Saints

[JRKH]

I shouldn’t jump in these things cause but I can’t help repeating the question someone else asked and it seemed to be avoided or ignored.

Christian 777
If souls are asleep and know nothing then How does one explain the fact that Moses not only appeared at with Jesus at the transfiguration, but conversed with him?

You say that when the bible clearly says something then everything else must be compared to the thing that is clearly said. Well the Bible clearly says that this “dead person”, (Moses) was awake and was able to converse with another, living person (Jesus).

I would also point out that Jesus himself says (don’t have the ch/vs) that God is a “God of the living not of the dead”.

Peace
James

 

[panevino]

Hi christian 777
ecc 9:5
seems a bit more complex than simply mortally dead and alive
ie vs 1-5discusses believers / non believers.

It is seems to me to discuss the following

1. Our works in life be it in love or hate are not known to us but are known by god… Ecc 9:1
2. When we die it’s too late to do more works under the sun … Ecc 9:4-5 there is hope while alive
3. So we better live life to the full and keep our selves pure while we are under the sun
   Ecc 7-10

 

[christian_777]

First of all you need to cite the source of your cut and paste. Second, nobody is going to read what you are posting because it is too long. Forums are places to discuss, not to ‘teach’ us poor dumb Catholics with long drawn-out posts.
I would suggest you re-read the rules of the forum.

The material is original. The only source is the Bible. I would agree with the lenght but how else could I put this information?

 

[christian_777]

I shouldn’t jump in these things cause but I can’t help repeating the question someone else asked and it seemed to be avoided or ignored.

Christian 777
If souls are asleep and know nothing then How does one explain the fact that Moses not only appeared at with Jesus at the transfiguration, but conversed with him?

You say that when the bible clearly says something then everything else must be compared to the thing that is clearly said. Well the Bible clearly says that this “dead person”, (Moses) was awake and was able to converse with another, living person (Jesus).

I would also point out that Jesus himself says (don’t have the ch/vs) that God is a “God of the living not of the dead”.

Peace
James

Note very carefully that Moses was not alone. Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Elias or as we know Elijah was there. What do we know of Elijah? He was taken to heaven in a chariot, he did not die. How did Moses get in his company? Why Moses and no other?
Jude can help us. Jud 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Why would there be contention for the body of Moses? What would his body worth? Many Scholar do accept that this was a ressurection Satan wanted to keep Moses in the Grave, conteding that he was not worthy of God Gift of life enternal. Moses was ressurected and taken to heaven this is not some ghost. When Jesus when to heaven He was the same. Remenber that Thomas could put his hand into His side. Remenber He ate. Yes God is a God of the living not a God of ghost.
Here two classes are represented. Those who would be translated without seeing death as was Elijah at Christ’s Return and those who would be resurrected from the graves as was Moses.

 

[Des]

When the bible makes a clear statement all other things are to be understood in the light of that statement. There can no contradiction. We cause the problems not the bible!

How clear something is, only depends on the individual interpreter. Take for instance the 'Father is greater than I" verse and how clear that seems to be. Then one could use that to be influenced by other verses as well and change their actual interpretation. What you do is very dangerous and can destroy the Word of God.

I wanted to be able to discuss the bible without any reference to denomination.

That’s in impossible task who comes from such a denomination to ‘not’ be influenced by it. Personally, I think you should put it up in your profile.

Note very carefully that Moses was not alone. Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Elias or as we know Elijah was there. What do we know of Elijah? He was taken to heaven in a chariot, he did not die. How did Moses get in his company? Why Moses and no other?
Jude can help us. Jud 1:9
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Why would there be contention for the body of Moses? What would his body worth? Many Scholar do accept that this was a ressurection Satan wanted to keep Moses in the Grave, conteding that he was not worthy of God Gift of life enternal. Moses was ressurected and taken to heaven this is not some ghost. When Jesus when to heaven He was the same. Remenber that Thomas could put his hand into His side. Remenber He ate. Yes God is a God of the living not a God of ghost.
Here two classes are represented. Those who would be translated without seeing death as was Elijah at Christ’s Return and those who would be resurrected from the graves as was Moses.

