Saints that scrupulous people should avoid reading?

[Ana_v]

If there is anyone here that is well acquainted with scrupulosity either through direct experience, indirect, or study, and is also well-versed in a number of Saints, then do you happen to have recommendations on which Saints’ writings should be avoided by persons who struggle with scrupulosity?

It should be strange that Saints’ writings would be an occasion to sin against God’s mercy or contribute to discouragement in the spiritual life, but then again a person with a scrupulous conscience is a special case of having to be on guard against temptations. The Saints’ works may be objectively good, but subjectively troubling for this or that person. Advice in this area would be greatly appreciated!! I will repay you with prayers!!

 

[Casilda]

I think you should avoid ready any biography or autobiography of any saint. If its one thing they had in common it was scrupulosity.

scrupulosity

1.having scruples; having or showing a strict regard for what one considers right; principled.

2.punctiliously or minutely careful, precise, or exact: a scrupulous performance.

Synonyms

1. conscientious, cautious, careful, circumspect. 2. exacting, rigorous. Scrupulous, punctilious imply abiding exactly by rules. Scrupulous implies conscientious carefulness in attending to details: scrupulous attention to details. Punctilious suggests strictness, preciseness, and rigidity, especially in observance of social conventions.

Antonyms
2. careless.

scrupulous (ˈskruːpjʊləs)

— adj

1. characterized by careful observation of what is morally right
2. very careful or precise

 

[Louishacker]

When Catholics refer to scrupulosity they usually mean those who suffer from a religious form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). For example, they worry about whether they properly confessed sins in the past and are still in mortal sin. Others make commit no sin at all but worry about some innocent thing they did until in their minds they think that they have committed a mortal sin. For example, they may be walking on a sidewalk and step on a crack. Then they think of the old childhood rhyme. “Step on a crack and, break your mother’s back.” Next they begin to think that they really did mean to break her back. Doing that would be a mortal sin, so they worry that they are in a state of mortal sin.

I would suggest that scrupulous people do not read the lives of saints who did extreme penances. They might get to thinking that they should do the same or worry that their own appropriate penances are useless in comparison to the saint’s.

It might be a help to a person who suffers from scrupulosity to join the OCD/Scrupulosity Forum.

 

[Miserissima]

Scrupulous folks should avoid St. Ignatius.

…and only use a form of the [Ignatian influenced] Examination of Conscience which their confessor / spiritual director has approved.

I would also advise against the writings of Josemaria Escriva, because the idea of sanctifying daily life would have many pitfalls for the scrupulous.

 

[Ana_v]

I would suggest that scrupulous people do not read the lives of saints who did extreme penances. They might get to thinking that they should do the same or worry that their own appropriate penances are useless in comparison to the saint’s.

Guilty! I think this often, and become depressed because it creates a tension between my mind and my emotion – knowing that everyone is called to be a Saint and is sufficiently aided by the grace of God for this end, but emotionally feeling inadequate and sad because I have no sensible consolation or indication that my offerings and sacrifices are of any merit. And only God knows how many times I consciously refrained from offering up this or that work or suffering on account of a lack of hope or trust in it being of any value or use.

I have had to confess envy of the Saints in Confession before! And by envy, I didn’t just mean wanting what the Saints had (which I think is properly called jealousy) but feeling sorrow for their accomplishments because I don’t compare.

 

[AussieTrish]

God has inspired the Church to canonize certain persons as saints to be an example to us, therefore we are meant by the Holy Spirit to read and be inspired by them.
To say otherwise is to contradict the Holy Spirit’s actions within the Church, the Holy Spirit whom Jesus promised to send to lead us into all truth.

Casilda has a mistaken understanding. She is referring only to one kind of scrupulosity, and quite neglecting the its other meaning.
The secular term for scrupulous doesn’t mean the same as the religious term Casilda has quoted.

An extract from
catholicireland.net/never-really-sure-the-dilemma-of-scrupulosity/

"In ordinary usage the word scrupulous means strict, exact, punctilious, careful. Thus, we might think of a “scrupulous accountant” as one who is exact in his or her work, or a “scrupulously honest” person as one who would never compromise the truth in, the slightest way. In Catholic moral theology, however, this general understanding of scrupulous is used to describe a spiritual-psychological state called scrupulosity. In this article I will address basic questions about scrupulosity.

Scrupulosity may be described as a state of morbid anxiety and fear, even panic, about sin and evil in one’s life; an abiding sense of guilt; and a feeling that one is always in the state of sin. The word scrupulous is from a Latin word meaning ‘a small, sharp stone.’ A scrupulous person is like a hitch hiker with a stone in his or her shoe – every step of the spiritual journey is painful.

Cyril Harney OP, in his excellent article on scrupulosity in the New Catholic Encyclopedia, describes some of the dynamics of scrupulosity in this way: “Scruples render one incapable of making with finality the daily decisions of life … (Scrupulosity) causes ordinary, everyday questions to be viewed as impenetrable and insoluble. Decisions require a disproportionate amount of time and energy and are always accompanied by feelings of guilt and doubt. Never at peace, the mind compulsively re-examines and re-evaluates every aspect of a matter about which scruples centre. With increasing doubts and mounting fear, the mind is so blinded and confused that volitional activity becomes difficult or impossible. The will is unable to act without immediately reacting against its previous decision.”

