Salvation and the Blood of Jesus

[kellyb32]

Hi there! My husband is having trouble understanding where the saving power of the blood of Jesus comes in if the Catholic Church teaches that salvation comes through the sacrament of baptism (1Peter 3:21). He is a former pentecostal who converted to the RCC but he’s having some difficulty in certain areas of the Faith. This is the first one we are tackling for him to get a greater understanding in order for him to deepen his faith (of course it will benefit me too!)

We watched “No Price to High” with Alex Jones last night and he mentioned how baptism saves you. This is what stirred up our discussion and I couldn’t properly connect the 2 (the sacrament of baptism and the blood of Christ) even though both of us know that you can’t have one without the other.

Can someone help explain this relationship? I am sending DH the link to “The Necessity of Baptism” catholic.com/library/Necessity_of_Baptism.asp to start him off, but it really doesn’t mention the blood of Christ, only baptism by blood if water baptism isn’t possible.

In a nutshell, he needs to understand why the RCC teaches the necessity of baptism when the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all sins. Perhaps we’re taking those scriptures about salvation and the forgiveness of sins out of context. Can you explain this with more than “The Early Church Fathers always held this belief to be true”?

Thanks for your help!

Kelly

 

[zachh]

In short: Christ’s sacrifice forgave us of our sins, and through his “creation” of the sacraments we are able to atone for our sins (and through purgatory). Just look up anything on the sacraments and you should find your answer.

newadvent.org/cathen/13295a.htm

 

[Fidelis]

Let’s start from the beginning: Why do we even need to be saved? What are we being saved from? Answer: SIN

Original Sin and mortal (serious) sin breaks our relationship
with God. If we die with unrepented mortal sin, we cannot enter heaven.

The shedding of Christ’s blood – his sacrifice on the Cross – redeemed all men, closing the breach between God and man caused by original sin and our personal sins. Because of Jesus’ redemptive sacrifice on the Cross, we can place our faith in him and be baptized, i.e., be “saved.”.

To be blunt, we are baptised because Jesus taught it was the normative way to enter the Kingdom (John 3:5) and he commanded his Church to baptise (Matthew 28:19). Jesus would not command his Church to perform an empty, fruitless ritual, so we can be confident that baptism does what Jesus said it would in John 3:5 – that, in a real sense, it “now saves us” (1 Peter 3:21)

Baptism takes away Original Sin and (if we are adults) mortal sin. This gives us sanctifying grace, also called justification. This makes it possible to enter heaven—to be saved.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pug]

Here are three passages from the Catechism that you might wish to read, in likely descending order of helpfulness:

**1992 **Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.

**1225 **In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a “Baptism” with which he had to be baptized. The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life. From then on, it is possible “to be born of water and the Spirit” in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

See where you are baptized, see where Baptism comes from, if not from the cross of Christ, from his death. There is the whole mystery: he died for you. In him you are redeemed, in him you are saved.**

1227 **According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ’s death, is buried with him, and rises with him:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

The baptized have “put on Christ.” Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.

 

[Traditional_Ang]

KellyB32:

I think the problem is the confusion that might develop between the need to be saved and cleansed “by the blood of the lamb”, and to be “born anew in the waters of baptism”. They both have to happen.

I’ll just list the scriptures for each here, starting with those your husband is probably most familiar with:

John 19:33-34 The Message - When they got to Jesus, they saw that he was already dead, so they didn’t break his legs. One of the soldiers stabbed him in the side with his spear. Blood and water gushed out.

Romans 5:8-11 The Message - *But God put his love on the line for us by offering his Son in sacrificial death while we were of no use whatever to him.

Now that we are set right with God by means of this sacrificial death, the consummate blood sacrifice, there is no longer a question of being at odds with God in any way. If, when we were at our worst, we were put on friendly terms with God by the sacrificial death of his Son, now that we’re at our best, just think of how our lives will expand and deepen by means of his resurrection life! Now that we have actually received this amazing friendship with God, we are no longer content to simply say it in plodding prose. We sing and shout our praises to God through Jesus, the Messiah!*

Hebrews 10:19-25 The Message - *So, friends, we can now—without hesitation—walk right up to God, into “the Holy Place.” Jesus has cleared the way by the blood of his sacrifice, acting as our priest before God. The “curtain” into God’s presence is his body.