Just because an Angel of God was against what Satan had wanted done with the Body of Moses, doesn’t mean the Body was brought up into Heaven. You are only making a very wild assumption to disprove that verse and relying on another ‘clear’ verse in your opinion, to make it.

 

[juliamajor]

spite of Elijah’s many miracles the great mass of the Jewish people remained as godless as before; they even abolished the sign of the covenant, and the prophet had to appear as Israel’s accuser before God (Pirḳe R. El. xxix.). In the same cave where God once appeared to Moses and revealed Himself as gracious and merciful, Elijah was summoned to appear before God. By this summons he perceived that he should have appealed to God’s mercy instead of becoming Israel’s accuser. The prophet, however, remained relentless in his zeal and severity, so that God commanded him to appoint his successor (Tanna debe Eliyahu Zuṭa viii.). The vision in which God revealed Himself to Elijah gave him at the same time a picture of the destinies of man, who has to pass through “four worlds.” This world was shown to the prophet in the form of the wind, since it disappears as the wind; storm () is the day of death, before which man trembles (); fire is the judgment in Gehenna, and the stillness is the last day (Tan., Peḳude, p. 128, Vienna ed.). Three years after this vision (Seder 'Olam R. xvii.) Elijah was “translated.” Concerning the place to which Elijah was transferred, opinions differ among Jews and Christians, but the old view was that Elijah was received among the heavenly inhabitants, where he records the deeds of men (Ḳid. 70; Ber. R. xxxiv. 8), a task which according to the apocalyptic literature is entrusted to Enoch. But as early as the middle of the second century, when the notion of translation to heaven was abused by Christian theologians, the assertion was made that Elijah never entered into heaven proper (Suk. 5a; compare also Ratner on Seder 'Olam R. xvii.); in later literature paradise is generally designated as the abode of Elijah (compare Pirḳe R. El. xvi.), but since the location of paradise is itself uncertain, the last two statements may be identical.
It is one of the duties of Elijah to stand at the cross roads of paradise and to lead the pious to their proper places, to bring the souls of the impious out of hell at the beginning of the Sabbath, to lead them back again at the end of the Sabbath, and after they have suffered for their sins, to bring them to paradise forever (Pirḳe R. El. l.c.). I

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=245&letter=E&search=elijah#ixzz0ciUGmNEQ

 

[FRANKYG]

Psalm 103
Of David.
1 Praise the LORD, O my soul;
all my inmost being, praise his holy name.
2 Praise the LORD, O my soul,
and forget not all his benefits-

3 who forgives all your sins
and heals all your diseases,

4 who redeems your life from the pit
and crowns you with love and compassion,

5 who satisfies your desires with good things
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

6 The LORD works righteousness
and justice for all the oppressed.

7 He made known his ways to Moses,
his deeds to the people of Israel:

8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love.

9 He will not always accuse,
nor will he harbor his anger forever;

10 he does not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.

11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his love for those who fear him;

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

13 As a father has compassion on his children,
so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;

14 for he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are dust.

15 As for man, his days are like grass,
he flourishes like a flower of the field;

16 the wind blows over it and it is gone,
and its place remembers it no more.

17 But from everlasting to everlasting
the LORD’s love is with those who fear him,
and his righteousness with their children’s children-

18 with those who keep his covenant
and remember to obey his precepts.

19 The LORD has established his throne in heaven,
and his kingdom rules over all.

**20 Praise the LORD, you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his bidding,
who obey his word.

21 Praise the LORD, all his heavenly hosts,
you his servants who do his will. **

22 Praise the LORD, all his works
everywhere in his dominion.
Praise the LORD, O my soul.

Revelation 8:3-4 (New International Version)

3Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. 4The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel’s hand.

Matthew 17:3 (New International Version)
3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus

 

[DCNBILL]

Note very carefully that Moses was not alone. Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Elias or as we know Elijah was there. What do we know of Elijah? He was taken to heaven in a chariot, he did not die. How did Moses get in his company? Why Moses and no other?
Jude can help us. Jud 1:9

Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets. One person for each, hence no other.

