Salman Rushdie calls for 'Muslim Reformation'

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Shanango,

Rose colored glasses won’t change the fact that the Wahhabis are the primary supporter of terror around the world. If their reform which includes attacks upon Sufis as well as a denegration of Muhammad’s role in Islam is a reform they “reformed” Islam in the wrong direction.

Dan L
 
Rushdie is nothing but a bomb chucker.

Telling muslims that they must choose between Rushdie’s vision for Islam and Bin Laden’s vision is like saying all Christians need to choose between Luther’s vision and Calvin’s. Um, no.

What muslims must do is a third way. The way chosen at Vatican II for Catholicism. Declare religious liberty to be the fundamental right of ALL men. Endeavor to CONVINCE, and forswear coercion as a mean of advancing the faith. What is horrible and offensive to God in most states with Islamic Law is the repression of other faiths; the prohibition of evangelization by those of other faiths and the barbaric punishments meted out to those who convert from Islam to Christianity.

Yup, we want to convert you. We believe that humanity cannot be the fullness of what God intended us to be without faith in Christ and the reception of His sacraments.

I know you believe the same about Islam. So why not let us agree to live in harmony and see who ends up convinced? What do you say?
 
I am a muslim and salafi and what you can call wahhabi puritanical thoughts.

The propblem with wahhabi people is that they dont exist in the sense of sect

Shenango is saying the very very truth without any rosey glasses. Believe it or not .

I am a conservative puritanical muslim who follows only the Prophet of God . I dont see any link between me and Binladen really .

The funny thing is that this word " Wahhabi" really isnt any sect or mean anything in Islam . It is the name of the man who just ALL he did he brought people back to the path of the Prophet .

peace
salam
 
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meedo:
The funny thing is that this word " Wahhabi" really isnt any sect or mean anything in Islam . It is the name of the man who just ALL he did he brought people back to the path of the Prophet .
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what’s funny is the fact that “wahhaabi” is an ascription to the word “wahhaab”, which isn’t even the scholar’s name, which is muhammad bin 'abdil-wahhaab. heck, it wasn’t even the scholar’s father’s name, which was 'abdul-wahhaab - which for those who don’t understand arabic means: slave of the Giver i.e., the slave of Allah. so in reality, the word “wahhaabi” is an ascription to Allah, who is al-Wahhaab, the Giver. not to the man whose followers they use it to refer to.

the term was coined by those who opposed the teachings and the call of muhammad bin 'abdil-wahhaab and is now used by many muslims to refer to anyone who opposes their way of thought and call others to avoid religious innovations and heresies. a good example of this is the fact that the extreme sufis in the indian subcontinent label deobandis as being wahhaabi, while the fact is that deobandis are sufis also (muhammad bin 'abdil-wahhaab was staunchly opposed to sufism), yet not as extreme as those who declare them to be wahhaabis.

no true follower of muhammad bin abdil-wahhaab’s teachings calls themselves wahhaabi.
 
Allah says in the Quran, “today I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you and I am pleased with islam as a religion.”
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RGonzales,

Mr Pinoy, how did you know that God was speaking these words? Muhammad is just claiming to have these words spoken by God, thru an angel. It is not enough for us to hear the answer “because the Quran says so…” We want authentic witnesses to bolster your claim. Not just some recitation by a man who claim himself to be a prophet.

Pio
 
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hlgomez:
how did you know that God was speaking these words? Muhammad is just claiming to have these words spoken by God, thru an angel. It is not enough for us to hear the answer “because the Quran says so…” We want authentic witnesses to bolster your claim. Not just some recitation by a man who claim himself to be a prophet.
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how do i know, my cebuano friend? via a number of different ways.

firstly, the Quran itself is a testiment to its divine source - not because it says so within its pages, but because of its perfection and unrivaled eloquence.

secondly, because a great number of truthful and trustworthy eye witnesses testify to prophet muhammad’s truthfulness - before and after prophethood was bestowed upon him - and to their witnessing the revelation being revealed. some of whose testimonies i have posted in another thread.

thirdly, the testimonies and reports from these eye-witnesses have been preserved and recorded in a manner that no other nation or religion has ever seen before - the methodology of the isnaad. a method of preservation unrivaled by any other. one you can get a brief explanation of through the course of chapter 2 of jalal abualrub’s refutation of craig winn: madinahstore.com/mercy/2.htm.

this, in a really brief nutshell is how i know.
 
