Saints prayed- Horrible deaths

[Jubilarian]

I’ve always wondered if the great saints that got their heads chopped off , were crucified, burned or suffered in some other way prayed before the occurrence. I’m sure they did, but the question that arises is, why would we think that blessings could be bestowed upon us if they were not delivered from their sufferings?

There is no prosperity gospel .Christianity is about self sacrifice, period, I feel.

 

[bisco]

sacrafice in this life, prosperity in the next. who told you otherwise? and yet, we all get blessings in this life as well, they are unmistakeable,if we pay attention.

 

[petra22]

sacrafice in this life, prosperity in the next. who told you otherwise? and yet, we all get blessings in this life as well, they are unmistakeable,if we pay attention.

Even right after the fall God told Adam he would eat by the sweat of his brow–which meant he would have to work his behind off to survive. Sounds like a curse to me, but when you think about it, who of us really doesn’t like to keep busy at some kind of work??? It was really a blessing to keep us busy while we are working for Heaven. And about the suffering? The way Jesus suffered showed us what was/is in store for us. And didn’t he say we should follow Him???

 

[Hodegetria]

Yes, they prayed for strength, courage and faith to die for Jesus, not necessarily to be saved, and they were (are?) rewarded with the martyr’s crown, straight to heaven. I always think the martyrs are so awesome!

This reminds me of St Maximilian Kolbe, when Blessed Mother asked him which crown he wanted: red for a martyr’s death or white for purity. And he said “I’ll take both.” I can’t even tell the story without tearing up. If you haven’t read his biography, it’s really worthwhile.

 

[MaryT777]

Yes, they prayed for strength, courage and faith to die for Jesus, not necessarily to be saved, and they were (are?) rewarded with the martyr’s crown, straight to heaven. I always think the martyrs are so awesome!

This reminds me of St Maximilian Kolbe, when Blessed Mother asked him which crown he wanted: red for a martyr’s death or white for purity. And he said “I’ll take both.” I can’t even tell the story without tearing up. If you haven’t read his biography, it’s really worthwhile.

St. Maximilian Kolbe is my favorite saint and yes I second reading his biography.

Mary.

 

[Jubilarian]

sacrafice in this life, prosperity in the next. who told you otherwise? and yet, we all get blessings in this life as well, they are unmistakeable,if we pay attention.

Even if I put aside the general notion that prayer can deliver you from all kinds of situations in the prosperity teachings within some Protestant denominations, Catholicism invites us to pray for deliverance. So, that’s who told me.

The point is that people pray to be saved from a flat tire at night. It seems small compared to your head being literally on the chopping block like some of the saints. Why would we think the deluverance in our situation would be greater?

 

[HollyDolly]

yes of course they all prayed before their execution. St.Thomas More who had been Lord Chancellor to Henry the Eigth made the famous remark at his execution that he died the king’s servant but God’s first. if you read about the execution of some of the famous people whom Henry executed they all prayed before the execution and also before their heads were cut off.They also were allowed to address the crowd of people who came to see their end.
Quite a few of their end remarks have come down to us.
Blessed Margaret Plantagenet Pole ,mother of Cardinal Reginald Pole,governess of Henry 's daughter Queen Mary and Henry’s royal cousin made the remark that she was no traitor and that the executioner could get her head the best he could.Which led to him chasing her around the block and trying to take off her head.
At least Henry granted Anne Boleyn’s last wish and he hired an experienced executioner from Calais a frenchman,who took off her head with one blow with a sword.

 

[TheDoctor]

I’ve always wondered if the great saints that got their heads chopped off , were crucified, burned or suffered in some other way prayed before the occurrence. I’m sure they did, but the question that arises is, why would we think that blessings could be bestowed upon us if they were not delivered from their sufferings?
There is no prosperity gospel .Christianity is about self sacrifice, period, I feel.

Before His execution, did not Christ also pray for deliverance (“Father, if it be possible take this cup from me”) yet He was not delivered from His sufferings, was he?. By your logic, are you then asking how blessings could be bestowed upon us by Christ since He was not delivered from suffering? I don’t think so, do you?

Life is about sacrifice. Some big, some small. Reflecting on Christ’s words from that text ("not my will but Yours be done) explains why and how the great Saints prayed at their hour of suffering - because they understood that even in times of great despair or sorrow there is a joy from handing ourselves over to God’s will and knowing that God can make good out of the evil that men do.

I am not sure what you mean when you say “Christianity is about self sacrifice”. Can you elaborate?

