Saints that considered themselves terrible sinners.... where does that leave us?

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Hello!

I have been thinking about this for a couple of days. I still think that the saints had a clearer awareness of their sins than most of us. Several saints went through purgatory here on earth (St Catherine of Genoa and St Faustina) and they were very aware of their sins.

To be that in touch with God and His Glory, one has to be purified. To go through this process, one would have to be most “enlightened” about their sins. St Catherine said that the soul goes through a process of knowing all the sins the soul has committed. The soul wants nothing more than to know it’s sins as to get rid of them. Why because the soul wants nothing more than to be with God and to share in His Glory. This is all sins, not just big sins.

This does not apply to just saints. Anyone who follows God’s Covenant and prays fervently with sincereity can come to this happy crossroads. I believe we all have this potential. I believe that a person’s relationship with God depends on the level of sanctity achieved in this life.

Just some thoughts…

God Bless!
 
Dear Br JR,

Thank you once again for your wonderful and practical insights. There is a lot to ponder in those words. We appreciate very much your guidelines toward sainthood.

May the Holy Spirit make the path clear for all you strive to do.

Rove
 
thevickinator16 said:
Hello!

I have been thinking about this for a couple of days. I still think that the saints had a clearer awareness of their sins than most of us. Several saints went through purgatory here on earth (St Catherine of Genoa and St Faustina) and they were very aware of their sins.

To be that in touch with God and His Glory, one has to be purified. To go through this process, one would have to be most “enlightened” about their sins. St Catherine said that the soul goes through a process of knowing all the sins the soul has committed. The soul wants nothing more than to know it’s sins as to get rid of them. Why because the soul wants nothing more than to be with God and to share in His Glory. This is all sins, not just big sins.

This does not apply to just saints. Anyone who follows God’s Covenant and prays fervently with sincereity can come to this happy crossroads. I believe we all have this potential. I believe that a person’s relationship with God depends on the level of sanctity achieved in this life.

Just some thoughts…

God Bless!
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I will only add one word of caution. When you read the writings of the mystics it is important to discriminate between mysticism and holiness. It is not necessary to have the mystical insight of Catherine of Siena to be a saint. We have some perfect examples in our own American saints. None of them had this insight that Catherine describes, because none were mystics. However, they are saints and led very heoric lives.

I suggest that people read the lives of Mother Cabrini, Mother Seton, Bishop John Neuman, Mother Catherine Drexel and Bl. Kateri Tekawitta. They achieved sanctity by fulfilling their duties in life with great faith and sometimes great sacrifice, even when they did not have much proprioception.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
I just wanted to add that we have to remember that most people read biographies of saints. It’s like reading a biography of a great national hero. The writer is going to put the highlights into the book, because you can’t place every detail into it and you don’t know much of the information, unless you know someone on the inside. Often, saints appear as very different from the rest of us.

I am reminded of my shock when I entered novitiate and began to study Francis of Assisi. We began to learn to many things about him that are not in the biographies, but come out in letters that people wrote about him, their journals and even in notes made by such people as Cardinal Hugolino who later became Pope Gregory IX.

There were several surprises to me. I’ll share them for what their worth.
  1. Francis went to Rome to get approval of his rule because he was in danger of being accused of heresy. However, movies and books pick up on his reverence for the pope, which is true. But never mention the fear of heresy, which is very human. He could have been burned at the stake.
  2. Though no one ever wrote seeing him drunk. It appears that the humble man of Assisi was a weekly drinker and today would be arrested for disturbing the peace. I thought this was interesting, because we’re told that he loved to be with friends and walked the streets as the king of the carnival. But put into modern context, we call this a weekly drinker and a nuissance.
  3. He was a horrible administrator. When he died he left over 3,000 friars, about 500 nuns, and several hundred Secular Franciscans without a constitution. He wrote a rule for us that had 12 scripture passages and a few comments. Had it not been for Clare and Bonaventure the Franciscan family would not be around today. He was definitely a very holy man, but a very poor organizer.
Sometimes biographies and movies tend to paint saints as perfect in every respect. A similar injustice has been done to Thomas Aquinas. The man was a mystic and a genius. But he was not always right and he was not the pope. Many people try to pit the writings of Aquinas agains the teachings of popes, especially today. Aquinas was the most simple man in the world. He was obedient and at the end of his life he wanted to burn his Summa, because he said it was straw. He didn’t realize the wealth of his thoughts. Even those things that wee incorrect, opened the door for others to think about them and correct them. Maybe they would not have been addressed, had he not put the arguments on the table. So saints are not always right, But they are often on the right track, as was Aquinas.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Some biographies make the reader want to throw the book across the room - vigorously ! These are the sort that make “The Saint” (for so the hero is constantly described) seem unbelievably perfect from day one: my personal “hate” is the kind that has for its hero an “angelic” adolescent who dies young. They make them sound as though they:​

  • belong to a completely different species
  • are irrelevant to a world in which people have to work, pass exams, change nappies, work in banks or as hair-dressers or whatever it may be, & - horror of horrors - to sustain a marriage
  • are prissy nicompoops with no human feeling at all
Such books are a disgrace. 😦 They are perfect examples of “white heresy” - just like so much "pious art; the sort that pictures the Saints consumptive adolescents with lily-white hands & perfectly attended-to hair (when they have any).

This kind of thing makes the following the Christ the exclusive perserve of religious & clerics: & to Hell with the rest of us 😦
 
Hello there!

I guess my reading has been too limited. Mother Teresa is the only saint that I have read that stated she did not hear God for almost 50 years, I know that St Bernadette had no contact intimately with Mary (or) God after the visions in Lourdes. I guess the same could be said of Lucia of Fatima.

Yet did these regular people feel a stronger aversion to sin after there expierences? Did they not just follow the path of God more intimately?

I don’t think how they considered their sin life as important as the fact that through dedication to God and His Will, they became more aware of what His Will was. All saints, as far as I now, were dedicated to the Will of God and nothing else. If anyone practiced this, would they not become more aware of their sins? Wouldn’t they obliberate these sins because they stood in the way of the path to glory?

In my personal relationship with God I have become acutely aware of when I do something that I know displeases God. I feel a drawback in graces and blessings. I am more apt to think of why I want to do something sinful and how it will affect God. I truly am “regular” people. I guess I put the saints on pedestal, though I never forget they are human, sinful by nature, just like me.

God Bless!

JReducation, How hae you been feeling? Better I hope!
 
Dorothy said:
The closer one gets to God through prayer and the Sacraments, the more he will be illuminated as to how great God is, and how sin is such an evil. So, what one person may consider a slight offense, a person very close to the Lord would put God first and see their offense in a different light - that of an all-loving, all-holy God!
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I think Dorothy is spot-on. I’ve heard it said that one doesn’t realize how dirty the rag is while it’s in the drawer. Once it’s pulled out and brought into the light, it’s dirt is obvious. So we are as we come closer to our dear Lord.

God bless,
Dan
 
I believe that Dorathy has a good grasp of Mystical Theology.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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