Salvatin

[aquinasg]

And again on the Catechism, they may be saved, but only if they convert to Christianity before they die. Its like St Paul saying that fornicators cannot enter heaven. Its conditional, that is, unless they change.

 

[Heuchler]

Heuchler, I guess that’s a possible reading of it. But what about Pope Benedict XIV in Cum Religiosi??

Once again if you read it in context,

We could not rejoice, however, when it was subsequently reported to Us that in the course of religious instruction preparatory to Confession and Holy Communion, it was very often found that these people were ignorant of the mysteries of the faith, even of those matters which must be known by necessity of means; consequently, they were ineligible to partake of the Sacraments. Although the ministers mentioned continue unceasing instruction to eradicate this great evil, yet this evil greatly distresses the people requesting and waiting for their dispensation. For oppressed by poverty and begging for their food with their own hands, they wish to leave the city as quickly as possible, to return to their homelands and marry; this is the purpose of their journey, and they are undeterred by the discomforts of public and heavy penance.

we see that the Pope was speaking of how the people did not know about their Faith and still wished to praticipate in the sacraments. And as the Bible says

Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

 

[aquinasg]

The part I quoted from says a “necessity of means to be saved”. You quote a different section

 

[CopticChristian]

When I consider that all non-Christian children who die young must have commited mortal sins, it makes me almost doubt my faith

Then you have not properly read the letter to the Romans by Paul. God is impartial. God is God of all. There are those outside the Covenant, of the Covenant, and you may want to investigate Natural Law as proposed by the Church. The Church teaches this.

 

[aquinasg]

But what about the Catechism teaching that t is impossible to please God without faith? And Cum Religiosi did say “a necessity of means”.

 

[aquinasg]

God is impartial between races of men, but not between religions

 

[aquinasg]

Here’s the context:

Teach the Fundamentals of the Faith

1. Therefore with the example of St. Charles Borromeo before Us, We encourage you and implore you by the mercy of Jesus Christ not to despair in this important work of handing on the fundamentals of the Christian faith, even if hitherto you have devoted all your zeal and care to it. See to it that every minister performs carefully the measures laid down by the holy Council of Trent and by the statutes of your synods: that on fixed days school-masters and mistresses should teach Christian doctrine; that confessors should perform this part of their duty whenever anyone stands at their tribunal who does not know what he must by necessity of means know to be saved

 

[jediliz]

St. Maximilian Kolbe and St. Edith Stein ARE Saints in Heaven and they were both victims of the Holocaust.

I was asking the OP and I was talking about the Jewish victims like Anne Frank and her sister Margot. I was asking if THEY are in Hell. By the OP’s post, there is implying that all non Christians are in Hell because they weren’t Christians.

The Jews are STILL God’s chosen people. We must remember that Jesus and his apostles and his mother were all Jewish. The roots of Catholicism are in Judiasm. The Catechism does not say that JEWS are in Hell, does it?

 

[aquinasg]

It seems to. Let us hope i God’s mercy though!

 

[Heuchler]

Here’s the context:

Teach the Fundamentals of the Faith

1. Therefore with the example of St. Charles Borromeo before Us, We encourage you and implore you by the mercy of Jesus Christ not to despair in this important work of handing on the fundamentals of the Christian faith, even if hitherto you have devoted all your zeal and care to it. See to it that every minister performs carefully the measures laid down by the holy Council of Trent and by the statutes of your synods: that on fixed days school-masters and mistresses should teach Christian doctrine; that confessors should perform this part of their duty whenever anyone stands at their tribunal who does not know what he must by necessity of means know to be saved

Sorry, that was my bad in finding the wrong section. But, once again it is speaking about people alredy a part of the faith.

 

[aquinasg]

So a Catholic needs to know the fundamentals of the faith as a necessity of MEANS but not non-Christians. That doesn’t make sense.

jediliz again, according to Aquinas, maybe angels teach them the faith before they die. I hope so. God is Mercy

 

[Telstar]

Contrary to what many believe, non-Christians cannot be saved.

