Salvation For Hardened Sinners

  • Thread starter Thread starter gardienbleu
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gardienbleu

Guest
Can a Christian persevere in deliberate sin until the hour of death in the hope of being saved by a deathbed confession/profession of faith? For Catholics, does Last Rites unconditionally guarantee salvation after a life of neglected spirituality and mortal sin?

What about Catholics who view confession as a spiritual laundry service? They plan to get dirty, really dirty, during the work week, drop off their sins in the confessional on Saturday, and sport a clean soul just long enough receive Communion during Sunday Mass. It’s wash, rinse and repeat week after week. In other words, such Roman Catholics deliberately live like Romans Monday-Friday, go through the motions of being Catholic Saturday-Sunday, and hope that at the end of their lives, with a final Confession, they can keep their spiritual garments clean just long enough to slip by St. Peter and be admitted to the wedding feast of the Lamb.

God pleads with us through his saints and His Church to embrace Him as a God of mercy during our lives precisely because He is a God of justice at our deaths. While anything is possible with God, here is what some saints have said about the probability of deathbed conversions of hardened sinners.

St. Augustine
“He who is abandoned by sin before he abandons it, will scarcely detest it as he ought at the hour of death; for he will then detest it, not through a hatred of sin, but through necessity.”

St. Alphonsus Liguori
“The dying sinner will confess his sins, but, according to St. Augustine, ‘The repentance which is sought from a sick man is infirm.’ And St. Jerome says, that ‘Of a hundred thousand sinners who continue till death in the state of sin, scarcely one shall be saved.’ St. Vincent Ferrer writes, that ‘It is a greater miracle to save such sinners, than to raise the dead to life.’ They shall feel convinced of the evil they have done; they will wish, but shall not be able, to detest it.” Sermon XXXVIII.-On The Death of The Sinner

“Miserable the sick man who takes to his bed in the state of mortal sin! He that lives in sin till death shall die in sin. ‘You shall die in your sin.’ (John viii 21) It is true, that in whatsoever hour the sinner is converted, God promises to pardon him; but to no sinner has God promised the grace of conversion at the hour of death. ‘Seek the Lord while he may be found.’ (Isaiah iv 6) Then, there is for some sinners a time when they shall seek God and shall not find him. ‘You shall seek me, and shall not find me.’ (John vii 34) The unhappy beings will go to confession at the hour of death; they will promise and weep, and ask mercy of God, but without knowing what they do.” Sermon XXXVIII.-On The Death of The Sinner

“It is often said of a person that he led a bad life, but afterwards died a good death; that by his sighs and tears he gave proofs of sincere repentance. ‘The wailing of such persons proceeds not from sorrow for their sins, but from the fear of imminent death. He was not afraid of sinning, but of burning,’ says St. Augustine…It may be said that he appeared to have a sincere sorrow for the wickedness of his past life. But, was his sorrow true sorrow? The devil persuades him that the wish to have sorrow is true sorrow; but he deceives him. The dying man will say: ‘I am sorry from the bottom of my heart,’ etc,; but these words shall come from a heart of stone. ‘From the midst of the rocks they shall give forth their voices.’ (Psalms ciii. 12) But he has frequently been at confession, and has received all the sacraments; he has died in perfect resignation. Ah! the criminal who goes to be executed, appears to be perfectly resigned: but why? Because he cannot escape from the officers of justice, who bring him in chains to the place of execution.” Sermon LI.-Straits And Anguish of Dying Christians Who Have Been Negligent During Life About The Duties of Religion

“At the hour of death sinful actions cannot be committed; but we may then be guilty of sins of thought; and he who has had a habit of consenting to bad thoughts during life, will be in danger of indulging in them at death; for then the temptations of the devil are most violent. Knowing that he has but little time to gain the soul he makes great efforts to bring her into sin.” XLVII.-On Bad Thoughts

St. Faustina
“I often attend upon the dying and through entreaties obtain for them trust in God’s mercy, and I implore God for an abundance of divine grace, which is always victorious. God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illuminated by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things. Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy! But – horror! – There are also souls who voluntarily and consciously reject and scorn this grace! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God. But sometimes, the obduracy in souls is so great that consciously they choose hell; they thus make useless all the prayers that other souls offer to God for them and even the efforts of God himself…”
 
Hopefully you are sincerely unclear as to Catholic teaching on this subject. If that’s the case then I suggest you contact a priest or at least move this thread to the apologetics board where someone should be able to guide you. As you introduced this thread on the politics board I fear this may be nothing more than a veiled defence of the abortionist, Teddy Kennedy. Hopefully, I’m wrong.
 
Can a Christian persevere in deliberate sin until the hour of death in the hope of being saved by a deathbed confession/profession of faith? For Catholics, does Last Rites unconditionally guarantee salvation after a life of neglected spirituality and mortal sin?