"Scrupulosity is a psychological disorder characterized by pathological guilt about moral or religious issues. It is personally distressing, objectively dysfunctional, and often accompanied by significant impairment in social functioning.[1] It is typically conceptualized as a moral or religious form of obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD)"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrupulosity

 

[AussieTrish]

The origin of the word arises from late Middle English (in the sense 'troubled with doubts’): from French scrupuleux or Latin scrupulosus, from scrupulus (see scruple).
Oxford English dictionary.

“Troubled with doubts” is the root meaning, far more problematic that the harmless diligence that Casilda suggests, and it is this original meaning that is applied when people speak of religious and psychological scrupulosity

 

[Julie_de_Sales]

I would avoid, for example, the book “Preparation for Death” written by St Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, because it talks a lot about mortal sin, hell and its torments, the eternity of it, etc. But it also has some good chapters about the mercy of God and the beauties of heaven, so it could be read by fragments.

I would also stay away from the sermons of the Cure of Ars (even if he is one of my favourite saints ) because he is rather severe in his statements, especially when it comes to sin and confession. I remember reading some of this sermons and having great scruples afterwards.

I guess “The little number of those who are saved” by St Leonard of Port Maurice is a classical one, I haven’t read it myself but even the title is enough to create discomfort for scrupulous people.

And I would also add to the list some lives of the saints, if they practiced extraordinary mortifications because this could create the impression that we have to copy them in order to reach sainthood.

In short, any book or meditation about hell, sin, predestination, or the justice of God could be harmful. And I know that scrupulous people in general have a strong attraction to read about things that trouble them, instead of reading about comforting subjects, as the mercy of God, his goodness, his Providence, etc.

 

[ready]

If there is anyone here that is well acquainted with scrupulosity either through direct experience, indirect, or study, and is also well-versed in a number of Saints, then do you happen to have recommendations on which Saints’ writings should be avoided by persons who struggle with scrupulosity?

It should be strange that Saints’ writings would be an occasion to sin against God’s mercy or contribute to discouragement in the spiritual life, but then again a person with a scrupulous conscience is a special case of having to be on guard against temptations. The Saints’ works may be objectively good, but subjectively troubling for this or that person. Advice in this area would be greatly appreciated!! I will repay you with prayers!!

I don’t believe that there is a Saints’ work that should not be read by the scrupulous, except for maybe St. Leonard of Port Maurice’s sermon on the fewness of the saved. But if the scrupulous person is living a bad life, then he definitely should read St. Leonard’s sermon. God bless you.

 

[Joy2day]

The problem with scrupulous people is that, unlike the saints, they dont trust in God enough, & they havent heard of the good thief (who was/is a saint by the way).

 

[pianistclare]

Excellent posts Aussie Trish!
the Saints that WOULD be great to study are those who were filled with humility like: St. Francis of Assisi, Maria Goretti, Patrick, Nicholas, Wenceslaus, Damien, those who worked with the poor and sick, who led simple pious lives. People who took their small existence, and grew it into huge LOVE and SERVICE.

 

[Bookcat]

I think you should avoid ready any biography or autobiography of any saint. If its one thing they had in common it was scrupulosity.

scrupulosity …characterized by careful observation of what is morally right…very careful or precise etc

Secular dictionaries are not the place to go often to define terms as they are used in Theology and the Spiritual life.

Such is not what is meant when by the term “scrupulous” here.

Those with scrupulosity, or scruples can tend to see sin where sin is not or see mortal sin where there is venial - and/or struggling with undue fear and doubts etc. Such is not about being “morally precise” in this sense. They ought to have a regular confessor to guide them. Some have only “transient scruples” say at their time of conversion. Others have a longer struggle and need to keep with that regular confessor for direction and even some general principles to follow. But yes some Canonized Saints struggled with such.

 

[Bookcat]

As to avoiding reading certain things - their confessor can advise them in particular. Yes depending on the person and their scruples - some readings can be problematic. For they can misread or misapply things. But it all depends on the person and their scruples.

 

[CRM_Brother]

I would have to suggest against any popular legendarium compilation of a saint written before 1800. Over the years many of the actions of the Saints have become myths that make them seem overly scrupulous, such as in the “Little Flowers of St. Francis” where St. Francis of Assisi is not immediately obedient to something St. Rufino asks of him, and has Rufino stand on his (Francis’s) head and mouth as penance, and then they switch places, because Rufino does not want to put Francis through that and also isn’t immediately obedient.

 

[Casilda]

Secular dictionaries are not the place to go often to define terms as they are used in Theology and the Spiritual life.

Such is not what is meant when by the term “scrupulous” here.