 

[Jubilarian]

Before His execution, did not Christ also pray for deliverance (“Father, if it be possible take this cup from me”) yet He was not delivered from His sufferings, was he?. By your logic, are you then asking how blessings could be bestowed upon us by Christ since He was not delivered from suffering? I don’t think so, do you?

Life is about sacrifice. Some big, some small. Reflecting on Christ’s words from that text ("not my will but Yours be done) explains why and how the great Saints prayed at their hour of suffering - because they understood that even in times of great despair or sorrow there is a joy from handing ourselves over to God’s will and knowing that God can make good out of the evil that men do.

I am not sure what you mean when you say “Christianity is about self sacrifice”. Can you elaborate?

I notice a touch if sarcasm in your response. I came out of Fundamentalism, and blessings are around every corner. Not just the blessings of a roof over your head. Sometimes you could feel that you didn’t pray enough or ask correctly. So, that’s why I feel this way.

In addition, I know that Chrjstianity is about picking up your cross no matter what it is. Just look around you and see the the sacrifices that must be made to attain a possible positive result. It’s not about getting anything, therefore self sacrifice. If you do get a bonus out of it, just praise God for it.

 

[TheDoctor]

I notice a touch if sarcasm in your response. I came out of Fundamentalism, and blessings are around every corner. Not just the blessings of a roof over your head. Sometimes you could feel that you didn’t pray enough or ask correctly. So, that’s why I feel this way.

In addition, I know that Chrjstianity is about picking up your cross no matter what it is. Just look around you and see the the sacrifices that must be made to attain a possible positive result. It’s not about getting anything, therefore self sacrifice. If you do get a bonus out of it, just praise God for it.

No sarcasm intended, but in order to understand where you are coming from I like to see what we agree and disagree with.

We agree that blessings are around every corner. I often feel I don’t pray enough and that I could pray better. Sometimes I feel empty, like no one is listening. Some days the cross is light. Some days it is heavy.

I don’t know if I will have the faith of a Saint, but I pray for wisdom and understanding. Maybe that is something else we can agree on.

 

[zab]

I’ve always wondered if the great saints that got their heads chopped off , were crucified, burned or suffered in some other way prayed before the occurrence. I’m sure they did, but the question that arises is, why would we think that blessings could be bestowed upon us if they were not delivered from their sufferings?

There is no prosperity gospel .Christianity is about self sacrifice, period, I feel.

Why would we think that blessings*** could be ***bestowed upon us? - because nothing is impossible for God. but God’s ways are not our ways. And we do not always get everything we ask for. But many times we do. And how many of those times did we think it was “co-incidence” that we got the help that we prayed for? We are not all destined to die the death of a martyr. Many saints were not martyrs in the sense of dying of horrible death. But God’s grace can give us the strength to endure anything, even martyrdom.

 

[Jubilarian]

Why would we think that blessings*** could be ***bestowed upon us? - because nothing is impossible for God. but God’s ways are not our ways. And we do not always get everything we ask for. But many times we do. And how many of those times did we think it was “co-incidence” that we got the help that we prayed for? We are not all destined to die the death of a martyr. Many saints were not martyrs in the sense of dying of horrible death. But God’s grace can give us the strength to endure anything, even martyrdom.

We would think that because that is one view towards Christianity. What I’m trying to say, not effectively I’m afraid , is that there are people that walked with Jesus and they did not escape absolute horror. Yet, people are often encorgaged to pray about passing a school test, a flat tire, a new house etc… Theses things seem quite petty in comparison to what the saints suffered.

Why would we expect these prayers to be answered? I’ve seen stories where an infant was burned all over in a house fire and lived horribly disfigured. And I’m praying for new shoes for example? Theres no balance there.

 

[zab]

We would think that because that is one view towards Christianity. What I’m trying to say, not effectively I’m afraid , is that there are people that walked with Jesus and they did not escape absolute horror. Yet, people are often encorgaged to pray about passing a school test, a flat tire, a new house etc… Theses things seem quite petty in comparison to what the saints suffered.

Why would we expect these prayers to be answered? I’ve seen stories where an infant was burned all over in a house fire and lived horribly disfigured. And I’m praying for new shoes for example? Theres no balance there.

 

[zab]

Anybody else having problems with your posts getting deleted before they are even posted?

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I think we also need to have the mindset of these saints as they went to their martyrdom. One of my personal favorite and most inspirational martyrdom story was the Carmelite nuns of Compiègne during the French Revolution.