What about Catholics who view confession as a spiritual laundry service? They plan to get dirty, really dirty, during the work week, drop off their sins in the confessional on Saturday, and sport a clean soul just long enough receive Communion during Sunday Mass. It’s wash, rinse and repeat week after week. In other words, such Roman Catholics deliberately live like Romans Monday-Friday, go through the motions of being Catholic Saturday-Sunday, and hope that at the end of their lives, with a final Confession, they can keep their spiritual garments clean just long enough to slip by St. Peter and be admitted to the wedding feast of the Lamb.

God pleads with us through his saints and His Church to embrace Him as a God of mercy during our lives precisely because He is a God of justice at our deaths. While anything is possible with God, here is what some saints have said about the probability of deathbed conversions of hardened sinners.

St. Augustine
“He who is abandoned by sin before he abandons it, will scarcely detest it as he ought at the hour of death; for he will then detest it, not through a hatred of sin, but through necessity.”

St. Alphonsus Liguori
“The dying sinner will confess his sins, but, according to St. Augustine, ‘The repentance which is sought from a sick man is infirm.’ And St. Jerome says, that ‘Of a hundred thousand sinners who continue till death in the state of sin, scarcely one shall be saved.’ St. Vincent Ferrer writes, that ‘It is a greater miracle to save such sinners, than to raise the dead to life.’ They shall feel convinced of the evil they have done; they will wish, but shall not be able, to detest it.” Sermon XXXVIII.-On The Death of The Sinner

“Miserable the sick man who takes to his bed in the state of mortal sin! He that lives in sin till death shall die in sin. ‘You shall die in your sin.’ (John viii 21) It is true, that in whatsoever hour the sinner is converted, God promises to pardon him; but to no sinner has God promised the grace of conversion at the hour of death. ‘Seek the Lord while he may be found.’ (Isaiah iv 6) Then, there is for some sinners a time when they shall seek God and shall not find him. ‘You shall seek me, and shall not find me.’ (John vii 34) The unhappy beings will go to confession at the hour of death; they will promise and weep, and ask mercy of God, but without knowing what they do.” Sermon XXXVIII.-On The Death of The Sinner

“It is often said of a person that he led a bad life, but afterwards died a good death; that by his sighs and tears he gave proofs of sincere repentance. ‘The wailing of such persons proceeds not from sorrow for their sins, but from the fear of imminent death. He was not afraid of sinning, but of burning,’ says St. Augustine…It may be said that he appeared to have a sincere sorrow for the wickedness of his past life. But, was his sorrow true sorrow? The devil persuades him that the wish to have sorrow is true sorrow; but he deceives him. The dying man will say: ‘I am sorry from the bottom of my heart,’ etc,; but these words shall come from a heart of stone. ‘From the midst of the rocks they shall give forth their voices.’ (Psalms ciii. 12) But he has frequently been at confession, and has received all the sacraments; he has died in perfect resignation. Ah! the criminal who goes to be executed, appears to be perfectly resigned: but why? Because he cannot escape from the officers of justice, who bring him in chains to the place of execution.” Sermon LI.-Straits And Anguish of Dying Christians Who Have Been Negligent During Life About The Duties of Religion

“At the hour of death sinful actions cannot be committed; but we may then be guilty of sins of thought; and he who has had a habit of consenting to bad thoughts during life, will be in danger of indulging in them at death; for then the temptations of the devil are most violent. Knowing that he has but little time to gain the soul he makes great efforts to bring her into sin.” XLVII.-On Bad Thoughts

St. Faustina
“I often attend upon the dying and through entreaties obtain for them trust in God’s mercy, and I implore God for an abundance of divine grace, which is always victorious. God’s mercy sometimes touches the sinner at the last moment in a wondrous and mysterious way. Outwardly, it seems as if everything were lost, but it is not so. The soul, illuminated by a ray of God’s powerful final grace, turns to God in the last moment with such a power of love that, in an instant, it receives from God forgiveness of sin and punishment, while outwardly it shows no sign either of repentance or of contrition, because souls [at that stage] no longer react to external things. Oh, how beyond comprehension is God’s mercy! But – horror! – There are also souls who voluntarily and consciously reject and scorn this grace! Although a person is at the point of death, the merciful God gives the soul that interior vivid moment, so that if the soul is willing, it has the possibility of returning to God. But sometimes, the obduracy in souls is so great that consciously they choose hell; they thus make useless all the prayers that other souls offer to God for them and even the efforts of God himself…”
My dear friend

I agree about dying as we live-as a general statement. It’s very hard to get into heaven apparently. But if we do what our Lord and our Lady tell us like the first friday or first saturday devotion, wear the brown scapular and do what’s required and other devotions they’ve given us we can be very confident of heaven. The sad fact is very few do the little that is necessary to get into heaven. It seems to be too hard. If we sin we do not love. Sin is the opposite of love. To get into heaven we must have love ( grace is the living love which is God ) in our souls. No love,no heaven.Presumption is a very big problem. I think people don’t realise that the equilibrium will not let us into heaven if we have no love in us when we die. People righty think God is mercy and love and cannot punish them. But the equibrium has no free will and does punish with spiritual fire and other means.I think we’d be lucky if 1 in 20 normal healthy people living to an old age today die and go to heaven. We should not be presumptuous.

