Salvation Is From The Jews - John 4:22

[swariffin]

And the problem is that you don’t have a single evidence to anything you have said above. Only that to be punished by God is to be loved by God.

Ben:

Christianity is better in this case, punished by God but still loved by God. See what happened to your temple. After 70AD, you are forced to pray facing a wall. It seems to me a direct proof that God has punished you and does not love you anymore. Otherwise, you should have been able to re-established your own temple, given your military power, your economic power, not mentioning your uncle Sam backing you up.

BTW, forgive my words. That is my personal word and does not reflect my Catholic point of view. I am not antisemitic too, because I believe that you do have the right to exist and have the right of your homeland.

 

[swariffin]

If Jesus had talked about his resurrection, the Apostles would not have considered the story of the resurrection a nonsense and idle tale. Read Luke 24:11.

If Jesus was known to Peter as Christ, why didn’t he preach about him as such in Jerusalem for about 30 years till Paul showed up with that very message and was nearly killed by the local Jews? Does it make sense to you?

And what was God’s promise to Abraham and Jacob if I may ask?

All part of the 80 percent of strange interpolations.

What tense is God speaking in Exodus 34:5-7?

In the gerund. A participle present that indicates sequence of action. What is this question supposed to imply? If you are thinking about Jesus, there is nothing in there even to hint at.

What do you think Peter was preaching about after the Pentacost? about Paul? about himself? about the Thorah?

 

[swariffin]

Now yes, you must definitely be joking to include Jesus among converted Jews to Christianity or Catholicism. When Christianity started with Paul in Antioch, Jesus had been dead for about 30 years already. (Acts 11:26)

Ben:

Jesus converted all people not only the Jews to the correct law of God, not the modified Thorah of yours.

 

[swariffin]

Only ignorance makes one speak from outside about what is going on here between Israel and Gaza. Israel is not to blame for a single death which happens in Gaza. The difference between us and the Arabs in Gaza or Lebanon is that we use weapons to protect our children, and they use their children to protect their weapons. Therefore, they themselves are to blame for every single one among them who dies.

Besides, when Israel decides to take some action it’s because we can’t any longer suffer the daily missiles being thrown from Gaza and Lebanon into our cities. We had been suffering this kind
of things since the year 2000. Only now we decided that’s enough. Then, one-sided we decided to ceasefire. Since then there hasn’t been a day without a cassam missile being thrown on us.

I wish Mexico was doing this across America just to see what America would do. And for that matter, any other Country in this world. But Israel, everyone seems to think that we are supposed to be aways on the barrow side of the gun and never on the trigger side. If you ask me, we should do to them what they had promised to do to us in 1948 when their brothers the Arabs persuaded them to leave Israel and return later to take possession of the Jewish homes when they pushed us into the sea. We should have pushed all of them into the desert.

Now, their Arabic brothers should be brought to international trial to pay for what they did to them by making them refugees up to this day. They should use their petrol dollars and take them all
to inhabit their empty countries in need of people.

You guys out there love to accuse the Jews since the First Century with the death of Jesus and even up to this very day, when we can no longer suffer and react back with force. I don’t know where you have got this idea that we have to be always the scapegoat. Guess what? Think again because you are mistaken.

Ben:

I am not accusing the Jews, I am accusing Kayafas the high priest who was a coward. “Let one man die for the rest of the nation” If that one man was himself, then Kayafas was a great leader.

Jesus and many other Christians including Paul died for what they believe. Kayafas said that “You died for what I believe”. Really, I don’t have any hatred to any Jews. At least none of the so called zionist ever step foot on Indonesian soil. I just don’t believe in any leader who let the followers to sacrifice for such leader, while that leader is enjoying life and live happily ever after.

 

[swariffin]

Yes, I heard you loud and clear. But for Arabs to push Jews into the sea and let them drown is perfectly all right from the Christian standpoint. Isn’t that right, Jharek? Let me hear how the shoe thightens in the other foot. Unless Jews don’t have nerves to hurt.

