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robertmidwest
Guest
How are we to be the salt and light of the earth is we are constantly wringing our hands and asking “Is this a sin?”
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
If this is a rhetorical question I’d say, “Exactly!
”
But if you really are asking a legitimate question, well I really like the answer of one poster here: if you really are not absolutely positively sure it is a sin, then it is not.
The Catechism says:
CCC 1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience…
All three—reason, truth, and right conscience—must be violated before an act can be a sin. If one is not, then there is no sin.
If this is a rhetorical question I’d say, “Exactly!
”But if you really are asking a legitimate question, well I really like the answer of one poster here: if you really are not absolutely positively sure it is a sin, then it is not.
The Catechism says:
CCC 1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience…
All three—reason, truth, and right conscience—must be violated before an act can be a sin. If one is not, then there is no sin.
B
Beryllos
Guest
Indeed, the Greatest Commandment is to love.
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Mintaka
Guest
The more wisdom and prudence you receive from God, and the more education and formation and experience you have, the less you should have to think hard about whether it’s a sin or not. You will know.
Also, the more you make it a habit to do good, the less sinning you’ll do, and the less you’ll want to do borderline stuff. This means a lot fewer worries.
(Of course, you’ll notice your small sins more by contrast, since your big sins won’t be there; but you’ll know whether you’re sinning or not.)
But re: wringing hands and asking if stuff is a sin –
It’s not a good idea to reprimand inexperienced people for wondering about such things, since the contemporary world is not exactly eager to let people know what’s a sin, as opposed to what’s just not fashionable. They are asking online because they don’t have anybody else to ask.
It’s also not kind to reprimand people with the spiritual condition called scruples, because they need encouragement to consult and follow their spiritual directors. Being nasty to somebody with scruples is like kicking somebody for being depressed or having a cold.
Also, the more you make it a habit to do good, the less sinning you’ll do, and the less you’ll want to do borderline stuff. This means a lot fewer worries.
(Of course, you’ll notice your small sins more by contrast, since your big sins won’t be there; but you’ll know whether you’re sinning or not.)
But re: wringing hands and asking if stuff is a sin –
It’s not a good idea to reprimand inexperienced people for wondering about such things, since the contemporary world is not exactly eager to let people know what’s a sin, as opposed to what’s just not fashionable. They are asking online because they don’t have anybody else to ask.
It’s also not kind to reprimand people with the spiritual condition called scruples, because they need encouragement to consult and follow their spiritual directors. Being nasty to somebody with scruples is like kicking somebody for being depressed or having a cold.
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Mystical_Seeker
Guest
Would you say this applies to venial sins as well as mortal?+JMJ+
If this is a rhetorical question I’d say, “Exactly!
But if you really are asking a legitimate question, well I really like the answer of one poster here: if you really are not absolutely positively sure it is a sin, then it is not.
The Catechism says:
CCC 1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience…
All three—reason, truth, and right conscience—must be violated before an act can be a sin. If one is not, then there is no sin.
Maybe they don’t make one ineligible for Communion like mortal, but the way Teresa of Avila framed it in one quote (and I have similar thoughts) as being a “serious” matter when one intentionally goes against God – whether venial or mortal.
Usually we talk about “informed consent” but really, even if not regarding “grave matter”, would a venial sin – being a sin – still involve “fully informed consent”?
That would actually make sense to me, because I don’t see how an “accident” or a “I didn’t know” event can constitute an “intentional” sin.
M
MtnDwellar
Guest
The quote from the Catechism is incomplete. Taken out of context it has a different meaning than in the full context.+JMJ+
If this is a rhetorical question I’d say, “Exactly!
But if you really are asking a legitimate question, well I really like the answer of one poster here: if you really are not absolutely positively sure it is a sin, then it is not.
The Catechism says:
CCC 1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience…
All three—reason, truth, and right conscience—must be violated before an act can be a sin. If one is not, then there is no sin.
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robertmidwest
Guest
No. They are asking online because if they ask their pastor or spiritual director they would probably hold them accountable and tell them are being scrupulous.