God bless you dear friend 👍🙂

John
 
Hopefully you are sincerely unclear as to Catholic teaching on this subject. If that’s the case then I suggest you contact a priest or at least move this thread to the apologetics board where someone should be able to guide you. As you introduced this thread on the politics board I fear this may be nothing more than a veiled defence of the abortionist, Teddy Kennedy. Hopefully, I’m wrong.
The reference thread on the politics board leading here was for those who wish to discuss the salvation of hardened sinners in general, since some posters have taken to discussing Kennedy’s salvation specifically. Judgments about the condition of the souls of the departed work both ways; they are committed by those who claim a person is saved just because that person received Last Rites, and by those who maintain that a person was such a grievous sinner throughout life that there can be no hope of a last minute conversion of heart. Regarding claims about Kennedy’s soul, I’ve seen several of the former but none of the latter. I make no judgment either way and simply hope that he had a conversion of heart and valid Last Rites.

It is my understanding that sincere attrition (at the least) or contrition (at best) is necessary for a valid confession. The aforementioned saints issued dire warnings about the presumption of salvation on one’s deathbed.
 
Can a Christian persevere in deliberate sin until the hour of death in the hope of being saved by a deathbed confession/profession of faith? For Catholics, does Last Rites unconditionally guarantee salvation after a life of neglected spirituality and mortal sin?
What about Catholics who view confession as a spiritual laundry service? They plan to get dirty, really dirty, during the work week, drop off their sins in the confessional on Saturday, and sport a clean soul just long enough receive Communion during Sunday Mass. It’s wash, rinse and repeat week after week. In other words, such Roman Catholics deliberately live like Romans Monday-Friday, go through the motions of being Catholic Saturday-Sunday, and hope that at the end of their lives, with a final Confession, they can keep their spiritual garments clean just long enough to slip by St. Peter and be admitted to the wedding feast of the Lamb.
Think about these things from two perspectives; first, God is Just; second, part of valid Reconciliation is an earnest desire to turn away from sin.

How would you respond to your child if he/she willfully disobeyed you all week long, expressing remorse 10 minutes before it’s time to give them their allowance? Would you think they are sincere? Further, what would you imagine is the just thing to do in such circumstances? Even our human sense of justness tells us there is something fundamentally wrong with that approach. How much more will an all-knowing, just God be able to see through the ruse?

Reconciliation becomes a very gray area and could be invalid if one tries to play games with it. God is not fooled, He will not be mocked, and knows every intention of one’s heart. If, to use your term, one imagines it is some kind of “spiritual laundry service” where there is willful intent to go right back out and commit the same sins all over again, then where is the turning away from, the contrite rejection of the sins in the first place?

None of us are fully capable of being God’s spokesperson in this matter, we can’t say for certain if something in one person will merit undeserved mercy or not, but we can conclude anyone who looks at their faith this way is playing with spiritual fire, and might just end up in it for all eternity. That’s a big gamble to take, IMHO.
 
None of us are fully capable of being God’s spokesperson in this matter, we can’t say for certain if something in one person will merit undeserved mercy or not, but we can conclude anyone who looks at their faith this way is playing with spiritual fire, and might just end up in it for all eternity. That’s a big gamble to take, IMHO.
Well stated. 👍
 
Galatians 6:7 *Make no mistake: God is not mocked, for a person will reap only what he sows, **8 *because the one who sows for his flesh will reap corruption from the flesh, but the one who sows for the spirit will reap eternal life from the spirit.

Hebrews 4: 4 *For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit **5 **and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, **6 **and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt. **7 **Ground that has absorbed the rain falling upon it repeatedly and brings forth crops useful to those for whom it is cultivated receives a blessing from God. **8 *But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected; it will soon be cursed and finally burned.

There is a basic principle of cause and effect of sin. Sin not only results in judgement, but also damages the relationship with God. We are not like the angels and the demons whose will is fixed. Even though most hardened sinner can receive grace. However, if we continue to innoculate ourselves against grace by embracing sin and rejecting God, it is we who harden or hearts and seal our destiny.

It has been in vogue in this generation to see that most are going to heaven, even though Jesus said, “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.” (Matthew 7:13-14). I believe we do a spiritual disservice and tread on the dangerous ground of presumption when we open heaven’s gate so wide to include many hardened sinners.

Yes, we always have hope. Yes, we can always trust in God’s mercy. But if we live our lives (and encourage others to live) in such a way as to presume that this mercy will be there at the end, our “sin for a season” may so harden us as to be a vessel too proud to receive it.

We must live everyday conscious of Hell. We must number our days and gain the wisdom to run our race at all times. Mostly, we must not persuade others in the name of comfort that it really does not matter and that regardless of how we live, God will grant us a free pass.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top