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r.gonzales:
how do i know, my cebuano friend? via a number of different ways.

firstly, the Quran itself is a testiment to its divine source - not because it says so within its pages, but because of its perfection and unrivaled eloquence.
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That’s nonsense! It proves nothing. That does not testify to its being divinely inspired.😃
secondly, because a great number of truthful and trustworthy eye witnesses testify to prophet muhammad’s truthfulness - before and after prophethood was bestowed upon him - and to their witnessing the revelation being revealed. some of whose testimonies i have posted in another thread.

thirdly, the testimonies and reports from these eye-witnesses have been preserved and recorded in a manner that no other nation or religion has ever seen before - the methodology of the isnaad. a method of preservation unrivaled by any other. one you can get a brief explanation of through the course of chapter 2 of jalal abualrub’s refutation of craig winn: madinahstore.com/mercy/2.htm.

this, in a really brief nutshell is how i know.
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Your prophet killed people and had people assassinated, (nice arabic word that). :rolleyes: He even lied when it was convenient and even claimed to have had a “revelation” that allowed him to have more wives than even the Qur’an allowed! Can you believe something like that? He was disgusting and even his vision of paradise is nothing but one grand orgy!😛
 
I dont think solomon the Biblical prophet had a Grand Orgy when he had 700 concubines and 300 wives .

I am surprised of how easy you can insult Prophets of God .!!!

Whatever God wants exists.

Your claims has been discussed and refuted many times before.

Peace
 
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meedo:
I dont think solomon the Biblical prophet had a Grand Orgy when he had 700 concubines and 300 wives .

I am surprised of how easy you can insult Prophets of God .!!!

Whatever God wants exists.

Your claims has been discussed and refuted many times before.

Peace
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Solomon was a King, not a prophet.

In Christ,
selvaraj
 
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meedo:
I am surprised of how easy you can insult Prophets of God .!!!
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Ah, but you see, I don’t believe Mohammed was a real prophet at all!

Vickie
 
I am not talking about Muhammed here , i am talking about David and solomon , were they Orgy too !!!
 
Yup.

Just like David was clearly sinful when he had Bathsheba’s (sp?) husband sent of to lethal combat duty so He could cover up his adultery with her.

Now, you could argue that neither David nor Solomon had full knowledge that polygamy was inherently wrong back then, thus had reduced culpability for that sin.

But ultimately, things are sinful because they are harmful to the human soul - as God designed it. No sin is an arbitrary prohibition in christianity. Sin is virtually defined as a decision or action that damages the communion between a man and God and his fellow man.

Now, how about that challenge I mentioned above? We let you guys freely evangelize in the west and we get to freely evangelize in the muslim world. What say you?
 
First David and Solomon are prophets of God , yes they were statesmen but also prophets and God spoke to them in the bible . So basicly you are accusing Prophets of God of doing henious crimes which ofcourse they never commited. But again what about Jacob? he had many wives is that a king too?!
were jacob Orgy too!!!

I just cant believ that you guys can say this at least on some one that is supposed to be ancestor off jesus . I dont knwo about you , but in My religion we just dont profess somthing as banned unless we have proof about it . In No way the Torah or Jesus would ban a man marying mroe than one.

Well about the challenge that you say , its already happeneing .

You people think we dont have any knwoledge about christianjity here , i read the Orthodox bible in arabic in my study here and i am free to get any tapes and vedios openly from bookshops. We have radio monte carlo that always bring catholic evangelism . We debate with chrsitian copts here aboutr religion .

