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Brothers and sisters we have a problem. The Bible says in Ecc. 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
How can someone who does not function pray for us. We do not go to heaven at death.
Sinner or saint.
 
Brothers and sisters we have a problem. The Bible says in Ecc. 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
How can someone who does not function pray for us. We do not go to heaven at death.
Sinner or saint.
How do you explain Moses’ presence at the Transfiguration?

Jon
 
Brothers and sisters we have a problem. The Bible says in Ecc. 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
How can someone who does not function pray for us. We do not go to heaven at death.
Sinner or saint.
  1. Moses died (deu33:1 & 34:5) and appears and converses with Jesus (mat 17:3)
  2. Richman/Lazarus/Abraham all died and communicated with eachother (luke 16:24)
  3. REV 6:9-10 martyred souls under altar in Revelation show awareness of what has not happended on earth and ask why 'dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?.." KJV
 
Brothers and sisters we have a problem. The Bible says in Ecc. 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
How can someone who does not function pray for us. We do not go to heaven at death.
Sinner or saint.
Wow that freaked me out all I saw was 777 thinking it was my post and wondering I don’t remember writing that! 😃

The physical body is in the grave dead. Our soul and spirit go to either heaven or hell. Rev gives a good picture Lk 16:19-31

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Jesus is the only heavenly mediator we have.

Hope this helps
 
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ina the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one
Neither of which explain whether the three persons are consubtantial and co-eternal or whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son or from the Father only.

Additionally, if I’m not mistaken, the earliest manuscripts do not contain 1 John 5:7 suggesting that this verse was a later addition.

Now, which portion of the Apostle’s Creed do you object to?
 
Brothers and sisters we have a problem. The Bible says in Ecc. 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
How can someone who does not function pray for us. We do not go to heaven at death.
Sinner or saint.
I see. Two questions:

What Church do you belong to…Jehovah’s Witnesses, perhaps?

Where do we go at death?
 
I see. Two questions:

What Church do you belong to…Jehovah’s Witnesses, perhaps?

Where do we go at death?
Our bodies are either planted in the ground or are cremated and our soul and spirit go to face judgment and are then allowed into the blessedness of heaven or sent to everlasting damnation. If we are “good people” in friendship with God but not exactly completely clean from earthly entanglements we go to a temporary state called “purgatory” and then finally to heaven.
 
Neither of which explain whether the three persons are consubtantial and co-eternal or whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father AND the Son or from the Father only.

Additionally, if I’m not mistaken, the earliest manuscripts do not contain 1 John 5:7 suggesting that this verse was a later addition.

Now, which portion of the Apostle’s Creed do you object to?
Hi Randy Mt 28:19 It is significant because all three are equated as equal. God shares His glory with no one other than him self. The statement shows they are tri equal. The act of baptism is to bring one into unity. So the baptized is brought into unity with the Father, the Son and the Holy Sririt. The full defination of trinity is not wholly contained in the verse but is substantally established none the less.
 
We have a problem here. The bible should be our guide, and it does not speak of the dead going to heaven, not even the thief on the cros with Christ. I have done a study of my own and here is the first part. I will Give the second part tomorrow God willing.
DEATH: Part 1I
I grew up in a Christian environment and was taught that at death we go to heaven, as a matter of fact at any funeral you may hear that the person is with God in heaven. I must declare that that is a lie!
At death we remain in the grave, there is no spirit to wonder about or to go to Heaven. Take a look at what the bible says.
  1. The Bible never says that man has a separate soul or spirit in the body, it says that he became a living soul Genesis.2: 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Dust +breath of life =living soul.
  2. The bible states that the dead knows nothing and can do nothing. they cannot haunt you, they cannot dream you. They have nothing to do with this world anymore!
    ps 88: 10Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
    11Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
    12Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
    ps 115: 17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
    Eccles.9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
    Are we going to believe the Bible? Job describe death in Job 14:7-13 For there is hope for a dead tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the roof thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock there of die in the ground: yet through scent of water it will bud, and bring fore boughts like a plant. But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up. So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 7:9-10 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
    10He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
    Most of all look at Jesus, if anyone would have been in heaven after death it would have been Him. As a matter of fact some churches would have believe that the thief on the cross went with Him to heaven that same Friday. Look carefully at what the Bible says. Here is Jesus taking to Mary at the tomb. John 20:14-17 14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
    15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    This is very clear that Jesus went nowhere near heaven at or in death. There is another question. If the dead are in heaven why would Jesus come back for them? 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    Is it ridiculous to believe that the dead are with Jesus and He does not Know? For that is the only way that he will come for them when they are already in heaven. We must tell our children the truth when we are explaining to them about the death of love ones, telling lies would not help their relationship with God.
    Christians friends the bible states clearly that the dead is just that dead. One person once said that the safest place to be is the grave yard.
    But one would indeed ask who is that, that spoke to me? That was my father or mother or brother. Was it? That will be looked at in Part 2.
 
