Saints: How Would They Live In Today's World?

[JReducation]

I’d like to focus on just this one thought for a minute.

I have often wondered if what we see among those who are so outspoken against the Church and it’s leaders, is just a response against the Church for perceived or real offenses that have caused deep emotional wounds; and there has not been a candid exploration by the individuals or whatever groups they congregate in, as to what really needs to happen within themselves to move forward. It’s always easier to demand of others than to demand of ourselves.

Sometimes we just need to take a step back when we are really really angry and ask ourselves some honest questions, being prepared to deal with the honest answers. This takes courage, because more often than not, what we discover is not what we thought was there all along, but something altogether different, sometimes altogether us and not them.

The Holy Spirit is always looking for an honest inquirer, always waiting and willing to show us the truth of a matter if we honestly want to know it. Courage and humility. Tough things, but necessary *always *when holiness is our goal.

I believe this is where the Capuchin’s idea of the hermitage comes in handy. Francis created this concept that he borrowed from the Desert Fathers. He called it a hermitage. It is a place that one goes to where one can be alone and reflect and think things through. It can be a weekend at the beach, a retreat house, camping, a quiet day in the country or at the park. The point is that one takes time out to be alone with one’s self and with God. Only in silence does one really come to know the truth of who one is before God.

St. Francis said “I am what I am before God, nothing else.” Notice that the focus is on the “I”. One wastes one’s time and God’s if we spend it wondering what is wrong with the Church or with the world, before one asks “who am I?”

Before I can see the other as the Beloved of God, I must reflect on the Baptism of Jesus. When Jesus comes out of the Jordan the Holy Spirit comes over him and says, “You are my Beloved, on whom my favour rests.”

These words were not spoken just for Jesus. They were spoken for humanity. In his incarnation, Jesus takes upon himself our humanity. Therefore, the human Jesus, who is the Beloved of the Father stands in place for all of us.

Unless we can reconcile ourselves to the idea that we are Beloved, we will never be able to see others as Beloved of the same Father. We will always see in them their faults and weakness. This is typical psychological phenomenon called displacement. One feels unlvoed or unloveable.

Our society has a serious problem with self-esteem. People feel that they are unloveable, because they have not learned that they are Beloved of the Father. Therefore, tend to go aorund finding fault. If I can find fault with that or with whom is supposed to be loveable, I can somehow justify my own weakness by blaming it on those in power or in authority, such as the Church.

I can say that the Church is weak or that the Church is wrong. This justifies me for being wrong. The worse part is that most of the time, there is nothing wrong with me, other than the fact that I don’t accept myself as I am.

This is why it’s so important to do as Francis taught us, to go to the hermitage and say, “I am what I am before God, nothing else,” and then let God tell us what I am and who I am in his eyes. Once I come to that knowledge I will realize that others are the same as me, they are sinful, weak, and graced by God’s love.

JR

 

[catharina]

Reading this thread regularly, often more than once a day, I find that many times I have nothing to add at the moment. What has already been expressed by others has been so clear, it leaves me with a sense of peace that is of God. The greatest gift for all of us is our Faith. Following that, flowing from it, as has been said in Scripture, everything is grace. Often, my silent response can be only this: “Thank You, Lord.”

Thank you, posters, too.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Reading this thread regularly, often more than once a day, I find that many times I have nothing to add at the moment. What has already been expressed by others has been so clear, it leaves me with a sense of peace that is of God. The greatest gift for all of us is our Faith. Following that, flowing from it, as has been said in Scripture, everything is grace. Often, my silent response can be only this: "Thank You, Lord."

Thank you, posters, too.

I know I have to remind myself when things get tough, in whatever part of my life I’m having difficulty, I need to understand that God’s great gift of faith has already been generously poured out on me and for that I should be bursting at the seems with joy. Amazing Grace. Keeping eternity always in mind, so hard but the only way to understand it all, right?

God bless Catharina!

 

[catharina]

… and God bless Jeanette!

"Keeping eternity always in mind … "

the great teaching of Mother Seton - and Jeanette!

 

[JReducation]

Time flies, but Eternity stands still.

Therefore, we should be quick to practice charity before our time is up. Eternity without charity can be hell.

JR

 

[Jeanette_L]

… and God bless Jeanette!

"Keeping eternity always in mind … "

the great teaching of Mother Seton - and Jeanette!

I think she’s rubbing off on me…that’s what happens when it takes you 2 months to get through a small book.

Time flies, but Eternity stands still.

Therefore, we should be quick to practice charity before our time is up. Eternity without charity can be hell.

