Salvation, Catholic, Protestant, or non-Christian

[InDefense]

I posted this as an answer on another thread. It was in response to a question on salvation and who will attain it. Am I the only one who feels this way or is it that we are so caught up in our own little corner of the puzzle that we can’t see beyond the few surrounding pieces?

I don’t know but it just may be me and my quirky way of thinking, regardless of whether a person is Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Buddhist, Hindu, or whatever religion you want to insert, are we all not children of God, were we all not made in His image and likeness? Doesn’t God in His infinite wisdom not have a purpose for all of us? Do we really live in such a vacuum that if you are not one of us, then there is no salvation for anyone who is not?

This seems to me to be a rather presumptuous position to take; I cannot see God creating all of these other wonderful and beautiful souls made in His image and likeness who lead, moral, just and upright lives only to doom them to eternal damnation. Just does not make sense.

Now there are those who do know the truth and of God and His existence and choose to openly and actively deny Him, then I can see where peril may enter into their lives and salvation.

Salvation is summed in Acts 2:38

1. Repent
2. Be baptised in water
3. Receive the Holy Spirit and you will speak in tongues.

 

[rinnie]

I do believe in the Real Presence, though I don’t necessarily believe transubstantiation is involved. Like Lutherans and Anglicans who believe in RP, I prefer to leave exactly how it works a mystery. And I don’t believe it’s a priest who does that, but Christ Himself, and that He will come wherever two or three are gathered in His name.

Forgiveness of sins is essential of course, but I don’t need a priest or pastor for that. I can go to Jesus directly.

Could you show me where Jesus said to go to him directly and bypass the Apostles. I missed that scripture. Why did he tell his Apostles to bind and loose? Would that not be a silly thing for him to do, if he did not have anyone for them to bind or loose?

Where is it said that The Apostles forgive in THEIR OWN name. That was nor is a teaching ever of the RCC. The APostles bind and loose with the Authority given to them by Christ.

 

[pwoodfi]

15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,2 but on God, who has mercy.

Romans 9:15-16

We must go to Scripture on matters such as these and trust in what has already been given through the Holy Spirit.

 

[CopticChristian]

15 For he says to Moses, x“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,2 but on God, who has mercy.

Romans 9:15-16

We must go to Scripture on matters such as these and trust in what has already been given through the Holy Spirit.

And if you read Romans correctly The Old Covenant is dead, the Jews did not listen to moses and Paul is saying to the Jews in Romans you aren’t listening either. Nowhere in the book of Romans does Paul say to go scripture and trust. Read Romans 6. Paul says get Baptized to be reborn. Romans 7 he talks about concupiscence. Romans 8 is when he mentions the Holy Spirit. Romans 9 is a dialogue to the Jew to help them understand that their plight as the chosen does not save them in the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is at hand. Go back and look at Romans 7 the Old Covenant is likened to a marriage.

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . .This seems to me to be a rather presumptuous position to take; I cannot see God creating all of these other wonderful and beautiful souls made in His image and likeness who lead, moral, just and upright lives only to doom them to eternal damnation. Just does not make sense. . . .

wmscott,
The CCC answers your question:

**PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH

SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE

Wounds to unity
**

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819** "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.”**274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

The Church and non-Christians

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."325

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 "the first to hear the Word of God."327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”,328 "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."329

840 And when one considers the future, God’s People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330

842 The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."332

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

**847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338 **

Peace,
Anna

 

[cooterhein]

So God creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them? If this is true then isn’t the Devils job rather easy and hell will be full long before heaven will be?

I suppose one path is comparatively narrow while the other is more broad.

 

[James_Least]

Jesus said in John 14:6, “I AM the way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to The Father except by Me.” How is that for straight and narrow? He went on to say,“All others are thieves and robbers, do not believe them”; to make sure there is no confusion. The world population has produced since Adam and Eve two kinds of children: children of God and children of the Devil(the descendants of Cain). All had the sin nature of Adam.

Re: the Flood of Noah drowned a multitude save eight: Noah and his family. Noah had warned for 120 years–nobody listened. The scripture says, “It repented God that He had made man.” Since the Flood, Mankind has demonstrated much more depravity than holiness, including the crucifixion of the Lamb of God.

Somehow, Man still thinks he can save himself. The world is full of religion–man made to be sure. Jesus came to set the record straight. He has done that.

The latest man made religion: Humanism–not really new–just different facade.

John 14:6 is still in effect.

Peace,

James Least

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . .The world population has produced since Adam and Eve two kinds of children: children of God and children of the Devil(the descendants of Cain). . . . .

Seriously, James, are you really claiming that all the descendants of Cain are children of the Devil?

Anna

 

[perro_sarnoso]

The most effective [tool] against the rampant evil and demonic chaos going on in the world today is: The Catholic Church!!

Every other “christian” denomination is giving in to comprimise and middle ground on moral, ethical and religious issues affecting our society today.

Don’t even get me started on Muslims who can’t even bear the thought of the existence of a little Jewish state the size of New Jersey or El Salvador.

So small!!! yet and entire muslim coalition couldn’t throw it into the sea. Imagen that, …you don’t even have to be the size of the United States to be powerful…because these are God’s people!!!

I am livid.

 

[CopticChristian]

So God creates billions of souls (non-Christian) in his image and likeness who lead moral, just and upright lives only to destroy them? If this is true then isn’t the Devils job rather easy and hell will be full long before heaven will be?

You do not understand Paul and the Church. Paul and the Church believe that there is such a thing as natural law. There are those in the covenant and those outside the covenant. Outside the covenant in some mysterious way those that follow the natural moral law are just as if in the covenant. The problem is this. Now that you know that there is a New Covenant you have to ask just like Paul explained to the Jews how to get in on the action. The dilema is that once you know that there is a New Covenant, Baptism puts you into it then your obligation is to try to understand what the Church has taught for 2000 years and what Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and Luther taught that led some astray. The onus is not on the Church, it is not on God, God gives us free will and expects us to exercise it.

 

[CopticChristian]

Jesus said in John 14:6, “I AM the way, the Truth and the Life; no one comes to The Father except by Me.” How is that for straight and narrow? He went on to say,“All others are thieves and robbers, do not believe them”; to make sure there is no confusion. The world population has produced since Adam and Eve two kinds of children: children of God and children of the Devil(the descendants of Cain). All had the sin nature of Adam.

Re: the Flood of Noah drowned a multitude save eight: Noah and his family. Noah had warned for 120 years–nobody listened. The scripture says, “It repented God that He had made man.” Since the Flood, Mankind has demonstrated much more depravity than holiness, including the crucifixion of the Lamb of God.

Somehow, Man still thinks he can save himself. The world is full of religion–man made to be sure. Jesus came to set the record straight. He has done that.

The latest man made religion: Humanism–not really new–just different facade.

John 14:6 is still in effect.

Peace,

James Least

You may want to look at the book of Romans again. By one man sin entered the world. By one mans obedience we were made righteous. You are correct in that we are children of Adam. The Jews wanted to claim their ancestory to Abraham. We are declared to be Children of God in the New Covenant. In the Old Covenant God is not Father, we become children of God in the New Covenant, through Christ, by Baptism and the Holy Spirit. You’re getting it.