We have a problem here. The bible should be our guide, and it does not speak of the dead going to heaven, not even the thief on the cros with Christ. …
REV 6:9-11KJV And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 
Oh
We have a problem here. The bible should be our guide, and it does not speak of the dead going to heaven, not even the thief on the cros with Christ. I have done a study of my own and here is the first part. I will Give the second part tomorrow God willing.
DEATH: Part 1I
I grew up in a Christian environment and was taught that at death we go to heaven, as a matter of fact at any funeral you may hear that the person is with God in heaven. I must declare that that is a lie!
At death we remain in the grave, there is no spirit to wonder about or to go to Heaven. Take a look at what the bible says.
  1. The Bible never says that man has a separate soul or spirit in the body, it says that he became a living soul Genesis.2: 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Dust +breath of life =living soul.
  2. The bible states that the dead knows nothing and can do nothing. they cannot haunt you, they cannot dream you. They have nothing to do with this world anymore!
    ps 88: 10Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
    11Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
    12Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
    ps 115: 17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
    Eccles.9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
    Are we going to believe the Bible? Job describe death in Job 14:7-13 For there is hope for a dead tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the roof thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock there of die in the ground: yet through scent of water it will bud, and bring fore boughts like a plant. But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up. So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 7:9-10 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
    10He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
    Most of all look at Jesus, if anyone would have been in heaven after death it would have been Him. As a matter of fact some churches would have believe that the thief on the cross went with Him to heaven that same Friday. Look carefully at what the Bible says. Here is Jesus taking to Mary at the tomb. John 20:14-17 14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
    15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    This is very clear that Jesus went nowhere near heaven at or in death. There is another question. If the dead are in heaven why would Jesus come back for them? 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    Is it ridiculous to believe that the dead are with Jesus and He does not Know? For that is the only way that he will come for them when they are already in heaven. We must tell our children the truth when we are explaining to them about the death of love ones, telling lies would not help their relationship with God.
    Christians friends the bible states clearly that the dead is just that dead. One person once said that the safest place to be is the grave yard.
    But one would indeed ask who is that, that spoke to me? That was my father or mother or brother. Was it? That will be looked at in Part 2.
Oh yeah-JW -well known for their comforting and care of people:rolleyes:
 
REV 6:9-11KJV And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Please do not be carried away. The bible also says that Abel blood cried out. It is not symbolic. When the bible makes a clear statement all other things are to be understood in the light of that statement. There can no contradiction. We cause the problems not the bible!
 
Brothers and sisters we have a problem. The Bible says in Ecc. 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
How can someone who does not function pray for us. We do not go to heaven at death.
Sinner or saint.
Thank you for your opinion, brother. I know the Jehovahs Witnesses believe the conscious, thinking part of man dies adn ceases to exist (sometimes called sole sleep) and that thay do not go to heaven at death, but that is not a Christian Teaching, although, sadly, some christian denominations seem to be picking up JW theology.

Since Jesus Christ is God incarnate, The Word of Jesus Christ takes presidence over your interpretation of Old Testament.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures:
Mat 22:29…32 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. … have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living
 