JR

Sounds like something C.S. Lewis would say, (one of my all time favorites) a great tidbit of truth.

 

[catharina]

Time flies, but Eternity stands still.

Therefore, we should be quick to practice charity before our time is up. Eternity without charity can be hell.

JR

Love it, JR. A big smile.
You must be feeling comical/maniacal tonight.

 

[JReducation]

Love it, JR. A big smile.
You must be feeling comical/maniacal tonight.

Actually, this was one of the chapters in my doctoral dissertation for my PhD in Philosophy of Theology. I was comparing how St. Francis of Assisi and Teresa of Avila viewed Eternity and Charity.

While Teresa focussed on the Mystical Union with the Divine through contemplative prayer that transcends all human experiences. Francis focussed on the Mystical Union with the Divine through the greatest act of charity that transcends time, which is the cross.

In reality they were both on paths that led to the same great road, the road to Heaven.

Contemplative prayer is a relationship of mutual charity between the human and the Divine. This relationship must begin in the present. We cannot wait until after death to begin our love life with the Divine.

That being said, the love of Christ on the cross had to take place in human time as well. There was no way that Christ could have offered his life on the cross while still in Eternity. He could love us from eternity, but he could not die while still in Eternity. He had to become incarnate and break into human time. But his one single act of charity within our own time, transcends time.

Therefore, if we are to be united with Christ, we must seek this union through love in the here and now and be quick about it, because the here and now will not be around much longer. The sentence that you have just read and the thought that you had as you were reading it have already become a thing of the past.

Logical philosophy would say that the only way that we can spend Eternity with God is to take advantage of the love that God pours out to us in our present moment, out of his eternal existence.

When we look at spiritual theology through the eyes of logic it makes perfect sense. Holiness is logical, becomes it understands that the love affair between God and man begins before time began and continues into eternity. Those of us who were created within time and only respond to God within time. Only angels exist outside of time and have all eternity to love God. Man has to respond to God’s love within the time that God gives him.

This is the intimate relationship between faith and reason. True reason will always shed light on faith and guide us to living our faith correctly and in a timely fashion. True reason cannot err, because true reason leads to love. Reason and love is what makes man the image and likeness of God.

JR

 

[Nino]

I believe a Saint,so defined by the RCC would be the same in any country at any time of any century…that is what made him/her just that…a saint! Truth is a constant,maybe under one regime or another a saint may be brought to trial or legally lynched etc etc at different times…re: age wise> We common folk are tied to a certain time frame…like character actors who just portray one type of individual for movies and thats all…you’ve seen them …they alwalys play maybe a skinflint,or a tightwad,or a drunk,etc…etc…but to me a saint is universal…how else can their be guardian angels…do they have to check up with the latests slogans or buzz words or PC comments to help us out…hardly they just know and are quickly flexible to learn madison ave.and its latest 'cool’sayings. By the way that expression…'thats cool" was used some 12 times by Lincoln back in the 1860s…all the best…

 

[JReducation]

I believe a Saint,so defined by the RCC would be the same in any country at any time of any century…that is what made him/her just that…a saint! Truth is a constant,maybe under one regime or another a saint may be brought to trial or legally lynched etc etc at different times…re: age wise> We common folk are tied to a certain time frame…like character actors who just portray one type of individual for movies and thats all…you’ve seen them …they alwalys play maybe a skinflint,or a tightwad,or a drunk,etc…etc…but to me a saint is universal…how else can their be guardian angels…do they have to check up with the latests slogans or buzz words or PC comments to help us out…hardly they just know and are quickly flexible to learn madison ave.and its latest 'cool’sayings. By the way that expression…'thats cool" was used some 12 times by Lincoln back in the 1860s…all the best…

I haven’t a clue what you’re trying to say. I’m sorry for my ignorance. Can you translate, please.

Thanks,

JR

 

[Jeanette_L]

I believe a Saint,so defined by the RCC would be the same in any country at any time of any century…that is what made him/her just that…a saint! Truth is a constant,maybe under one regime or another a saint may be brought to trial or legally lynched etc etc at different times…re: age wise> We common folk are tied to a certain time frame…like character actors who just portray one type of individual for movies and thats all…you’ve seen them …they alwalys play maybe a skinflint,or a tightwad,or a drunk,etc…etc…but to me a saint is universal…how else can their be guardian angels…do they have to check up with the latests slogans or buzz words or PC comments to help us out…hardly they just know and are quickly flexible to learn madison ave.and its latest 'cool’sayings. By the way that expression…'thats cool" was used some 12 times by Lincoln back in the 1860s…all the best…

I haven’t a clue what you’re trying to say. I’m sorry for my ignorance. Can you translate, please.

