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YendisAgev
Guest
So it’s okay for a man (the Pope [notice the respectful capitalization]) to claim that Jews enter heaven after rejecting God himself (Jesus)?
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PRmerger
Guest
If you could provide the quote from the Holy Father’s writings, that would be great.
I guarantee you that you will not find the Holy Father claiming that Jews enter heaven after rejecting God himself.
The vatican website is one of my faves, BTW, and you won’t find him there anywhere saying that Jews enter heaven after rejecting God. :nope:
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YendisAgev
Guest
This quote is from:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/pcb_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20020212_popolo-ebraico_en.html
This is the quote:
“Christians can and ought to admit that the Jewish reading of the Bible is a possible one…”
In the book, God and the World he writes,“They [Jews] are not excluded from salvation.” p.209
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PRmerger
Guest
Okay…and?
And? Where’s the part where it says that can get into heaven while rejecting God? :coffeeread:
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Dhugz
Guest
I think, many also will go to heaven outside of the Church. There is a condition that those who reaaly not heard the teachings the Catholic Church, those who are forbidden to join the Catholic Faith,.
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YendisAgev
Guest
It’s been a while, I forget. The point is the RCC in recent years has stated that the Church believes non-christian can be saved.
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/v1.html#Church
“The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church.”
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Eric_Hilbert
Guest
Thread pruned.
Please, when we have anti-Catholic overnight trolls, report them.
Please, when we have anti-Catholic overnight trolls, report them.
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Kristin234
Guest
How frustrating that this statement this isn’t considered anti-Protestant, but the minute someone switches OSAS to something like the Eucharist or some other word everyone will be up in arms, that poster will be banned, etc. Just goes to show how “fair” this forum is.
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Trebor135
Guest
Actually, Catholics are banned fairly often for being uncharitable.
The poster you quoted must have been referring to the consequences of OSAS as some Evangelical Protestants propound the doctrine. Under this framework, God will completely ignore even the grave sins that a “Christian” will not repent of because the individual has at one point declared their faith in Jesus Christ.
If OSAS is erroneous, as it indeed is, many “Christians” are potentially going to have a lot of explaining to do on Judgment Day. To sin and repent is one thing; to sin and fail to seek forgiveness (one way to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) is another.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Are there different meanings to OSAS? 
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Trebor135
Guest
Yes. According to the original, Reformed (Calvinist) form of OSAS, the elect can never lose their salvation, and the elect’s status is revealed by their living a good life. So, if an individual professes to be Christian but knowingly, indifferently, and stubbornly commits grave sins, he is very unlikely to be part of the elect–barring some drastic changes in attitude and conduct later on.Are there different meanings to OSAS?
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Is there another version, or thats it?
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Trebor135
Guest
The version adhered to by some (ultimately Calvinist-influenced) Evangelical Protestants holds that, if an individual at one point in his life commits to following Jesus Christ, his salvation can never be lost under any circumstances, including a total lack of interest on his part in even working to combat impurity, anger, and other serious sins.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Thanks Trebor, your a gentleman and a scholar.
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Trebor135
Guest
Well, thank you. You’re too kind.Thanks Trebor, your a gentleman and a scholar.
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grandfather
Guest
Kristin,
There are two possibilities regarding the Calvinsit doctrine or notion that salvation can not be lost.
It is true or false.
If it is true then the people who profess that to be saved and assured of salvation all anyone needs to do is recognize that he or she is a sinner, ask Jesus into their hearts, and maybe say the sinner’sa prayer and salvation is guaranteed.
If it is false and you are a Christian and you believe this false doctine what are the consequences?
If you are unrepentant and engaged in very serious sin, you will still believe your salvation is guaranteed. Your soul can not be lost. Nothing you do no matter how evil will cause you to be separated from God eternally. You may know you are doing something wrong, but believe somehow it is acceptable to God, or your soul is acceptable to God even though you are doing evil.
Many people are in this situation beliving OSAS…
OSAS is a doctrine that makes sense if one believes Luther’s doctrine that we are saved by faith alone. All you have to do is have faith, believe, that Jesus died for your sins and you are saved. Catholicism teaches that we must believe, have faith in God, hope in Him and love, faith, hope and love being the theological virtues. Think of Jesus’s two commandments, love God and neighbor. Our purpose to exist is to love and be loved. We can not be saved without love if Catholics are right.
But if one believes all that is necessary is faith then it is logical that one might believe that no evil deed or amount of evil deeds will cause you to lose your salvation. If people believe this and it is false then they are in grave danger. They might not even give a second thought to being in an adulterous relationship, or cheating a relative out of inheritance. I know a woman who had her get saved experience and subsequently had three abortions. She knew this was wrong, but believed she was headed straight for heaven, no doubt about it, because she was saved, accepted Jesus as her personal lord and savior.
Truly, I hope she does end up in heaven. I pray she does. I pray she repents of her sin and sins no more, which is also how I look at myself.
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Trebor135
Guest
We shouldn’t blame Calvin for the kind of OSAS you describe–he definitely didn’t believe in that teaching, which represents a corruption of his perseverance of the saints doctrine.
Scary stuff.
Luther didn’t believe in the warped kind of OSAS you’re responding to, either. He held that a true, saving faith would necessarily include good works.
Misunderstanding sola fide is definitely threatening to the soul.
Indeed.
Wow, that’s… horrifying.
Amen.
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grandfather
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JaKael02
Guest
What does OSAS stand for again?
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Jesusismyfriend
Guest
Well, about the question anout the Jews going to heaven, I will say one thing. Christ often spoke against the hypocrisy of the Pharisees which were a kind of Jewish leader. The way he spoke to them, they would not be saved unless they repented and got “their act” together.
I think many Jews will go to heaven, because many of them will go against the Pharisee’s teachings and have faith. Because the Pharisees were convinced their works (and only their works) would get them to heaven. By faith, many were saved whom you wouldn’t expect to be. Paul turned from killing Christians to becoming one himself. So I think faith in Christ is necessary for their salvation, just as it is for us. If someone is living the Jewish lifestyle because of their faith, they will eventually believe in Christ.
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