Ben:

No you are mistaken, I don’t believe any Christian including Jharek loves to see the Jews are pushed to the sea. Please calm down, my dear brother. I know perfectly how you feel. I myself is a Chinese origin living in Indonesia, and I am a minority Catholic. For political purpose, some irresponsible leaders were/are making us as a sacrificial lamb which can be written-off just for them to maintain power. It happened in 1998, and I did face the bitterness myself. The hardliners want us all the Chinese origin who are no longer accepted by China, to leave and left all of our property behind. For this kind of situation, I feel that we have a commonality.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

… but Jews are mentioned explicitly though .

why is that ? Don’t u believe , as Chosen people , they are already saved ?? Christians must pray specially for Muslims , the lost souls …anti Christ (pbuh)

 

[Ben_Masada]

It’s the power of God. The entire Catholic church is praying for the conversion of Jews this Lent. Our prayers are getting answered I guess.

Well my friend, the Prophet Hosea says that’s not the power of God but lack of knowledge. He says that these People are perishing for lack of knowledge. Read Hosea 4:6.

 

[Ben_Masada]

I am only posting here to second Jharek’s comment. Mario, that was incredibly rude, cruel, and not at all in keeping with Catholic teaching on the Jews. Please, for the sake of your own soul during this most sacred time of year and recognition of your and Ben’s common human dignity (which is a Divine Gift to you both in kind), quietly reflect upon your attitude towards the Jews and ask that you be guided towards a more gentle way of dealing with those with whom you disagree. Please do not allow your own passions in defending the Church and the faith to blind you. It does nothing to help bring anyone to Christ or to demonstrate Christian principles to those who remain separated from us.

Finally some words of wisdom.

 

[Ben_Masada]

In the gerund. A participle present that indicates sequence of action. What is this question supposed to imply? If you are thinking about Jesus, there is nothing in there even to hint at.

What do you think Peter was preaching about after the Pentacost? about Paul? about himself? about the Thorah?

That speech was not delivered by Peter. Peter was a Nazarene Jew and he was no anti-Semite to accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus. He knew that the Romans did it. The man who delivered that speech was made up by Luke 50+ years after the alleged fact. Too un-Jewish to be delivered by a Jew.

Ben:

 

[mario_grgic]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

why is that ? Don’t u believe , as Chosen people , they are already saved ?? Christians must pray specially for Muslims , the lost souls …anti Christ (pbuh)

No one ca be saved if they do not believe in Jesus. Jews reject Jesus hence they are not saved. I don’t know what the status of Jews is any more, but it does not appear to me that they are still “chosen”. God has started a new covenant with all people consisting of all those who accept the teaching of Christ and who believe in him.

Jews it seems are still waiting for the messiah to come. Some Christians are saying that Jewish messiah is the anti-christ, since the real Messiah Jesus Christ already came.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

if it were not for us the Jews, the world would still be in the cave worshipping the stone and the fire; or even a block of wood in the form of a demon.



I think Ive just cracked a rib

 

[Ben_Masada]

Your arguments were just like the muslims. Did you read Mat 28:19. The same message I ask the muslims, when you read Matthew, for instance, please read till the end. Don’t stop to any verse suited to your Jewish ideology.

I read the whole thing. That gospel was written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone. There is no way to prove that Jesus ever said something like that. Besides, Jesus was a practicing Jew. Anything about him which is not according to Judaism is not true.

Ben:

 

[swariffin]

What do you think Peter was preaching about after the Pentacost? about Paul? about himself? about the Thorah?

That speech was not delivered by Peter. Peter was a Nazarene Jew and he was no anti-Semite to accuse the Jews with having crucified Jesus. He knew that the Romans did it. The man who delivered that speech was made up by Luke 50+ years after the alleged fact. Too un-Jewish to be delivered by a Jew.

Ben:

So you have successfully rewrote the Acts of the Apostles according the the Jewish. Congratulation.

 

[swariffin]

I read the whole thing. That gospel was written 50+ years after Jesus had been gone. There is no way to prove that Jesus ever said something like that. Besides, Jesus was a practicing Jew. Anything about him which is not according to Judaism is not true.