We have a problem here. The bible should be our guide, and it does not speak of the dead going to heaven, not even the thief on the cros with Christ. I have done a study of my own and here is the first part. I will Give the second part tomorrow God willing.
DEATH: Part 1I
I grew up in a Christian environment and was taught that at death we go to heaven, as a matter of fact at any funeral you may hear that the person is with God in heaven. I must declare that that is a lie!
At death we remain in the grave, there is no spirit to wonder about or to go to Heaven. Take a look at what the bible says.
  1. The Bible never says that man has a separate soul or spirit in the body, it says that he became a living soul Genesis.2: 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Dust +breath of life =living soul.
  2. The bible states that the dead knows nothing and can do nothing. they cannot haunt you, they cannot dream you. They have nothing to do with this world anymore!
    ps 88: 10Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.
    11Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? or thy faithfulness in destruction?
    12Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? and thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?
    ps 115: 17The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
    Eccles.9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
    Are we going to believe the Bible? Job describe death in Job 14:7-13 For there is hope for a dead tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Though the roof thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock there of die in the ground: yet through scent of water it will bud, and bring fore boughts like a plant. But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up. So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 7:9-10 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
    10He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
    Most of all look at Jesus, if anyone would have been in heaven after death it would have been Him. As a matter of fact some churches would have believe that the thief on the cross went with Him to heaven that same Friday. Look carefully at what the Bible says. Here is Jesus taking to Mary at the tomb. John 20:14-17 14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
    15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
    16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
    17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
    This is very clear that Jesus went nowhere near heaven at or in death. There is another question. If the dead are in heaven why would Jesus come back for them? 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
    Is it ridiculous to believe that the dead are with Jesus and He does not Know? For that is the only way that he will come for them when they are already in heaven. We must tell our children the truth when we are explaining to them about the death of love ones, telling lies would not help their relationship with God.
    Christians friends the bible states clearly that the dead is just that dead. One person once said that the safest place to be is the grave yard.
    But one would indeed ask who is that, that spoke to me? That was my father or mother or brother. Was it? That will be looked at in Part 2.
the problem is we associate mortal life with life itself

those in heaven are not dead, they are alive. not because they do not have their physical bodies does not mean they are dead. we are alive in Christ.
 
Seventh-Day Adventist.

Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, why would you not want to state that proudly in your religious affiliation?
I wanted to be able to discuss the bible without any reference to denomination.
 
Death part 2
We have seen that the Bible declares that the dead have nothing to do with this world. They are dead and have to wait for the resurrection to eternal life or eternal death. John 5:28-29 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation”. If there are in hell or heaven at death, why do there need to be resurrected to go there?
But there are some who say that they have seen and heard the death. Some point the witch of Endor that spoke to Samuel. Let us look again.
First and foremost the Bible have clearly stated that the dead knows nothing and has nothing to do with anything under the sun. Eccles.9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun. The idea that it was Samuel that spoke is completely out of the question.
Let us look at the case of the Witch of Endor. Firstly God has said to have nothing to do with person who claim to have a familiar spirit. Lev. 20:26-27 26And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. (If it is unholy to associate or believe in dead people coming bath in spirit form then it is satanic)
27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
And Soul was to do the same but He did not, even the witch said so. 1sam. 28: 8-9 8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
Also consider this, God refused to talk to Soul, Why will God used something that He had already condemned? Verse 6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
Then this could not be of God and if not of God then of Satan. If God did not used Samuel when he was alive to speak to Soul would he used Him now he was dead?
Soul did not see anything, the witch did. 10And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. (who are these gods)
14And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
Saul did not see the woman told him and he accepted that it was Saul. Why would God allow Samuel to come from heaven to speak to Saul? Why would we want to believe things that the bible does not teach? Just because we were told so from birth or that our denomination believes it? Interesting, that Saul could say that God has departed from him. That in itself would indicate that nothing that happens here is of God, and if so must be of Satan.
15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. Soul was talking to something he did not see. This was not of God, for God said so later 1 chron. 10 :13-14 13So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
14And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
Note that it says that soul committed this act against the Lord. Who is against God more that Satan, he is behind this impersonation of the dead for he first told Eve that she would not die in Gen.3. If he can get us to listen to the “dead” people he will be listening to him, therefore when we obey them we obey satan and act against God, for satan wants our worship. If any of us come in contact with these “dead” spirit would ask them to say who there are in the name of “Jesus” we get the truth out of them, for they are afraid of our Mighty God. Do Not let satan deceive you, trust and obey God. The dead are dead. Please let us read the bible and pray that God would give us the understanding we need. God Bless.

Note: Jesus did not say that He was not the God of the Dead to mean that person’s spirit were in heaven at death but to say that death has no power that He can not break.
 
First of all you need to cite the source of your cut and paste. Second, nobody is going to read what you are posting because it is too long. Forums are places to discuss, not to ‘teach’ us poor dumb Catholics with long drawn-out posts.
I would suggest you re-read the rules of the forum.
 
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