The Peace of Christ to all,

bill

 

[juliamajor]

christian 777;6170584:

Note very carefully that Moses was not alone. Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Elias or as we know Elijah was there. What do we know of Elijah? He was taken to heaven in a chariot, he did not die. How did Moses get in his company? Why Moses and no other?

Jude can help us. Jud 1:9

Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets. One person for each, hence no other.

The Peace of Christ to all,

bill

Check post#46

 

[christian_777]

spite of Elijah’s many miracles the great mass of the Jewish people remained as godless as before; they even abolished the sign of the covenant, and the prophet had to appear as Israel’s accuser before God (Pirḳe R. El. xxix.). In the same cave where God once appeared to Moses and revealed Himself as gracious and merciful, Elijah was summoned to appear before God. By this summons he perceived that he should have appealed to God’s mercy instead of becoming Israel’s accuser. The prophet, however, remained relentless in his zeal and severity, so that God commanded him to appoint his successor (Tanna debe Eliyahu Zuṭa viii.). The vision in which God revealed Himself to Elijah gave him at the same time a picture of the destinies of man, who has to pass through “four worlds.” This world was shown to the prophet in the form of the wind, since it disappears as the wind; storm () is the day of death, before which man trembles (); fire is the judgment in Gehenna, and the stillness is the last day (Tan., Peḳude, p. 128, Vienna ed.). Three years after this vision (Seder 'Olam R. xvii.) Elijah was “translated.” Concerning the place to which Elijah was transferred, opinions differ among Jews and Christians, but the old view was that Elijah was received among the heavenly inhabitants, where he records the deeds of men (Ḳid. 70; Ber. R. xxxiv. 8), a task which according to the apocalyptic literature is entrusted to Enoch. But as early as the middle of the second century, when the notion of translation to heaven was abused by Christian theologians, the assertion was made that Elijah never entered into heaven proper (Suk. 5a; compare also Ratner on Seder 'Olam R. xvii.); in later literature paradise is generally designated as the abode of Elijah (compare Pirḳe R. El. xvi.), but since the location of paradise is itself uncertain, the last two statements may be identical.
It is one of the duties of Elijah to stand at the cross roads of paradise and to lead the pious to their proper places, to bring the souls of the impious out of hell at the beginning of the Sabbath, to lead them back again at the end of the Sabbath, and after they have suffered for their sins, to bring them to paradise forever (Pirḳe R. El. l.c.). I

Read more: jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=245&letter=E&search=elijah#ixzz0ciUGmNEQ

Where is this mentoned or implied in the Bible?

 

[juliamajor]

Where is this mentoned or implied in the Bible?

When it comes to the Hebrew scripture I trust Jewish rabbis and exegetes.There is no Jewish “Sola Scriptura” that is a concept they don’t understand and not in their vocabulary. They interpret scripture through the prism of Tradition. Torah and Oral (tradition)torah were given to moses on mount sinai is their belief.And that is the vehicle they interpret it by. one opinion is Elijah was “translated” another that he died and is in heaven-kinda like St. Peter at the gates.If you really want to know more about Elijah I suggest you read the whole article provided by the link.

 

[christian_777]

When it comes to the Hebrew scripture I trust Jewish rabbis and exegetes.There is no Jewish “Sola Scriptura” that is a concept they don’t understand and not in their vocabulary. They interpret scripture through the prism of Tradition. Torah and Oral (tradition)torah were given to moses on mount sinai is their belief.And that is the vehicle they interpret it by. one opinion is Elijah was “translated” another that he died and is in heaven-kinda like St. Peter at the gates.If you really want to know more about Elijah I suggest you read the whole article provided by the link.

By the Grace of God I will live by “Sola Scriptura.” Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
Keep tradition and I will Keep Christ the only means of salvation and our only example. Did Jesus use tradition?
Do you realise that you are trusting the same persons that rejected Christ and salvation? Is that not unwise?

