Salvation, Catholic, Protestant, or non-Christian

[wmscott]

I posted this as an answer on another thread. It was in response to a question on salvation and who will attain it. Am I the only one who feels this way or is it that we are so caught up in our own little corner of the puzzle that we can’t see beyond the few surrounding pieces?

I don’t know but it just may be me and my quirky way of thinking, regardless of whether a person is Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, or whatever religion you want to insert, are we all not children of God, were we all not made in His image and likeness? Doesn’t God in His infinite wisdom not have a purpose for all of us? Do we really live in such a vacuum that if you are not one of us, then there is no salvation for anyone who is not?

This seems to me to be a rather presumptuous position to take; I cannot see God creating all of these other wonderful and beautiful souls made in His image and likeness who lead, moral, just and upright lives only to doom them to eternal damnation. Just does not make sense.

Now there are those who do know the truth and of God and His existence and choose to openly and actively deny Him, then I can see where peril may enter into their lives and salvation.

 

[rinnie]

I posted this as an answer on another thread. It was in response to a question on salvation and who will attain it. Am I the only one who feels this way or is it that we are so caught up in our own little corner of the puzzle that we can’t see beyond the few surrounding pieces?

I don’t know but it just may be me and my quirky way of thinking, regardless of whether a person is Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, or whatever religion you want to insert, are we all not children of God, were we all not made in His image and likeness? Doesn’t God in His infinite wisdom not have a purpose for all of us? Do we really live in such a vacuum that if you are not one of us, then there is no salvation for anyone who is not?

This seems to me to be a rather presumptuous position to take; I cannot see God creating all of these other wonderful and beautiful souls made in His image and likeness who lead, moral, just and upright lives only to doom them to eternal damnation. Just does not make sense.

Now there are those who do know the truth and of God and His existence and choose to openly and actively deny Him, then I can see where peril may enter into their lives and salvation.

We believe as Catholics that Christ and his Church are one, as he taught us. We believe the Salvation comes from Jesus Christ. We do not believe there is Salvation outside of Jesus Christ. Do you believe there is Salvation outside of Christ?

 

[justnobody]

I posted this as an answer on another thread. It was in response to a question on salvation and who will attain it. Am I the only one who feels this way or is it that we are so caught up in our own little corner of the puzzle that we can’t see beyond the few surrounding pieces?

I don’t know but it just may be me and my quirky way of thinking, regardless of whether a person is Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, or whatever religion you want to insert, are we all not children of God, were we all not made in His image and likeness? Doesn’t God in His infinite wisdom not have a purpose for all of us? Do we really live in such a vacuum that if you are not one of us, then there is no salvation for anyone who is not?

This seems to me to be a rather presumptuous position to take; I cannot see God creating all of these other wonderful and beautiful souls made in His image and likeness who lead, moral, just and upright lives only to doom them to eternal damnation. Just does not make sense.

Now there are those who do know the truth and of God and His existence and choose to openly and actively deny Him, then I can see where peril may enter into their lives and salvation.

Acts 4 ;12 ther is no other name where by you must be save and that name is jesus Christ

 

[wmscott]

We believe as Catholics that Christ and his Church are one, as he taught us. We believe the Salvation comes from Jesus Christ. We do not believe there is Salvation outside of Jesus Christ. Do you believe there is Salvation outside of Christ?

So God creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them? If this is true then isn’t the Devils job rather easy and hell will be full long before heaven will be?

 

[rinnie]

So God creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them? If this is true then isn’t the Devils job rather easy and hell will be full long before heaven will be?

So then before I answer this, are you saying you believe there is salvaton outside of Jesus Christ. Yes or No?

 

[wmscott]

So then before I answer this, are you saying you believe there is salvaton outside of Jesus Christ. Yes or No?

I am saying I am having a hard time believing that God would creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them.

 

[ltwin]

Paul says it like this in Romans 1:

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen…

 

[JonNC]

I posted this as an answer on another thread. It was in response to a question on salvation and who will attain it. Am I the only one who feels this way or is it that we are so caught up in our own little corner of the puzzle that we can’t see beyond the few surrounding pieces?

I don’t know but it just may be me and my quirky way of thinking, regardless of whether a person is Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, or whatever religion you want to insert, are we all not children of God, were we all not made in His image and likeness? Doesn’t God in His infinite wisdom not have a purpose for all of us? Do we really live in such a vacuum that if you are not one of us, then there is no salvation for anyone who is not?

This seems to me to be a rather presumptuous position to take; I cannot see God creating all of these other wonderful and beautiful souls made in His image and likeness who lead, moral, just and upright lives only to doom them to eternal damnation. Just does not make sense.

Now there are those who do know the truth and of God and His existence and choose to openly and actively deny Him, then I can see where peril may enter into their lives and salvation.

Wm,
I believe that there is nothing on earth or in scripture that leads us to believe that those who are not regenerate in Christ are saved. OTOH, as God’s mercy and grace are not confined to these, we cannot know in what other ways He chooses to save His children.
We pray for His gift of salvation for all people. His will be done.

Jon

 

[rinnie]

I am saying I am having a hard time believing that God would creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them.

Who ever said he did. Here is my point bear with me. Is there salvaton outside of Jesus Christ?

 

[wmscott]

Let me ask it this way, just a few months ago there was a tribe of Indians discovered in the Brazilian rain forest. They have had no outside contact before their discovery or since. These are Gods children who He placed here on earth for His own purpose. Let’s say that this tribe lives moral, just and upright lives. Are the denied salvation? Or are the condemned to Hell?