Those with scrupulosity, or scruples can tend to see sin where sin is not or see mortal sin where there is venial - and/or struggling with undue fear and doubts etc. Such is not about being “morally precise” in this sense. They ought to have a regular confessor to guide them. Some have only “transient scruples” say at their time of conversion. Others have a longer struggle and need to keep with that regular confessor for direction and even some general principles to follow. But yes some Canonized Saints struggled with such.

Excuse me, but a word has specific meaning. If the church has added another meaning to a word, then it should try another word for it. Maybe the church’s word for it should be hyper-scrupulosity? Having scruples is not bad, but being hyper-scrupulous is. There, I used it in a sentence.

 

[pianistclare]

Actually they have. Obviously you were using a secular dictionary.

From the Catholic Dictionary Online (based on John Hardon S.J.'s book, Modern Catholic Dictionary) this:

***An erroneous conscience when the mind is unduly swayed by fear and judges that something is wrong that in fact is lawful. ***

 

[ready]

Excuse me, but a word has specific meaning. If the church has added another meaning to a word, then it should try another word for it. Maybe the church’s word for it should be hyper-scrupulosity? Having scruples is not bad, but being hyper-scrupulous is. There, I used it in a sentence.

The Church’s meaning of the word charity differs from the secular meaning of the word charity. The Church’s meaning of the word scrupulous differs from the secular meaning of the word scrupulous too. There are many words like that. The Church has no need to use another word for charity and scrupulosity when she has properly defined them and made these definition her teaching. God bless you.

 

[Bookcat]

Excuse me, but a word has specific meaning. If the church has added another meaning to a word, then it should try another word for it. Maybe the church’s word for it should be hyper-scrupulosity? Having scruples is not bad, but being hyper-scrupulous is. There, I used it in a sentence.

Yes the word has a specific meaning and such is a theological term with a very precise theological meaning. Yes there are other meaning that have come into usage in common secular parlance.

The Church has been using this term for hundreds of years. Tis a theological term.

This is a Theology forum so one would use the theological term and definitions.

Hence if we discussed the Mass we would not be usually referring to use in physics: physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/mass.htm

 

[Ana_v]

I would have to suggest against any popular legendarium compilation of a saint written before 1800. Over the years many of the actions of the Saints have become myths that make them seem overly scrupulous, such as in the “Little Flowers of St. Francis” where St. Francis of Assisi is not immediately obedient to something St. Rufino asks of him, and has Rufino stand on his (Francis’s) head and mouth as penance, and then they switch places, because Rufino does not want to put Francis through that and also isn’t immediately obedient.

I think I would get very nervous reading such examples. Although on the other hand someone could argue that it is better to undergo such pains in this life as penance than to suffer torments in Purgatory. Who can dispute this? But then for them to be of any merit one has to be in a state of grace, and a scrupulous person is serially in doubt about being in a state of grace.

The truth is that I am easily tempted to despair. I remember a very dark phase last year where, among other reasons, I was overcome with grief because I didn’t think I would make it to Heaven because I hadn’t measured up to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen’s evangelical abilities and success.

 

[Ana_v]

I would avoid, for example, the book “Preparation for Death” written by St Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, because it talks a lot about mortal sin, hell and its torments, the eternity of it, etc. But it also has some good chapters about the mercy of God and the beauties of heaven, so it could be read by fragments.

I would also stay away from the sermons of the Cure of Ars (even if he is one of my favourite saints ) because he is rather severe in his statements, especially when it comes to sin and confession. I remember reading some of this sermons and having great scruples afterwards.

I guess “The little number of those who are saved” by St Leonard of Port Maurice is a classical one, I haven’t read it myself but even the title is enough to create discomfort for scrupulous people.

Oh I just never learn! Or rather I am stubborn. The first half of 2013 was Hell for be (I do believe I had a foretaste of it) and I distinctly remembering thinking to myself so many times I wouldn’t wish this pain on my worst enemy. Well, one of the impulses I had was to read things about Hell and torment because I felt guilt if I otherwise tried to avoid them since I reasoned that to do such was evasion. So I remember going to my parish library and reading through some pages in one of St. Alphonsus’ books in which he discussed Hell. One of the things that stood out to me is how Hell will be more torturous for those who meditated on it frequently in this life, because they of all people should have known better.

A few months ago – I was still in school – I remember I was reading the comment section of a blog in which someone mentioned the sermon of St. Leonard of Port Maurice on the Little Number who are Saved, and I read it and was terrified. If I recall correctly he supported his arguments with the positions of various big name saints. Somewhere int he sermon he also responds to a hypothetical in which someone questions God’s mercy and he responds by saying: Silence! Rash tongue!"

And I happened upon a book containing sermons on the Cur of Ars when again I was at my parish library, this being a few days ago, and I had to close the book and put it back because I got nervous. There was a part in their in which he preaches on the responsibility that parents have toward their children, and said something to the effect that if someone’s children go to Hell, then so will the parent. And then he warned parents about sending their children into the fields because the children do abominable things and many of them (he might have said most) make their First Communion sacrilegiously.

I couldn’t handle it. And I’m not even a parent.