Saint's Intercession

[regression]

Hello, in discussing praying to the saints, asking them to pray for us, Revelation 5:8 is used to show saints offering prayers to God. Just playing devil’s advocate (no pun intended) how do we know these prayers are from the people on earth? There are prayers of thanksgiving to God, so couldn’t the saints be offering those prayers to God instead of prayers from people on earth? Thanking Him for His love and mercy?

In this article, under the section “Can They Hear Us?”, talks about Revelation:

catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

Thanks.

 

[Luke65]

But if that were the case, why wouldn’t it simply say that they were “their prayers” that they were offering to God? Why “the prayers of the saints”? Besides there’s another verse that makes it perfectly clear:

“Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel’s hand.” (Revelation 8:3-4)

Proof positive! God bless.

 

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Well I don’t know, to me:

“Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel’s hand.” (Revelation 8:3-4)

Still could mean the prays the saints came up with themselves or the prayers of people on earth. I guess it is good we can’t all interpret the bible on our own

However, I would still like to hear anyone’s opinion on it…

 

[Luke65]

Well I don’t know, to me:

Still could mean the prays the saints came up with themselves or the prayers of people on earth. I guess it is good we can’t all interpret the bible on our own

However, I would still like to hear anyone’s opinion on it…

It says in this passage that the prayers “went up before God from the angel’s hand.” It says in the other passage that Saints are “holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” So I don’t see how anyone can deny that all the prayers of the saints are being offered up to God by heavenly intercessors. I think this is a very powerful argument that Catholics are praying according to the ways of God when we ask for the Saints (including angels) to intercede for us, especially considering:

“The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” (James 5:16)

 

[regression]

It says in this passage that the prayers “went up before God from the angel’s hand.” It says in the other passage that Saints are “holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” So I don’t see how anyone can deny that all the prayers of the saints are being offered up to God by heavenly intercessors. I think this is a very powerful argument that Catholics are praying according to the ways of God when we ask for the Saints (including angels) to intercede for us, especially considering:

“The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” (James 5:16)

Well, I don’t mean to be stubborn, but is it possible the prayers the angel gives to God are the prayers of thanksgiving from the saints to God (not prayers from people on earth)?

I’m not saying I don’t believe in us asking saints to pray for us, I’m just trying to get a better understanding of it.

Thanks for your persistence!

 

[Randy_Carson]

It says in this passage that the prayers “went up before God from the angel’s hand.” It says in the other passage that Saints are “holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” So I don’t see how anyone can deny that all the prayers of the saints are being offered up to God by heavenly intercessors. I think this is a very powerful argument that Catholics are praying according to the ways of God when we ask for the Saints (including angels) to intercede for us, especially considering:

“The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” (James 5:16)

You bring up another question: If the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us when we believe (as some Protestants teach), then why aren’t ALL of our prayers powerful and effective since we are all righteous?

However, we know that God does NOT answer all of our prayers equally…some people are obviously more effective as prayer warriors than others.

Consequently, can the imputation of righteousness stand?

 

[Luke65]

Well, I don’t mean to be stubborn, but is it possible the prayers the angel gives to God are the prayers of thanksgiving from the saints to God (not prayers from people on earth)?

I’m not saying I don’t believe in us asking saints to pray for us, I’m just trying to get a better understanding of it.

Thanks for your persistence!

Well, go back to my original point: “the prayers of all the saints” - not just the Saints in Heaven (if you do a search for “saints” in the Bible, you’ll see that we on earth are also called “saints”).

 

[Luke65]

You bring up another question: If the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us when we believe (as some Protestants teach), then why aren’t ALL of our prayers powerful and effective since we are all righteous?

However, we know that God does NOT answer all of our prayers equally…some people are obviously more effective as prayer warriors than others.

Consequently, can the imputation of righteousness stand?

Good point! Let’s see if any Protestants have an answer for that.

 

[regression]

Well, go back to my original point: “the prayers of all the saints” - not just the Saints in Heaven (if you do a search for “saints” in the Bible, you’ll see that we on earth are also called “saints”).

Ah, I was assuming saints meant those in heaven. OK, that is starting to make more sense to me. Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate your help.

 

[Luke65]

Ah, I was assuming saints meant those in heaven. OK, that is starting to make more sense to me. Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate your help.

No problema! I still would like to see how Protestants answer these points.

 

[LilyM]

Well, I don’t mean to be stubborn, but is it possible the prayers the angel gives to God are the prayers of thanksgiving from the saints to God (not prayers from people on earth)?

I’m not saying I don’t believe in us asking saints to pray for us, I’m just trying to get a better understanding of it.

Thanks for your persistence!

Doesn’t make sense - why would someone in heaven, in God’s very presence, have any need or desire to pray to Him through another person? They are experiencing the beatific vision, union as complete as any human experiences with the Divine - surely they don’t need others to present their prayers to God?

Besides which, there’s no way ‘all the saints’ can possibly exclude the earthly saints (Paul calls his correspondents saints many times, they are clearly earthly beings!)