Salvation Is From The Jews - John 4:22

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Hi Ben,

What’s the greeting for the Sabbath?

You said:
Are you implying that Satan has used the Catholic Chruch to persecute the Jews in spite of all that we have brought to you? I mean, with the Inquisition, Crusades, and all sorts of blood libels? It would be interesting to hear your opinion.
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Christians who do such atrocities to their fellowmen are not really Christian. My opinion is that I find such things terrible and awful and I certainly would never defend those actions of persons in the church who committed these in her name.

I think satan works through the anger and meaness in men’s hearts. Not that they are possessed but that satan can use that cruelty for his own evil ends.
Well my friend, if you mean Jesus, I have no idea how he is gonna do that after two thousand years that he has been dead. The wisest of all men on earth says that those who have died, have no longer any part in anything that is done under the sun. (Eccle. 9:6)
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Ben: 🙂
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Well we shall see…

God Bless, Hopper 🙂
 
ricmat said:
The reasons is the same as why Jesus often told those he healed “not to tell anyone” – the reason being, the timing wasn’t right.
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Who decided when the time was right, Paul? Yes, because he was the one who started baptizing in the name
of Jesus. See Acts 19:4,5.
Jews were symbolically the “first born.” It was necessary that they be given the first “opportunity”.
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The first opportunity! What are you talking about?
Not according to Jesus. If you read Matthew 15:24, he himself said that his mission was ONLY to the Jews. Who changed it to be first to the Jews, Paul? I think your Messiah was rather Paul than Jesus.
The history of the OT covenants showed and expansion of inclusion, going from couple to family to tribe to nation to kingdom to…everybody (that’s us gentiles!)
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Interesting! And Jesus did not know that? Yes, because he had an aversion to Gentiles, since his mission was ONLY to the Jews.
At the end of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus tells his disciples to go forth and make disciples of all nations, only after the Gospels had been preached throughout Israel.
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That’s the great commission. What makes you think that it was given by Jesus? And do you think Jesus would speak of himself in the third person, saying, "Baptizing them in the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit? Don’t you think the hand of Paul is in this pot, since he was the one who started baptizing in the name of Jesus? (Acts 19:4,5)

Ben: 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
–snip–

That’s the great commission. What makes you think that it was given by Jesus? And do you think Jesus would speak of himself in the third person, saying, "Baptizing them in the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit? Don’t you think the hand of Paul is in this pot, since he was the one who started baptizing in the name of Jesus? (Acts 19:4,5)

Ben: 🙂
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Jesus spoke of himself in the third person many times. Where do you get the idea this was the only time? Oh, wait, I remember. Because you think Paul wrote the gospels. :rolleyes:
 
Ben_Masada said:
Who decided when the time was right, Paul? Yes, because he was the one who started baptizing in the name
of Jesus. See Acts 19:4,5.

The first opportunity! What are you talking about?
Not according to Jesus. If you read Matthew 15:24, he himself said that his mission was ONLY to the Jews. Who changed it to be first to the Jews, Paul? I think your Messiah was rather Paul than Jesus.

Interesting! And Jesus did not know that? Yes, because he had an aversion to Gentiles, since his mission was ONLY to the Jews.

That’s the great commission. What makes you think that it was given by Jesus? And do you think Jesus would speak of himself in the third person, saying, "Baptizing them in the name of the Father, the son and the Holy Spirit? Don’t you think the hand of Paul is in this pot, since he was the one who started baptizing in the name of Jesus? (Acts 19:4,5)

Ben: 🙂
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Your ignorance of the New Testament is pretty astounding.
 
MHalsey said:
Jesus spoke of himself in the third person many times. Where do you get the idea this was the only time? Oh, wait, I remember. Because you think Paul wrote the gospels. :rolleyes:
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No, I never said that Paul wrote the gospels. But the gospels were written by his disciples. They could not write something against his views.

Ben: 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
No, I never said that Paul wrote the gospels. But the gospels were written by his disciples. They could not write something against his views.

Ben: 🙂
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Whatever. You’re still wrong about the fact that Jesus spoke of himself in the third person many times.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Your ignorance of the New Testament is pretty astounding.
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I don’t think you are right in your opinion of me. The thing with me is that I use of an analytical mind when reading
the NT. Besides, when Jews read the NT they are expected to discard anything that’s not Jewish when the issue is dealing with the Jewish People.

