mass and the Divine Office which all clerics must pray five times a day.stmaria said:
They could not shake him out of it. It was almost a state of rapture. Sometimes they would be eight-hours without interruption and sometimes it would be several times a day that would last up to two hours each time, even through the night.
John Paul’s apartment had the chapel between the living room and the dining room. He had to pass the chapel to go eat. His staff always commented that he would stop in the chapel before going to lunch and would forget to eat or that they were waiting for him. Time would pass as if it didn’t exist.
His prayer was always the same, which is consistent with mysticism. He would never begin a mass or the Divine Office or private prayer without his list of a particular part of the Church that needed God’s attention. His prayer always began with the same sentence, “Today I ask for a lot.” Then he would be heard to murmur as if in conversation with someone whom no one else could see. He would say his part and wait as if for a response and they respond. His staff and friends said it was like watching someone on the telephone. He wasn’t just praying, he was chatting. He did this at home in his apartment, on trains, planes in the car or walking through the countryside.
His staff often found him lying on the floor of his chapel, face down with his arms wide open, like Christ on the cross. He would be in that position for hours.
When asked how he prayed, he responded, “The Pope prays as the Holy Spirit prays.” He was known to enter an interior world of prayer, much like St. Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross or John the Evangelist and he would come back from that inner world of prayer saying what he saw of the Church. His friends and colleagues knew that it had to be true, because it made sense, but it was all new to them at the same time. It tied in with what they knew about the Church, but at the same time, it was also a new perspective and always one that pointed to something good in the Church or in a person or a nation. This is anohter sign of mysticism. Mystics always see the good, even those who have seen hell, have also seen Heaven in their prayers. They never come out of their prayer life with just the bad, but always with some kind of charitable mission or word of encouragement for the world.
In a private conversation with Cardinal O’Connor of NY he said, “When I wake up in the morning I pray that I will go to bed without discouraging any impulse of the Holy Spirit.”
This is a mystic. One whose prayer life guides his decisions. A mystic is one who seeks to see the world through the eyes of the Holy Spirit and who enters into prayer without preconceived notions of what is right or wrong or what he or she is going to hear in prayer.
They present themselves to God with their concerns and their personality, but they just let go and listen. Sometimes they see things that God shows them. It could be visions or just in the mind’s eye.
John Paul’s friends, including Benedict XVI said they believed that he would enter prayer and become united with Christ so profoundly, that he did not feel his surroundings or those around him. These are the same experiences that St. John the Evangelist, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Catherine of Siena, St. Francis of Assisi and St. John of the Cross had in prayer.
John Paul’s prayer life was very different from other holy men around him. His was a complete surrender to let the Spirit talk. Often he did not understand why the Holy Spirit made certain requests, but it was not up to man to question, but to obey. It ties in with his motto regarding Mary, “All yours”. This way of praying and thinking fits the definition of mystic: “one whose ultimate goal is the union of his soul with the Divinity itself.”
John Paul II was not asking God to do something for the Church or for him. He was looking for union with the Divinity and he left the door open for God to work through him, even when he didn’t understand or he disagreed.
Mystics often disagree with God, but they obey. Read the autobiography of St. Teresa. She always argued with God.
Peggy Noonan gives an excellent portrayal of his mystical life in her book John Paul the Great: Remembering a Spiritual Father. There is another one out by his secretary, but I have not read that one.
I hope this helps those who may be interested in the spirit of Joh Paul II and will also help people understand why he made some choices that may seem extraordinary to many of us.
As St. Teresa once said, “I would rather live with a scholar than a saint. Saints don’t make sense.” Look who was talking. LOL
JR
J
JReducation
Guest
I believe that as long as the dignity of human life is in danger of being suppressed and redefined, as long as man destroys his brothers and sisters through war for the sake of money, power, and territory, as long as we have children who are led astray by a world that promotes promiscuity, drugs, indifferentism to human suffering, and failure to accept responsibility for one’s share of evil in the world, any other concern is probably more self-serving than serving Christ or our own sanctification.
In fact, as long as these other situations exist, how can we even speak of being reverent in front of the Blessed Sacrament? How does what we wear or not wear, pray in TLM or NO, sing Kumbaya or Gregorian Chant, etc compare with the need for saints on the streets of our cities? It is an affront to Christ to appear before him with all of the proper externals, if we have not attended to any of these sins and done anything to remedy them.