So let’s do it—full of belief, confident that we’re presentable inside and out. Let’s keep a firm grip on the promises that keep us going. He always keeps his word. Let’s see how inventive we can be in encouraging love and helping out, not avoiding worshiping together as some do but spurring each other on, especially as we see the big Day approaching.*

1 John 1:6-10 The Message - *If we claim that we experience a shared life with him and continue to stumble around in the dark, we’re obviously lying through our teeth—we’re not living what we claim. But if we walk in the light, God himself being the light, we also experience a shared life with one another, as the sacrificed blood of Jesus, God’s Son, purges all our sin.

If we claim that we’re free of sin, we’re only fooling ourselves. A claim like that is errant nonsense. On the other hand, if we admit our sins—make a clean breast of them—he won’t let us down; he’ll be true to himself. He’ll forgive our sins and purge us of all wrongdoing. If we claim that we’ve never sinned, we out-and-out contradict God—make a liar out of him. A claim like that only shows off our ignorance of God.*

Revelation 1:4-6 ESV - *John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.*

Revelation 7:14-17 The Message - Then he told me, “These are those who come from the great tribulation, and they’ve washed their robes, scrubbed them clean in the blood of the Lamb. That’s why they’re standing before God’s Throne. They serve him day and night in his Temple. The One on the Throne will pitch his tent there for them: no more hunger, no more thirst, no more scorching heat. The Lamb on the Throne will shepherd them, will lead them to spring waters of Life. And God will wipe every last tear from their eyes.”

We need the blood of the Lamb that was slain, Jesus Christ, to cleanse us from our sins.

Ill see if I can list the ones for Baptismal Regenaration in my next post.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Traditional_Ang]

KellyB32:

Continued from previous post - These will be the scriptures that pertain to Baptismal regeneration - In some cases, I will use some listed by Mannyfit75 in the Good passage for Baptism Thread:

2 Kings 5:14 The Message - So he did it. He went down and immersed himself in the Jordan seven times, following the orders of the Holy Man. His skin was healed; it was like the skin of a little baby. He was as good as new.

Isaiah 44:3-5 The Message
For I will pour water on the thirsty ground
and send streams coursing through the parched earth.
I will pour my Spirit into your descendants
and my blessing on your children.
They shall sprout like grass on the prairie,
like willows alongside creeks.
This one will say, ‘I am God’s,’
and another will go by the name Jacob;
That one will write on his hand ‘God’s property’—
and be proud to be called Israel."

Ezekiel 36:25-26 NJB - I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, I will cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.

Matthew 28:18-20 CEV - *Jesus came to them and said:

I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth! Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teach them to do everything I have told you. I will be with you always, even until the end of the world."*

Matthew 3:11 / John 1:32-34 The Message - John clinched his witness with this: “I watched the Spirit, like a dove flying down out of the sky, making himself at home in him. I repeat, I know nothing about him except this: The One who authorized me to baptize with water told me, ‘The One on whom you see the Spirit come down and stay, this One will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ That’s exactly what I saw happen, and I’m telling you, there’s no question about it: This is the Son of God.”

John 3:5 NAB - Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.

John 3:22 / John 4:1-2

Acts 8:36-39 The Message - As they continued down the road, they came to a stream of water. The eunuch said, “Here’s water. Why can’t I be baptized?” He ordered the chariot to stop. They both went down to the water, and Philip baptized him on the spot. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of God suddenly took Philip off, and that was the last the eunuch saw of him. But he didn’t mind. He had what he’d come for and went on down the road as happy as he could be.

Acts 10:47 NIV - *While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues[a] and praising God.

Then Peter said, “Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.*

Acts 19:4-6

1 Corinthians 12:13 NAB - For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, slaves or free persons, and we were all given to drink of one Spirit.

Ephesians 5:25-26 ESV - Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word.

Titus 3:5-6 NJB - … It was for no reason except his own faithful love that he saved us, by means of the cleansing water of rebirth and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which he has so generously poured over us through Jesus Christ our savior.

1 Peter 3:20-21 NAB - …who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water. This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I hope these Scriptures explain Baptism, and I hope these 2 posts clarify the issue.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[Nita]

.

In a nutshell, he needs to understand why the RCC teaches the necessity of baptism when the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all sins. Perhaps we’re taking those scriptures about salvation and the forgiveness of sins out of context. Can you explain this with more than “The Early Church Fathers always held this belief to be true”?

Thanks for your help!

Kelly

Hi Kelly,

“In a nutshell” - Jesus blood (death) merited the grace of salvation for us; baptism is the means He institued to bestow that grace in our souls.

Altho Jesus’ died for all men, the grace of salvation (sanctifying grace) is not automatically bestowed on all humans.

Nita