Ben:

Even a book by a scientist say gospel of Matthew was written in 50AD. That was merely 17 yrs after. Surely those who was present during the crucifixion were still live during 50 AD. If Jesus was 100% preaching about the Thorah according the Jew at that time, there was no logic that Kayafas would arrest Jesus and sent Him to the Roman to be killed.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Even a book by a scientist say gospel of Matthew was written in 50AD. That was merely 17 yrs after. Surely those who was present during the crucifixion were still live during 50 AD. If Jesus was 100% preaching about the Thorah according the Jew at that time, there was no logic that Kayafas would arrest Jesus and sent Him to the Roman to be killed.

**So, what is the option, to admit that Jesus committed a blaspheme? In that case, Jesus was a sinner, and you no longer can say that he was a perfec… Are you ready for that? Therefore, it’s better to think of Jesus being crucified for political reasons than for being a blasphemer. **

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**So, what is the option, to admit that Jesus committed a blaspheme? In that case, Jesus was a sinner, and you no longer can say that he was a perfec… Are you ready for that? Therefore, it’s better to think of Jesus being crucified for political reasons than for being a blasphemer. **

Jesus Christ is perfect in every way. He was never a sinner but a Messiah who came to save you. You are a sinner and your awful interpretations of Him will haunt you one day. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[alan1941]

In “Salvation is from the Jews,” Jesus meant to that Samaritan woman much more than just what most of us understand that he meant himself. He didn’t. He meant the whole nation, the Jewish People. How’s that?

Please, don’t get startled with the following statement, because I’ll
explain. If Israel existed before the Flood, this would not have
happened. Do you know why the Flood happened? Because "The Lord saw how great was man’s wickedness on earth, and how no desire that his heart conceived was ever anything but evil. (Gen. 5:5)

After the Flood, God promised Noah that "Never again He would doom the earth because of man. (Gen. 8:21) What about if man became wicked again? How would God make good on His promise to Noah?

It happens that Israel was on the make with the rise of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Israel would be the pledge to guarantee God’s promise to Noah that the world would be saved of another similar catastrophe.

I believe that’s what Jesus had in mind when he told that Samaritan woman that salvation is from the Jews. That’s what keeps the world going. And that’s how Salvation is from the Jews.

Ben

But when Jesus says salvation is from the Jews, he is speaking as a Jew of the house of David so it would not be contradictory for him to be referring to himself which if you read the entire passage He is doing, referring to himself as the Living water.

 

[Ben_Masada]

Jesus Christ is perfect in every way. He was never a sinner but a Messiah who came to save you. You are a sinner and your awful interpretations of Him will haunt you one day. May God have mercy on your soul.

God have mercy on those whose blinders are too tight on their eyes!

 

[Ben_Masada]

But when Jesus says salvation is from the Jews, he is speaking as a Jew of the house of David so it would not be contradictory for him to be referring to himself which if you read the entire passage He is doing, referring to himself as the Living water.

**Jesus was a Jewish man. He would have to be crazy to be referring to himself on an individual basis. There, by the Well of Jacob, were two nations in a dialogue: The Jewish People represented by Jesus and all the Gentiles represented by the Samaritan woman. You, the Gentiles, said Jesus, worship what you don’t know. And we, the Jews, know what we worship. Because salvation is of the Jews. (John 4:22-24)

Jesus was not referring to personal salvation, which is the responsibility of everyone in particular. He was referring to collective salvation to be free of universal catastrophes, as God promised to Noah, would never be allowed again, and Jeremiah connected that promise to the existence of Israel on earth. (Jer. 31:35-37)**

 

[DavidMark]

Hello to Ben Masada and all:
I love Eretz Israel so much. I have been twice on Baha’i pilrimage and visited many other places around the country.
From my perspective the Holy Land is holy because the Holy One would appear there, the One Who spoke from the Burning Bush, Yahweh Sabaoth, the Lord of Hosts, Who would redeem the Jews when the “Time of the Gentiles” was over. Well, they have their own country again --the Promised One must be in the world!
It is my understanding that when Isaiah says in chapter 11, that He raise an ensign for the nations and will assemble the outcasts of Israel" and “gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth” it is talking about now. The exodus ships came into the Haifa harbor and above them was the Shrine of 'Alí, the Báb (Gate) waiting for them.
They make ‘aliyah’ to Yerushalayím, but a New Jerusalem is already descended from heaven.
I am interested in your opinion of this imporant matter.

jewbahais.blogspot.com/