Amen!!! I wonder how many pastors and spiritual directors tell people it’s a good idea to post their scrupulous questions on an internet forum?
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Bookcat
Guest
As the OP noted such is not a complete quote and thus has been taken here to mean something it does not.
The CCC even notes that right conscience is about reason…
I will add that those who struggle with scruples - they see sin- or fear it- where sin is not or see mortal sin where venial sin is. Scruples are unfounded fears etc.
It is very important for them to get a regular confessor to direct them so they may “disregard” their scruples and live yes in the truth and thus according to right reason.
They can need that regular confessor - for their own “rudder” is off on their boat (at least in some areas). They can fear rocks in the sea that are not there -so they need that person who can see clearly to direct them - as well as help them correct their rudder over time.
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Bookcat
Guest
I will re -post a past post of mine
A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?
A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).
Thus with their direction they can “dismiss scruples” (in the older language despise them) - “act against them”.
Scruples are to be dismissed ~ not argued with.
To borrow and image from a Carthusian from centuries ago: Scruples *are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * No one keeps walking.
Such ‘obedience’ to a regular confessor who knows of ones scruples (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.
Also counseling - could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)
Here was a recent post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.
ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?
A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).
Thus with their direction they can “dismiss scruples” (in the older language despise them) - “act against them”.
Scruples are to be dismissed ~ not argued with.
To borrow and image from a Carthusian from centuries ago: Scruples *are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * No one keeps walking.
Such ‘obedience’ to a regular confessor who knows of ones scruples (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.
Also counseling - could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)
Here was a recent post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.
ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
B
Bookcat
Guest
But yes together with working with a regular confessor and against their scruples - it is very good for those who struggle with such to turn their mind to Faith, Hope and Love…and to Joy.
Noting that Christian Joy is not per se an emotion that comes and goes -but can co-exist with various crosses - all sorts of struggles and sufferings.
“I realize of course that joy is not expressed the same way at all times in life, especially at moments of great difficulty. Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures, even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that, when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved.”
~ Pope Francis (The Joy of the Gospel)
“Gaudete in Domino semper - Rejoice in the Lord always (Phil 4: 4).”
“Christian joy thus springs from this certainty: God is close, he is with me, he is with us, in joy and in sorrow, in sickness and in health, as a friend and faithful spouse. And this joy endures, even in trials, in suffering itself. It does not remain only on the surface; it dwells in the depths of the person who entrusts himself to God and trusts in him.”
~ Pope Benedict XVI Third Sunday of Advent, 16 December 2007
"With Jesus’ arrival the disciple’s situation of anguish changes radically. He enters through closed doors, he stands in their midst and gives them the peace that reassures: “Peace to you” (Jn 20:19b). It is a common greeting but it now acquires new significance because it brings about an inner change; it is the Easter greeting that enables the disciples to overcome all fear. The peace that Jesus brings is the gift of salvation that he had promised in his farewell discourses: “peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid” (Jn 14:27).
On this day of the Resurrection he gives it in fullness and for the community it becomes a source of joy, the certainty of victory, and security in relying on God. “Let not your hearts be troubled”, (Jn 14:1), do not be afraid, he also says to us."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Audience 11 April 2012
“Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).”
~ Pope Benedict XVI Audience 8 November 2006
(remember though Christian joy is not always “felt” - does not always move the emotions- -nor need it do so)
Noting that Christian Joy is not per se an emotion that comes and goes -but can co-exist with various crosses - all sorts of struggles and sufferings.
“I realize of course that joy is not expressed the same way at all times in life, especially at moments of great difficulty. Joy adapts and changes, but it always endures, even as a flicker of light born of our personal certainty that, when everything is said and done, we are infinitely loved.”
~ Pope Francis (The Joy of the Gospel)
“Gaudete in Domino semper - Rejoice in the Lord always (Phil 4: 4).”
“Christian joy thus springs from this certainty: God is close, he is with me, he is with us, in joy and in sorrow, in sickness and in health, as a friend and faithful spouse. And this joy endures, even in trials, in suffering itself. It does not remain only on the surface; it dwells in the depths of the person who entrusts himself to God and trusts in him.”