Thanks,

JR

I may be wrong about this, but what I believe Nino is trying to say is that what makes a Saint a Saint is a certain quality that exists no matter what era or age he/she happens to be born into, he/she transcends time in that respect and exists as a Saint because it is who he/she is.

We all would be exactly who we are no matter what time or era we existed in because man is basically the same, just his circumstances change, like props in a play or scenarios in a movie.

That’s my take on it, I hope I did Nino justice!

 

[JReducation]

I may be wrong about this, but what I believe Nino is trying to say is that what makes a Saint a Saint is a certain quality that exists no matter what era or age he/she happens to be born into, he/she transcends time in that respect and exists as a Saint because it is who he/she is.

We all would be exactly who we are no matter what time or era we existed in because man is basically the same, just his circumstances change, like props in a play or scenarios in a movie.

That’s my take on it, I hope I did Nino justice!

Oh, OK.

I was speaking of time in human terms. Now I get it.

Thanks

JR

 

[catharina]

JR, my point, your conclusion was sooooo succinct:

“Eternity without charity can be hell.” Oh YEAH! It is exactly that.

Jeanette, congrats on the excellent translation of nino’s post - and thanks for it too.

 

[JReducation]

JR, my point, your conclusion was sooooo succinct:

“Eternity without charity can be hell.” Oh YEAH! It is exactly that.

Jeanette, congrats on the excellent translation of nino’s post - and thanks for it too.

I’ll take succinct. Succinct is good. LOL

JR

 

[arvinsim]

Sorry to butt in your train of thought but I would just likie to ask what people think of St. Francis de Sales…

Because I think his work “The Introduction to Devout Life” is surprisingly relevant for laypeople today

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Sorry to butt in your train of thought but I would just likie to ask what people think of St. Francis de Sales…

Because I think his work “The Introduction to Devout Life” is surprisingly relevant for laypeople today

… …Very true! and St. Francis wrote it specifically with lay people in mind in a time when devout and pious lay people still followed a rigidly monastic type spirituality. He is a spiritual writer who is profoundly practical with sound common sense with an awesome sense of God’s Loving Mercy. Love the man!

Blessings - Barb

 

[catharina]

For many years, I have been a devotee of St. Francis de Sales, maybe because I belonged to a parish of that name, which prompted me to learn about him.

Here are some beautiful comments made by Pope Pius XI in his Bull of Canonization of our ‘gentleman saint.’

He reminds me so much of St. Therese who, like St. Francis de Sales, is a Doctor of the Church. Both of them teach the importance of the little way, the sanctifying of everyday actions, and keeping a pure intention of pleasing God. Ah, Lord, may it be so for all of us.

One of my very favorite short prayers is the doxology:

Through Him, with Him, in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all honor and glory is yours, Almighty Father! May it be so! I have studied another carmelite blessed, Elizabeth of the Trinity, who adopted as her lifetime aspiration, to be a living “praise of His Glory!”

Carole

Joysong, re St. Francis de Sales, I’ve been meaning to post this quote for you.
I got it from a friend who has great devotion to him:

“Friendships begun in this world will be taken up again, never to be broken off.”

~ St. Francis de Sales, Feastday January 24

 

[Jeanette_L]

Joysong, re St. Francis de Sales, I’ve been meaning to post this quote for you.
I got it from a friend who has great devotion to him:

“Friendships begun in this world will be taken up again, never to be broken off.”

~ St. Francis de Sales, Feastday January 24

I love this!

What a wonderful reunion we all will have some day!

 

[catharina]

I love this!

What a wonderful reunion we all will have some day!

Agreed - and your focus on Mother Seton plus JR’s commentary re our oneness in the Eucharist for the living and the deceased (as Mother Seton has described it) have fully lifted my heart in regard to living a life of endrung and conscious Hope.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Agreed - and your focus on Mother Seton plus JR’s commentary re our oneness in the Eucharist for the living and the deceased (as Mother Seton has described it) have fully lifted my heart in regard to living a life of endrung and conscious Hope.

You know Catherina, I am so with you on this. There are way too many Catholics (and other Christians as well) who choose to live in a doom and gloom state of mind when it comes to eternity, as though Christ’s promise of hope and his encouragement to us not to live in fear were not truly meant by him.

If we don’t have that blessed hope, then we lose the joy of our salvation, which is our light in the darkness around us. It is the abiding witness that will speak to a world filled with hopelessness.