Salvation free Gift?

[dattaswami]

A Christian devotee, Anil Antony, asked Me some questions just now. He asked whether the salvation is a free gift of God and not based on the work. This is the climax of foolishness. Even in the worldly affairs, a selection board sits and filters the deserving candidate to give the gift. If any body in this world gives a free gift without seeing the deserving qualifications, people will call him as a full mad person. Do you treat God as mad person, who is wiser than the wisest in this world? Jesus asked His devotees to go to villages and propagate His knowledge. Even today the Christian fathers wander all over the earth and they are propagating the diving knowledge by constant lecturers. Is this not work? If salvation is a free gift why should they work? How much divine work Jesus carried on? In Hinduism you can support free gift by saying that a soul might have done lot of good work in the previous birth and the gift may appear as free gift because the soul did not perform any good work in this birth. But Christianity does not believe the re-birth and therefore such possibility of explanation is also ruled out here.

His another question is that Christianity encourages the praise and prayer of the Lord for certain materialistic benefits. He asks whether such prayer is correct. The answer is that such a stage is not incorrect but it is a lower stage. The LKG class is the beginning of school education. You cannot say that LKG is class is not correct. It is correct but it is lowest. The first step is true but is the lowest step existing on the ground. If you take the case of Jesus, He is in the highest step. He also praised and prayed the Lord but never asked anything for himself. He asked any thing only for the propagation of the fame of the Lord. The lowest step is certainly better than the pit, which is lower than the ground. Thus the beginner is certainly better than the atheist, who does not believe God at all. Even though the beginner is selfish, at least he believes the existence of God.

 

[D_Quintero]

bump

 

[Contarini]

Dattaswami,

According to our Scriptures (Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, chapter 1), God is a “fool” by the standards of the world. So your arguments don’t carry weight with Christians. Of course granting salvation as a free gift is foolish from a business point of view. God is a very bad businessman indeed. We believe that the creation of the world is a glorious, stupendous waste–God did not need us in any way. (I’m not sure we’re so far apart from Hinduism here–don’t Hindus refer to the world as “laila”–divine “play”? Don’t you characterize the coming-to-be and passing-away of the world as the dance of Lord Shiva? That’s hardly a model drawn from good business practices.)

On the other hand, Christians disagree on exactly what it means that salvation is a free gift. Some evangelical Protestants make this the foundation of their entire theology, and believe that anyone who once accepts the gift of salvation is guaranteed eternal life, no matter what kind of life they live. This is not the view of most Christians. Most Christians (and certainly Catholics, who run this discussion board, though I am not myself Catholic) would agree that the initial gift of salvation–a relationship with God and the forgiveness of past sins–is a free gift. That is to say, if we truly repent of our sins and turn to God in faith, all our sins are forgiven and we are enabled to live a new life. However, if we do not persevere in living this new life–if we turn back to evil and selfishness–then we are in fact rejecting the gift of salvation. Catholics in fact express the necessity of leading a new life by the language of “earning merit” (although merit is only possible once we have received the gift of new spiritual life; in the Catholic view God is working in us and so our “merit” is actually His work, not ours). Protestants are not happy with this language.

Edwin

 

[cestusdei]

Datta belongs to a Hindu cult. You can find it on the net. Don’t take his/her posts seriously.

 

[deb1]

cestusdei:

Datta belongs to a Hindu cult. You can find it on the net. Don’t take his/her posts seriously.

Even so, unless he/she is rude, answering his/her questions can help others who have questions about salvation. When I first read the title of the thread, I assmumed that a Protestant was asking. I have often heard Protestants make a big deal about how salvation is a free gift.

I might be completely wrong but I thought that it was “Grace” that was the free gift. Grace is that part of us that pulls us to believe in a higher power then ourselves. God’s Grace touches everyone.

Salvation means having faith. Having faith is a choice and an act. So, Salvation is not a free gift because you do have to do something to receive it and that is have faith. It says in the bible that ***'faith without works is dead." ***Faith isn’t simply believing. It also says in the bible that “***You believe there is one God. Good! But the demons believe that too, and they tremble with fear.” *** Your belief has to be an active faith. That is why in my particular church, our priest always stresses how important it is for us to give to the poor and we are encouraged to be active in our community helping others.