The greatest act of reverence that we can do for God is to love him in our brothers and sisters.
Then we shall stand before him and be worthy. Why can’t people get the example of someone like Mother Teresa or Alberto Hurtado.
We have Christ in the poor and in children who are afraid of the world they live in. Everytime a child hears about another war, another child rape, another killing in his neighborhood, another child who has been abandoned by his or her parents, another child dying of hunger or disease, Christ relieves the agony in the garden through that child who is terrified of the world in which he lives.
These are real sins. This is why we are sent at the end of mass. To find the children who spend their lives in the Garden in agony with Christ. Sainthood today is to embrace Christ in the Garden and wipe his face of the blood that he sweats caused by fear and pain.
JR
In fact, as long as these other situations exist, how can we even speak of being reverent in front of the Blessed Sacrament? How does what we wear or not wear, pray in TLM or NO, sing Kumbaya or Gregorian Chant, etc compare with the need for saints on the streets of our cities? It is an affront to Christ to appear before him with all of the proper externals, if we have not attended to any of these sins and done anything to remedy them.
The greatest act of reverence that we can do for God is to love him in our brothers and sisters.
Then we shall stand before him and be worthy. Why can’t people get the example of someone like Mother Teresa or Alberto Hurtado.
We have Christ in the poor and in children who are afraid of the world they live in. Everytime a child hears about another war, another child rape, another killing in his neighborhood, another child who has been abandoned by his or her parents, another child dying of hunger or disease, Christ relieves the agony in the garden through that child who is terrified of the world in which he lives.
These are real sins. This is why we are sent at the end of mass. To find the children who spend their lives in the Garden in agony with Christ. Sainthood today is to embrace Christ in the Garden and wipe his face of the blood that he sweats caused by fear and pain.
JR
J
Jeanette_L
Guest
These thoughts should make us all take inventory of our own souls and whether we truly ‘get it’. I for one, am very far from fulfilling this mandate of Christ’s, as is I’m sure most of us who call ourselves Christian and Catholic, which is partly why the world is in such sad shape.In fact, as long as these other situations exist, how can we even speak of being reverent in front of the Blessed Sacrament? How does what we wear or not wear, pray in TLM or NO, sing Kumbaya or Gregorian Chant, etc compare with the need for saints on the streets of our cities? It is an affront to Christ to appear before him with all of the proper externals, if we have not attended to any of these sins and done anything to remedy them.
The greatest act of reverence that we can do for God is to love him in our brothers and sisters.
Then we shall stand before him and be worthy. Why can’t people get the example of someone like Mother Teresa or Alberto Hurtado.
Sainthood today is to embrace Christ in the Garden and wipe his face of the blood that he sweats caused by fear and pain.
JR
We would rather fuss with each other and argue over our agendas, opinions, wants, needs and rights within the Church, while the world’s forgotten ones cry out in pain.
We will all have to stand before our creator and give an account, this is, on a very personal level, sobering and heartbreaking.
J
JReducation
Guest
I hope it is not too presumptuous of me to share my daily meditation with you. This mediation and the life of our Holy Father St. Francis, the mysticism of St. John the Evangelist and our Holy Father Pope John Paul II have driven me to TRY to respond to the Lord’s calling to holiness.
I hope this little meditation does for you as much as it has done for me. It is my deepest wish, as you all deserve the graces that I have received much more than I do.
There is no telling why and how God distributes his gifts. I’m a serious sinner compared to most people, yet I have received so much. There is nothing else that I can say, but one thing . . . I shall go.
JR
youtube.com/watch?v=rzp83SWRNZw
I hope this little meditation does for you as much as it has done for me. It is my deepest wish, as you all deserve the graces that I have received much more than I do.
There is no telling why and how God distributes his gifts. I’m a serious sinner compared to most people, yet I have received so much. There is nothing else that I can say, but one thing . . . I shall go.
JR
youtube.com/watch?v=rzp83SWRNZw
C
catharina
Guest
UhOh.
I can only access youtube when I’m at the library.
Soon, soon, soon.
I can only access youtube when I’m at the library.
Soon, soon, soon.
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