 

[juliamajor]

By the Grace of God I will live by “Sola Scriptura.”(Well goody for you.By the grace of God and His love-I don’t and won’t live my life by Sola scriptura) Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. ( what’s your point -Oral torah was a tradition given by God to aid His people)

Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. ( toss another scripture at me that has nothing to do with the subject.)Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
Keep tradition and I will Keep Christ the only means of salvation and our only example. Did Jesus use tradition?(Actually He did-tradition is not a dirty word.And if people were truly honest they would see every denomination has tradition-in one form or another.That is why each sect is different from the other.Do all have the same hymns,prayers,ways of baptizing,style of preaching, way of tithing, day of worship etc?.No- that my dear is tradition whether you like it or not!)Do you realise that you are trusting the same persons that rejected Christ and salvation? Is that not unwise?

(When it comes to the Hebrew Bible-heck yeah! These are God’s words written by His people.They didn’t reject the OT-and that is what we are discussing here.When I read a commentary onthe Torah I use a jewish one so I can learn more about the culture ,thought processes and TRADITION that Jesus was at home with.How they studied and study scripture is how Jesus would have.And Jesus didn’t reject all tradition-come on.You’ve got national tradition, familial traditions,ethnic traditions, religious traditions-did Jesus reject them all-If he did He would have ceased being Jewish.If Jewish religious tradition is not followed -Judaism would have collapsed a long time ago.If they did not observe all the traditions of the sabbath, of holy days of ritual-do you really believe they would still exist as a people? .)

Hey-wait.I think I’m channeling “a fiddler on the roof.”

 

[christian_777]

(When it comes to the Hebrew Bible-heck yeah! These are God’s words written by His people.They didn’t reject the OT-and that is what we are discussing here.When I read a commentary onthe Torah I use a jewish one so I can learn more about the culture ,thought processes and TRADITION that Jesus was at home with.How they studied and study scripture is how Jesus would have.And Jesus didn’t reject all tradition-come on.You’ve got national tradition, familial traditions,ethnic traditions, religious traditions-did Jesus reject them all-If he did He would have ceased being Jewish.If Jewish religious tradition is not followed -Judaism would have collapsed a long time ago.If they did not observe all the traditions of the sabbath, of holy days of ritual-do you really believe they would still exist as a people? .)

Hey-wait.I think I’m channeling “a fiddler on the roof.”

You fail to realize one vital fact. All roads do not lead to heaven. Tradition is not a replacment for God’s word. Neither does tradition supersede God’s word. If tradition is contrary to the word of God then it should go You fail to realise one vital fact. All roads do not lead to heaven. Tradition is not a replacingment for God’s word. Niether does tradition superseed God.s word. If tradition is contrary to the word of God then it should be discarded, whether is is Jewish, Catholic or of Seventh day Adventist. It was tradition to sacrifice children, why not continue?

 

[juliamajor]

You fail to realize one vital fact. All roads do not lead to heaven. Tradition is not a replacment for God’s word. Neither does tradition supersede God’s word(in catholic and hjewish belief they are equal in importance). If tradition is contrary to the word of God then it should go (IF-and if it isn’t toss it anyway?)You fail to realise one vital fact. All roads do not lead to heaven.(I am vitally aware of that fact) Tradition is not a replacingment for (again they share equally importance)God’s word. Niether does tradition superseed God.s word. If tradition is contrary to the word of God then it should be discarded, whether is is Jewish,(again a BIG IF) Catholic or of Seventh day Adventist. It was tradition to sacrifice children, why not continue"]?(-an argument taken to an absurd degree-We are not talking murder -are there traditions in montheistic religions/ of child sacrifice?-No.that’s rhetoric built on straw.QUOTE]

 

[Ignatius]