~ Pope Benedict XVI Third Sunday of Advent, 16 December 2007
"With Jesus’ arrival the disciple’s situation of anguish changes radically. He enters through closed doors, he stands in their midst and gives them the peace that reassures: “Peace to you” (Jn 20:19b). It is a common greeting but it now acquires new significance because it brings about an inner change; it is the Easter greeting that enables the disciples to overcome all fear. The peace that Jesus brings is the gift of salvation that he had promised in his farewell discourses: “peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid” (Jn 14:27).
On this day of the Resurrection he gives it in fullness and for the community it becomes a source of joy, the certainty of victory, and security in relying on God. “Let not your hearts be troubled”, (Jn 14:1), do not be afraid, he also says to us."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Audience 11 April 2012
“Moreover, our radical belonging to Christ and the fact that “we are in him” must imbue in us an attitude of total trust and immense joy. In short, we must indeed exclaim with St Paul: “If God is for us, who is against us?” (Rom 8: 31). And the reply is that nothing and no one “will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8: 39). Our Christian life, therefore, stands on the soundest and safest rock one can imagine. And from it we draw all our energy, precisely as the Apostle wrote: “I can do all things in him who strengthens me” (Phil 4: 13).”
~ Pope Benedict XVI Audience 8 November 2006
(remember though Christian joy is not always “felt” - does not always move the emotions- -nor need it do so)
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Beryllos
Guest
Thank you, Bookcat, for those quotations about Christian joy.
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
Peter Kreeft, in analyzing St Thomas Aquinas’ writings, said that questioning whether we should obey reason or obey God is like questioning whether the soldiers should obey their superior officer or should they obey the officer’s orders. Reason, truth, and right conscience are the Voice of God. To disobey them is to disobey God Himself and thus to sin. There is absolutely no difference in just obeying them and in obeying God.
MtnDwellar, Christians suffering from scruples must have as simple instructions as possible in discerning what is sinful and what is not. That is why I just posted that small excerpt from the Catechism which encompasses the rest of it.
No not really.
Peter Kreeft, in analyzing St Thomas Aquinas’ writings, said that questioning whether we should obey reason or obey God is like questioning whether the soldiers should obey their superior officer or should they obey the officer’s orders. Reason, truth, and right conscience are the Voice of God. To disobey them is to disobey God Himself and thus to sin. There is absolutely no difference in just obeying them and in obeying God.
MtnDwellar, Christians suffering from scruples must have as simple instructions as possible in discerning what is sinful and what is not. That is why I just posted that small excerpt from the Catechism which encompasses the rest of it.
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nuntym
Guest
+JMJ
CCC 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”
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Bookcat
Guest
The excerpt as noted by the OP needs the rest to be understood at to what it is discussing (meaning is seen in the context).
Here is a good brief summary as to what is “sin”: from the Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
392. What is sin?
Sin is “a word, an act, or a desire contrary to the eternal Law” (Saint Augustine). It is an offense against God in disobedience to his love. It wounds human nature and injures human solidarity. Christ in his passion fully revealed the seriousness of sin and overcame it with his mercy.
And
395. When does one commit a mortal sin?
One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
**
396. When does one commit a venial sin?**
One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
As to those who struggle with scruples.
I will re -post a past post of mine
A person struggles with scruples - what ought they do?
A person with scrupulosity --ought to have a* “regular confessor” who can direct them --and even give them some general principles* to follow -to apply (principles for them due to their particular scruples -they are usually not for those with a normal conscience).
Thus with their direction they can “dismiss scruples” (in the older language despise them) - “act against them”.
Scruples are to be dismissed ~ not argued with.
To borrow and image from a Carthusian from centuries ago: Scruples *are like a barking dog or a hissing goose -one does not stop to argue with a barking dog or a hissing goose does one? * No one keeps walking.
Such ‘obedience’ to a regular confessor who knows of ones scruples (except in what is manifest sin - such as if he told them it was ok to murder someone or something certain like that) is key. Such is the age old practice.