I am in RCIA so if I made any mistakes, please some one, jump in and correct me.

 

[katewithak]

deb1:

Even so, unless he/she is rude, answering his/her questions can help others who have questions about salvation. When I first read the title of the thread, I assmumed that a Protestant was asking. I have often heard Protestants make a big deal about how salvation is a free gift.

I might be completely wrong but I thought that it was “Grace” that was the free gift. Grace is that part of us that pulls us to believe in a higher power then ourselves. God’s Grace touches everyone.

Salvation means having faith. Having faith is a choice and an act. So, Salvation is not a free gift because you do have to do something to receive it and that is have faith. It says in the bible that ***'faith without works is dead." ***Faith isn’t simply believing. It also says in the bible that “***You believe there is one God. Good! But the demons believe that too, and they tremble with fear.” *** Your belief has to be an active faith. That is why in my particular church, our priest always stresses how important it is for us to give to the poor and we are encouraged to be active in our community helping others.

I am in RCIA so if I made any mistakes, please some one, jump in and correct me.

Sorry. We believe that Christ offered Himself as a free gift. No strings attached. One is free to believe it or not.

 

[deb1]

katewithak:

Sorry. We believe that Christ offered Himself as a free gift. No strings attached. One is free to believe it or not.

Yes, Christ’s death was a free gift but faith is an act. In order to have faith you must do something and that is have faith. Faith is not simply believing. Faith is an act.

 

[katewithak]

deb1:

Yes, Christ’s death was a free gift but faith is an act. In order to have faith you must do something and that is have faith. Faith is not simply believing. Faith is an act.

And faith comes from where?

 

[deb1]

katewithak:

And faith comes from where?

The grace of God pulls us to him. But we still have the free will to reject or accept grace. We aren’t forced to have faith. It is our choice. Opening yourself up to God is an act. It might not be a physcial act but it is an act.

Again, I might be wrong and you might be right. It seems to me though if faith was not an act then everyone would have it. But we have choice and choice implies an act.

 

[katewithak]

deb1:

The grace of God pulls us to him. But we still have the free will to reject or accept grace. We aren’t forced to have faith. It is our choice. Opening yourself up to God is an act. It might not be a physcial act but it is an act.

Again, I might be wrong and you might be right. It seems to me though if faith was not an act then everyone would have it. But we have choice and choice implies an act.

Acting on the grace given is a matter of free will, you are right. But look at this way for a moment because the question was about salvation, not grace or free will. We cannot effect salvation ourselves because it was already freely given. Works stem from gratitude for the gift. The gratitude comes from true faith.
Think of the rich young man, though. He went to Jesus and told him he believed. And then he asked the Savior in front of him what he should do to be saved. And Jesus loved him very much and told him to give his possessions away. The young man could not do that and went away very sad. So what did Jesus do? Write him off? I rather doubt it. What he did do was not convince him to be a disciple, for if one truly does not believe salvation has come, how can one be a disciple and convince another? Did the young man lose his salvation though? Many would say yes, because they still believe they have to earn it. The disciple is the one who knows he can’t earn what was freely given. There are many who are saved but are “imperfect disciples”. The perfect disciples we call saints because they have received from God a particularly special gift of faith. Some never receive that special gift of faith, even when asked for.

 

[Contarini]

cestusdei:

Datta belongs to a Hindu cult. You can find it on the net. Don’t take his/her posts seriously.

What information is the pejorative slur-word “cult” supposed to convey? And why should someone not be taken seriously because they belong to a non-Christian religion? No wonder Catholics have trouble with evangelization . . . .

Edwin

 

[cestusdei]

Well Edwin, I looked it up. You Episcopalians are doing so well at evangelization that you will be extinct and are in the midst of a schism. You have plenty of scope for evangelization within your own church. I suggest you start in New Hampshire. With the bishop.