Ben: 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
I don’t think you are right in your opinion of me. The thing with me is that I use of an analytical mind when reading
the NT. Besides, when Jews read the NT they are expected to discard anything that’s not Jewish when the issue is dealing with the Jewish People.

Ben: 🙂
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There’s the whole problem, right there. And if it is an analytical mind that you claim you have, your answers would be quite different.
 
Lev23 said:
I think we can both agree that one aspect of being chosen is doing the work of the God of Israel on earth for his Glory and for the welfare of the the whole world. St.Paul teaches in Romans that God always has a faithful remnant of Jews. At this time, that is those Jews who are in the Church, who with Gentiles who are chosen, are made one new man under Messiah, sovereignly grafted into the olive tree of Israel, and are co-heirs of God’s glory. St.Paul, as well as all the scriptures, teach that God always choses Jews to bring forth his message and work of salvation. And so it will be in the future also. The Gospel is to go to “the Jew first.” The Church, in the beginning, was all Jewish.
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Two things: I would like you to quote to me a statement from Jesus that his gospel was for the Jews FIRST. The
second thing is what you say that the chosen Jews are those who are in the Church. Sorry, my friend but there is no Jew in the
Church. When a Jew leaves Judaism for another religion he or she is no longer a Jew. Judaism is not a race but a religion.

Ben: 🙂

**Romans 1:1-6
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.

Verse 16 and 17
I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”**

So with this in mind, I will post a few New Testament scriptures that attest to what Jesus meant in John 4:22.

**John 4:22
You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Acts 13:26
"Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Acts 28:28
“Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

Hebrews 2:3
…how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.

Jude 1:3
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints.**
 
All through the Old Testament, God says how the Jews do not listen to Him and punishes them.
In the New Testament, Jesus Christ came to the Jew first. Made Christians out of the 12 first, and many, many converted after that. Even the Apostles changed their names from their Jewish birth names to gentile names.
 
Believe me Jharek, I don’t like to take this recourse. I do only when Catholics elevate the Church up to a level of a paragon of love and virtue. Then, I am tempted to remind them of the black history of the Catholic church.

Ben: 🙂
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
All through the Old Testament, God says how the Jews do not listen to Him and punishes them.
In the New Testament, Jesus Christ came to the Jew first. Made Christians out of the 12 first, and many, many converted after that. Even the Apostles changed their names from their Jewish birth names to gentile names.
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And the problem is that you don’t have a single evidence to anything you have said above. Only that to be punished by God is to be loved by God.

Ben: 🙂
 
Ben_Masada said:
Two things: I would like you to quote to me a statement from Jesus that his gospel was for the Jews FIRST. The
second thing is what you say that the chosen Jews are those who are in the Church. Sorry, my friend but there is no Jew in the
Church. When a Jew leaves Judaism for another religion he or she is no longer a Jew. Judaism is not a race but a religion.

Ben: 🙂
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#1
Jesus stated himself that he was sent only to Israel. Before Jesus went back to the Father, he comminishened the Church to preach the Gospel, starting in Jerusalem to the ends of the Earth. Wherever the Jews went to preach the Gospel outside Israel, they would always go to the local synagogues first. It only makes sense, were the Greek Pagans waiting for a Jewish Messiah, or were the synagogues and Jewish communities?

**Matthew-15:21-28
Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”

“Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”

Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.**

#2. Does a Jew leave Judasim to be in a Church, or to be under the New Covenant, which is highly Jewish? It is highly Jewish since it was promised by the God of Israel to the House of Israel and Judah.
(Jeremiah 31:31). You have no point of arguement to say a Jew who believes in Jesus is not Jewish anymore. NONE!

**Matthew 26:27-28
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.

“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” **
 
Ben_Masada said:
And the problem is that you don’t have a single evidence to anything you have said above. Only that to be punished by God is to be loved by God.

Ben: 🙂
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**In the bible, Peter’s name was Simon (Jewish name, no?), then changed to Cepha, then to Peter. Paul use to be Saul (Jewish name, no?) **
 
Ben_Masada said:
Believe me Jharek, I don’t like to take this recourse. I do only when Catholics elevate the Church up to a level of a paragon of love and virtue. Then, I am tempted to remind them of the black history of the Catholic church.

Ben: 🙂
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**Tell us then Ben the black history of the church, it must involve the Jews correct? Always playing the victim here Ben. Tell us the misinformation you have about the Spanish Inquisition (which was a government thing) and I shall tell you many stories about this, which include the Jews. **
 
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