Prior to their martyrdom they had prayed as a community to offer themselves as a sacrifice to end the French Revolution. The following year their prayers were answered and their convent was seized and they were arrested. During their trial the Mother Superior successfully demanded that added to the list of charges was, “being attached your religion and King”. The Mother Superior turned to the sisters and told them, “We must rejoice and give thanks to God for we die for our religion, our faith, and for being members of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.”

Long story short, when the time came for their execution witnesses recounted that the nuns “went to the guillotine as brides going to their wedding”. They were heard singing hymns in the wagon as they rode to the location and as each nun went to the guillotine they were singing the psalm “Laudate Dominum omnes gentes” and as the guillotine fell, the singing got one voice quieter.

The professed sisters all renewed their vows while the one novice made her final profession to the Mother Superior in danger of death. The Mother Superior was granted permission to be executed last, and each sister, just prior to ascending the scaffolding, knelt before her asking, “Permission to die, Mother?” to which they received her permission, “Go my daughter!” Before their heads reached the basket they were in the arms of their Beloved Bridegroom.

We see this same mentality with the virgin saints. St. Agnes, who was so young the handcuffs didn’t fit her wrists went to her excution fearless knowing she would soon be with her Beloved Spouse. She actually caused fear in her executioner.

And then there’s St. Lawrence who was roasted alive and jokingly told his executioners to turn him over because he was done on that side.

I believe some saints prayed to be delivered from being tortured and that should God will it, to take them to be with Him. St. Agatha did, I know, and possibly St. Cecilia.

If God wills that we be martyrs, I think we should give thanks and praise, rather than pray to be delivered from it. By all means we should pray for the grace to have sufficient fortitude when the time comes.

 

[Jubilarian]

Thanks for a synopsis of some saints and a good read. My original question was overlooked in your response however. Should we expect loved ones to be healed, jobs to be attained, flat tires to inflate etc., because we prayed for them to occur? The saints had a greater need, were walking with God, in his will, and their torture and death still occurred. Many of our prayers seem small compared to that and to top it of we are not ( I will speak for myself) living a saintly lifestyle.

Why would our prayers be effective? I realize I sound negative but the issue is a perplexing one.

 

[Thomas_White]

I’ve always wondered if the great saints that got their heads chopped off , were crucified, burned or suffered in some other way prayed before the occurrence. I’m sure they did, but the question that arises is, why would we think that blessings could be bestowed upon us if they were not delivered from their sufferings?

There is no prosperity gospel .Christianity is about self sacrifice, period, I feel.

Suffer they surely did, but in the end they were delivered from it for eternity. I agree there is no “prosperity” Gospel that would justify either materialism or greed in this temporal world. Quite the contrary: “Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:24)

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Thanks for a synopsis of some saints and a good read. My original question was overlooked in your response however. Should we expect loved ones to be healed, jobs to be attained, flat tires to inflate etc., because we prayed for them to occur? The saints had a greater need, were walking with God, in his will, and their torture and death still occurred. Many of our prayers seem small compared to that and to top it of we are not ( I will speak for myself) living a saintly lifestyle.

Why would our prayers be effective? I realize I sound negative but the issue is a perplexing one.

You are too caught up on the saint being tortured and killed as being a bad thing. That was what my response was trying to emphasize. The saints saw their torture and death in a different mindset than most people see these things. Many saw it as the wedding to their Beloved Bridegroom that they longed for and waited their whole life for. They wanted whatever God wanted.

As always, we should expect God’s will to be done, which will be whatever He deems best for us. When we pray for something we should pray with faith that God will grant it to us if it is for our benefit, but with a sense of detachment should it not be His will. Sickness is a great means of acquiring many graces if the person suffers with patience and resignation to God’s will for them, even if that means a slow painful and suffering death. God knows what we need better than we do, even of we think we do.

 

[Jubilarian]

Many an Atheist has said to me, " oh, if your mother dies wgen you prayed for her it was Gods will, but if she lives after praying its a miracle , right?" Basically they have a point because that’s how it plays out. It could almost seem like a rationalization.

 

[georget]

Many an Atheist has said to me, " oh, if your mother dies wgen you prayed for her it was Gods will, but if she lives after praying its a miracle , right?" Basically they have a point because that’s how it plays out. It could almost seem like a rationalization.

Atheists say a lot of things about which they don’t understand, God bless them. Jesus said “I AM, the way, the truth and the life.”, he suffered, died and resurrected. Maybe it’s as simple as having faith.