 

[rinnie]

Let me ask it this way, just a few months ago there was a tribe of Indians discovered in the Brazilian rain forest. They have had no outside contact before their discovery or since. These are Gods children who He placed here on earth for His own purpose. Let’s say that this tribe lives moral, just and upright lives. Are the denied salvation? Or are the condemned to Hell?

I will answer you in just a second, but answer my question first. ITs easy yes or no?

 

[wmscott]

I will answer you in just a second, but answer my question first. ITs easy yes or no?

Look I know you think I am trying to play a game here, but I am not. For ME my salvation is through Jesus Christ. I believe in the truth of the Catholic faith. Now back to the Indians.

 

[Matthew23]

Let me ask it this way, just a few months ago there was a tribe of Indians discovered in the Brazilian rain forest. They have had no outside contact before their discovery or since. These are Gods children who He placed here on earth for His own purpose. Let’s say that this tribe lives moral, just and upright lives. Are the denied salvation? Or are the condemned to Hell?

the answer is that no one but God knows

The Catholic Church t eaches that anyone can respond to God’s grace, whether Catholic or whether he has ever heard of Jesus or not. Its just that it is very difficult to know God without His Church. It is difficult to know holines without ever having been in the Presence of Holiness. But if someone seeks holiness, God will make sure he finds it. “Seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened”

 

[rinnie]

Look I know you think I am trying to play a game here, but I am not. For ME my salvation is through Jesus Christ. I believe in the truth of the Catholic faith. Now back to the Indians.

Okay. calm down there big fellow, I am not trying to play a game I am trying to show my point and the Church;s point, now I can.

Okay we know there is no Salvation outside of Jesus Christ. Now GOd can reveal himself anyway he wants. He revealed himself through the Son, do you see what I am saying.

He saved us from our SIN by the body and blood of the SON. So rather people can see that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE, it does not matter.

We were saved from our SIN and can enter heaven only by the BOdy and blood of the SON.

Now Salvation is through the CC. That means Salvation is through Jesus Christ by his suffering on the Cross.

Do you get it now?

Of course the Indians can get in, as long as they except God, and it is by the Grace of GOd that he will find a way to reveal himself.

But no matter how God choose to reveal himself it is by his suffering on the cross as the SON that we gained Salvation. You get it now?

 

[Matthew23]

God brought me to His Church

and He will bring others to it as well

I was raised Catholic but went astray.

circumstances led me one wway

But God intervened and began leading me another way.

If He does this with one person He will do it w / another

He is no respector of persons.

 

[rinnie]

the answer is that no one but God knows

The Catholic Church t eaches that anyone can respond to God’s grace, whether Catholic or whether he has ever heard of Jesus or not. Its just that it is very difficult to know God without His Church. It is difficult to know holines without ever having been in the Presence of Holiness. But if someone seeks holiness, God will make sure he finds it. “Seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened”

 

[wmscott]

Okay. calm down there big fellow, I am not trying to play a game I am trying to show my point and the Church;s point, now I can.

Okay we know there is no Salvation outside of Jesus Christ. Now GOd can reveal himself anyway he wants. He revealed himself through the Son, do you see what I am saying.

He saved us from our SIN by the body and blood of the SON. So rather people can see that the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are ONE, it does not matter.

We were saved from our SIN and can enter heaven only by the BOdy and blood of the SON.

Now Salvation is through the CC. That means Salvation is through Jesus Christ by his suffering on the Cross.

Do you get it now?

Of course the Indians can get in, as long as they except God, and it is by the Grace of GOd that he will find a way to reveal himself.

But no matter how God choose to reveal himself it is by his suffering on the cross as the SON that we gained Salvation. You get it now?

I have had no doubts about what you are saying and have fully understood your points all along, I get it, actually got it a long time ago. However my point is there are those who are not Christian, isolated either geographically or by culture/society who do not have the opportunity to be exposed or immersed into the truths of our faith. There are those who lead moral just lives and who are we to say that God has not revealed Himself to them and that they have not stood in the presence of holiness. Just because they do not see and understand it the way we do does not negate their existence and opportunity to see God.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Catechism of the Catholic Church 847

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience–those too may achieve eternal salvation.​

Notice that the Church is not saying they will be saved, but they may be saved.

Everyone who achieves salvation is saved through Christ and His Church, whether they know it in this life or not.

Jim Dandy

 

[CountrySteve]

I have had no doubts about what you are saying and have fully understood your points all along, I get it, actually got it a long time ago. However my point is there are those who are not Christian, isolated either geographically or by culture/society who do not have the opportunity to be exposed or immersed into the truths of our faith. There are those who lead moral just lives and who are we to say that God has not revealed Himself to them and that they have not stood in the presence of holiness. Just because they do not see and understand it the way we do does not negate their existence and opportunity to see God.

they cant be held accountable if they have never heard the Gospel

 

[noobio]

So God creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them? If this is true then isn’t the Devils job rather easy and hell will be full long before heaven will be?

Well, I don’t think anyone is good in the eyes of God. The bible says only God is good.

Mark 10:18

“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone.

Roman 3:10

As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;

Psalm 53:3

Everyone has turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

But if a person does not know the Gospel, the Catholic Church teaches they may be saved.