Pope St. Pius X, Acerbo Nimis (# 2), April 15, 1905:
“And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: ‘We
declare that a great number of those who ARE condemned to eternal
punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those
mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be
numbered among the elect.’”

He’s speaking of Catholics that should know their own faith, but live their lives ignorant of the basics of the Faith because they do not practice it as they should. They’re more interested in worldly and sinful activities to be bothered with knowing what they should know about God. Many times these people are the way they are because they have not been properly catechized.

They may be saved, but only if they convert to Christianity before they die. Its like St Paul saying that fornicators cannot enter heaven. Its conditional, that is, unless they change. Its merely the reverse of this in the Catechism

You seem to be applying this whole letter as if he was talking about Christians in general, but he’s clearly not. The title of it explains the subject of the whole thing: Pope Pius X: Acerbo Nimis – On Teaching Christian Doctine, 15 April 1905 Through this whole letter he’s speaking about the importance of teaching Christian Doctrine (CCD) in the RCC so that Catholics will learn what they need to know, as Catholics.

Pope Benedict XIV, Cum Religiosi (# 4):
“… confessors should perform this part of their duty whenever anyone stands at their tribunal who does not know what he must by necessity of means know to be saved…”

In context:4. Therefore with the example of Saint Charles Borromeo before Us, We encourage you and implore you by the mercy of Jesus Christ not to despair in this important work of handing on the fundamentals of the Christian faith, even if hitherto you have devoted all your zeal and care to it. See to it that every minister performs carefully the measures laid down by the holy Council of Trent and by the statutes of your synods: that on fixed days school-masters and mistresses should teach Christian doctrine; that confessors should perform this part of their duty whenever anyone stands at their tribunal who does not know what he must by necessity of means know to be saved; that priests should also provide this instruction before uniting spouses in marriage; that fathers of families and lords of houses should be gravely advised of the duty imposed on them of being themselves instructed and of seeing to the instruction in the commandments of Christian doctrine of their sons and of the members of their household; that the practice of reciting aloud properly-composed acts of Faith, Hope and Charity by the priest and people before or after the parish mass should be preserved in the dioceses in which it is customary and be carefully introduced where it is not. Parish priests should not avoid their duty of at least on feast days, explaining the Gospel to the people from the altar when there is no sermon.
He’s clearly speaking of the education of Catholics, as well. More Catholics need to read the whole Catechism of the Catholic Church to fully understand it. It can clear up a lot of misconceptions on what the Catholic Church really teaches and believes.

 

[aquinasg]

Then if angels to instruct in the Faith, than non-Christians can be saved in a sense. And we were all right in a way. Deo gratias!

 

[Trevor_Stamm]

So a Catholic needs to know the fundamentals of the faith as a necessity of MEANS but not non-Christians. That doesn’t make sense.

“Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you realize that we will be judged more strictly,”

 

[aquinasg]

Telstar, your interpretation is that Pius X did not mean a necessity of means. But Pope Benedict said just that. The context doesn’t change this. You know the difference between a necessity of means and a necessity of precept (a requirement for those who know) right?

 

[aquinasg]

So Cum Religiosi and the Catechism proves my point, but not Acerbo Nimis. I rest my case. I made my concession on the angel and Aquinas thing, so nobody get upset

 

[Telstar]

Telstar, your interpretation is that Pius X did not mean a necessity of means. But Pope Benedict said just that. The context doesn’t change this. You know the difference between a necessity of means and a necessity of precept (a requirement for those who know) right?

I have to admit that I don’t know what you’re really getting at. You seem to be speaking about the culpability of Catholics, Christians and non-Christians, but you’re quoting from articles that are in reference to those who teach the Catholic Faith to members of the Church. You can’t really apply those same standards to people outside the Catholic Church that are, for the most part, completely unaware of what the Church teaches. They’re exceptions to the rule.

 

[aquinasg]

Again, you can’t say “a necessity of MEANS” for Catholics but not non-Catholics. I don’t know how else to explain it.