Death part 2
We have seen that the Bible declares that the dead have nothing to do with this world. They are dead and have to wait for the resurrection to eternal life or eternal death. John 5:28-29 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Lev. 20:26-27 26And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. (If it is unholy to associate or believe in dead people coming bath in spirit form then it is satanic)
27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
And Soul was to do the same but He did not, even the witch said so. 1sam. 28: 8-9 8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
Also consider this, God refused to talk to Soul, Why will God used something that He had already condemned? Verse 6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
Then this could not be of God and if not of God then of Satan. If God did not used Samuel when he was alive to speak to Soul would he used Him now he was dead?
Soul did not see anything, the witch did. 10And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. (who are these gods)
14And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
Saul did not see the woman told him and he accepted that it was Saul. Why would God allow Samuel to come from heaven to speak to Saul? Why would we want to believe things that the bible does not teach? Just because we were told so from birth or that our denomination believes it? Interesting, that Saul could say that God has departed from him. That in itself would indicate that nothing that happens here is of God, and if so must be of Satan.
15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do. Soul was talking to something he did not see. This was not of God, for God said so later 1 chron. 10 :13-14 13So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
14And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
Note that it says that soul committed this act against the Lord. Who is against God more that Satan, he is behind this impersonation of the dead for he first told Eve that she would not die in Gen.3. If he can get us to listen to the “dead” people he will be listening to him, therefore when we obey them we obey satan and act against God, for satan wants our worship. If any of us come in contact with these “dead” spirit would ask them to say who there are in the name of “Jesus” we get the truth out of them, for they are afraid of our Mighty God. Do Not let satan deceive you, trust and obey God. The dead are dead. Please let us read the bible and pray that God would give us the understanding we need. God Bless.
.

Since Jesus Christ is God incarnate, The Word of Jesus Christ takes presidence over your interpretation of Old Testament.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures:
Mat 22:29…32 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. … have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living

 

[christian_777]

Since Jesus Christ is God incarnate, The Word of Jesus Christ takes presidence over your interpretation of Old Testament.

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures:
Mat 22:29…32 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. … have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living

I am sorry If you do not understand that all who are in Christ will live forever as is ment by your reference. The point is that right now there are still in the grave, all of them including Peter, Mary or any other saint. This will be the case untill Thess. 4:16-17. Until the trumpet sounds. That is what the bible teaches. Then the dead in Christ shall rise first and then they which are alive shall be caught up in the air. Why would Jesus Come bacth for us as He has promised John 14. When we will already be with Him in heaven. Think!!! By the grace of God THINK!!!
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

 

[Randy_Carson]

By the Grace of God I will live by “Sola Scriptura.” Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.
Keep tradition and I will Keep Christ the only means of salvation and our only example. Did Jesus use tradition?
Do you realise that you are trusting the same persons that rejected Christ and salvation? Is that not unwise?

And have you not done the same thing by accepting the Jewish canon of the OT developed in the second century after Christ?

 

[Randy_Carson]

You fail to realize one vital fact. All roads do not lead to heaven. Tradition is not a replacment for God’s word. Neither does tradition supersede God’s word. If tradition is contrary to the word of God then it should go You fail to realise one vital fact. All roads do not lead to heaven. Tradition is not a replacingment for God’s word. Niether does tradition superseed God.s word. If tradition is contrary to the word of God then it should be discarded, whether is is Jewish, Catholic or of Seventh day Adventist. It was tradition to sacrifice children, why not continue?

The complete Word of God includes both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

There is nothing in Sacred Tradition that is contrary to Sacred Scripture.

Feel free to offer examples if you disagree.

 

[Ignatius]

Since Jesus Christ is God incarnate, The Word of Jesus Christ takes presidence over your interpretation of Old Testament.

I’m sorry, but that is the erroneous interpretation of your denomination and it is in opposition to all other Christians, including those who walked the earth with Jesus and The Apostles. It is perfectly perspecacious that Jesus is saying that Isaac and Jacob are alive though their bodies have died.

So, if you’ll excuse me I’ll stick with my interpretation, guided by The Holy Spirit, and in agreement with The Whole Church from Christ to the present time.

If you would like to learn more about the teachings of Jesus Christ, please contact the folks at http://www.chnetwork.org/. I promise, if you unite yourself to Jesus Christ through His Church, you will experience the great gift the He has promised to those who follow Him. As Jesus said, “He who eats My body and drinks My blood lives in Me and I in him and I will raise him up on the last day.” And He is faithful and sure to keep His promises. Repent, turn to the Gospel and be saved and you will have everlasting life.

Grace and peace be with you.

Your servant in Christ.