Also counseling - could be helpful depending on the case -but one would want to look for a counselor who can assist one in following the Churches Teachings - not go contrary to them (I have heard CA staff mention catholictherapists.com/)
Here was a recent post from Jimmy Akin of CA that I saw in the Register and saved for those who struggle with such.
ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/6-tools-for-the-scrupulous
N
nuntym
Guest
+JMJ+
Lengthy expositions may be good for some, but for those with scruples it is best that they ask and we answer as simple as possible instead of an infodump.
And, as I said, is the same as what I posted.
Lengthy expositions may be good for some, but for those with scruples it is best that they ask and we answer as simple as possible instead of an infodump.
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littlestsouls2
Guest
After any fault, we should turn to God and make an act of faith and love e.g. “My Jesus, mercy”, renewing our good intentions. Love is the most powerful motive for overcoming sin, and as it unites us to God, it is also the most powerful means. Love brings peace, joy and light, without which we may be unable to distinguish between imperfections, venial sin and mortal sin.
The Devil wants us to examine our every act and intention; it is one of his tools for taking our hearts and minds off Christ. We should be careful not to over-analyse the sinfulness of things. It is much better to act like a child; we should avoid known dangers, but otherwise we should trust that God will give us a clear inspiration (that does not deprive us of peace) if He wants us to avoid a particular thing, for example.
A concrete example: You are watching a movie and an impure joke is made. “Do I turn it off?” “How bad was the joke?” “How bad is too bad?” “Where do I draw the line?” … No… This kind of thinking will lead to neuroses. God certainly doesn’t inspire such excruciating reasoning, nor does He ask us to give up everything that is imperfect. If this were the case, we might as well lock ourselves up in a room with no human contact, no internet, no forums, no radio, no newspapers - all of these things contain moral imperfections (generally speaking). Our Lord was “the friend of sinners”; He did not shun them, despite their imperfections. Sure, if we have friends that swear a lot, for example, maybe we should consider new friends (several factors must be considered), but we mustn’t over-think things.
If God wants us to give something up, He will make it very clear to us. And if, despite our attempts to inform our conscience, we are unsure, then we are permitted to follow the least rigorous course of action, provided that it is not contrary to the moral law. Obedience to one’s confessor is key. If a confessor tells us to do X, and we impose something more rigorous on ourselves, it is a sign of pride, not holiness.
The Devil wants us to examine our every act and intention; it is one of his tools for taking our hearts and minds off Christ. We should be careful not to over-analyse the sinfulness of things. It is much better to act like a child; we should avoid known dangers, but otherwise we should trust that God will give us a clear inspiration (that does not deprive us of peace) if He wants us to avoid a particular thing, for example.
A concrete example: You are watching a movie and an impure joke is made. “Do I turn it off?” “How bad was the joke?” “How bad is too bad?” “Where do I draw the line?” … No… This kind of thinking will lead to neuroses. God certainly doesn’t inspire such excruciating reasoning, nor does He ask us to give up everything that is imperfect. If this were the case, we might as well lock ourselves up in a room with no human contact, no internet, no forums, no radio, no newspapers - all of these things contain moral imperfections (generally speaking). Our Lord was “the friend of sinners”; He did not shun them, despite their imperfections. Sure, if we have friends that swear a lot, for example, maybe we should consider new friends (several factors must be considered), but we mustn’t over-think things.
If God wants us to give something up, He will make it very clear to us. And if, despite our attempts to inform our conscience, we are unsure, then we are permitted to follow the least rigorous course of action, provided that it is not contrary to the moral law. Obedience to one’s confessor is key. If a confessor tells us to do X, and we impose something more rigorous on ourselves, it is a sign of pride, not holiness.
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Bookcat
Guest
To be brief: not exactly.
B
Bookcat
Guest
To be brief: as I noted the original post was not.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Not the same.
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robertmidwest
Guest
It was a rhetorical question. I was celebrating my 500th post.+JMJ+
If this is a rhetorical question I’d say, “Exactly!
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