In the book fair here you can go and shop HUGE amounts of christian vedios and tapes and books and alot of them are refuting islam and stuff. so really all is there . You can go to any one and talk with him about christianity no problem but excuse me we wouldnt liek armies of preachers invading our country and decieving the poor woth bible in one hand and food in the other . I consider it bad really . Muslims never evangelise the way chrisians do . We just talk about religion normally as i am talking now thast all. read revert stories and you will see NONE nearly came through any organised evangelising . We had troubles with colonialism enough . Wanna evangelise you can do it on personal level .

same with muslims every where
 
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r.gonzales:
islam as a religion is not in need of any reforms, the muslims, however, are another story…

Allah says in the Quran, “today I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you and I am pleased with islam as a religion.” you cannot reform something that is already perfected without marring its perfection. and just as the quote i posted from prophet muhammad says, “no one devaites from it (his traditions and teachings) except that he is destroyed.”

the muslims need to start learning it and practicing it as it was meant to be instead of following their desires and faulty understandings - as is the case with the vast majority of muslims today… this is the reform that needs to take place.

oh and btw, the original question posted by LtTony:

was answered by my first post to this thread… :rolleyes:
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 It breaks my heart to see you in such denial about the core of your Faith.  I have studied it for the past 2 years, as I am in love with someone who was raised Muslim (non-practicing, and ignorant of it, Thank God).  I am sure I sound like a broken record, but there is so much to say that I will only refer you to the book --"The Sword of the Prophet", by Serge Trifkovic, because he says it all--the whole Truth.  Only God can make you see,  I wish you could by us Catholics trying to tell you, but you are blinded, in my humble opinion.  May God have Mercy on your soul.
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Shenango:
None. He is basically asking Muslims to stop being Muslims and become secular, like much of Christendom.
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It is ironic, because the Western Muslims( like my boyfriend) are peaceful good Muslims, BECAUSE they are secularized, and not devout…But the devout Catholics are the good holy, ones, not the secularized…get it?
 
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Shenango:
None. He is basically asking Muslims to stop being Muslims and become secular, like much of Christendom.
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It is ironic, because the Western Muslims( like my boyfriend) are peaceful good Muslims, BECAUSE they are secularized, and not devout…But the devout Catholics are the good holy, ones, not the secularized…get it?
 
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kristyn:
It is ironic, because the Western Muslims( like my boyfriend) are peaceful good Muslims, BECAUSE they are secularized, and not devout…But the devout Catholics are the good holy, ones, not the secularized…get it?
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i currently live in a western country. although i’m not the most pious of muslims, i can say that i’m practicing a lot more than most. all of my friends are the same, practicing muslims - some strong, some weak… but definitely stronger than the majority. many accuse us of being wahhaabi (as if that’s really a bad thing :rolleyes: ), while all of us condemn terrorism and many other destructive ideologies that these very same accusers (mostly “secularized” muslims) hold to be permissible… my friends are all peaceful, good muslims - not because they’re secularized, but because they strive to learn and understand their religion, implementing it to the best of their ability.
 
So meedo, you object to my claim that ploygamy is inherently wrong by noting that Solomon, David and Jacob participated in it. By this, I assume you are reasoning that these men were holy prophets and thus anything they did cannot be said to be sinful.

Are you thus saying that it is OK to sleep with another man’s wife as long as you are in a position to get her husband killed later on? (This is what David did)

Are you aware of how Jacob received his father’s blessing even though it rightly belonged to his older brother? Is it thus OK to cheat and lie in life to get what we want?

Or is it possible that the great men of the bible were subject to the same weaknesses and sins that we are and that their lives serve as examples of how much we need the mercy and forgiveness of God. And how much we need His Grace in order to be changed and healed so as to no longer be inclined towards that sinfulness.

In the same way that David and Jacob sinned by adultery/murder and lying, they sinned by giving into temptations of lust. Surely sexual lust is at the heart of polygamy. As a married man I can attest that it is beyond human capability to adequately love, cherish and communicate with more than one wife. One is barely doable!

I’m glad to hear that information is so freely available in Egypt. I am told that is not so in much of the nations east of you. IF you were to decide to become a Christian, what effect would that have on your life? How would your family treat you? Job effects? Any potential for physical harm?

P.S. I actually agree with you on the distastefulness of the WAY in which many protestant christians share their faith. Seems more like a contest where they carve notches in their belts than an expression of joy in the Savior they have known.
 
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