Sorry, but the moderator just warned us not to disuss this exact topic. Since we can’t know the state of someone’s soul and if that someone is in hell, the question can’t be answered, anyway. Plus, it’s not charitable to assume that any particular person is in hell. We are supposed to assume everyone is in purgatory and pray for the repose of their soul (unless they are a canonized saint; then we can know they’re in heaven
)Thank you very much for your reply. This puts my mind very much at ease as I believe Archbishop Lefebvre was a giant among men.
The writer is most definitely in error. He has no authority to judge the soul of Archbishop Lefebvre. The Church hasn’t declared anyone to be in hell, even Judas, and has especially not declared such of the good Archbishop. St. Joan of Arc died excommunicated and is a glaring example that one can die excommunicated and can be saved, even canonized by the Church.
Discussion about Archbishop Lefebvre has not been banned, but it is forbidden (not to mention completely uncharitable) to say the Archbishop is in hell. The OP did not state that is what he thought (in fact the opposite), he was just asking about an article he read and wanted clarification on this. No rules broken here. The writer of the article would probably be banned if he was on Catholic Answers though.
Sorry, but the moderator just warned us not to disuss this exact topic. Since we can’t know the state of someone’s soul and if that someone is in hell, the question can’t be answered, anyway. Plus, it’s not charitable to assume that any particular person is in hell. We are supposed to assume everyone is in purgatory and pray for the repose of their soul (unless they are a canonized saint; then we can know they’re in heaven
Actually, she warned against being uncharitable in this matter, as the topic seems to boil everyone’s blood one way or the other.St. Joan of Arc died while excommunicated. This judgment was later nullified. Excommunications are not infallible, and Rome is still debating on whether or not the act was schism or simply disobedience. Personally, I’m sure he’s in Heaven, but until I get a personal sign or he’s canonized I’ll continue to pray for him. As he was never outside the Church (Pope Benedict refers to the SSPX as being a “problem” *within *the Church), was a very holy man who always put God first, how can he be in Hell?
A very just question, and I don’t see how it could be any other way than him being in heaven.
I just realized I basically repeated two of your posts.:doh2: :doh2: :doh2: I wasn’t copying, honest.
No problem. I’ve done it myself before too.I just realized I basically repeated two of your posts.:doh2: :doh2: :doh2: I wasn’t copying, honest.
I once read that there is a prayer in the Eastern Liturgies that talks about Arius being in hell, and thus he is the only person (from an Eastern standpoint) who has ever been officially “uncanonized”- that is canonized to hell. But maybe I heard wrongly.
Very interesting. Thanks for this knowledge and God Bless!
Happy to help. God bless you too
He was objectively outside the church and lost his salvation, that means from our perspective we are to obey the Church which said he was excommunicated. What we dont know is the state of his soul (subjective, left to God) and thus it is possible that he repented in time (but only God knows).
Is this Orthodox liturgy, or Eastern Rite Catholic? Either way, I’m assuming that this was not based on a papal proclamation, so it doesn’t have the same authority as a canonization performed by the pope.
It is amazing how you can support the Archbishop when he was blatantly disobiedient to the Pope, and the Pope even stated so in Ecclessia Dei. The Archbishop’s reasons are totally subjective and totally indefensible. How can he be a holy (not saying anything about his eternal fate) example when he blatantly disobeyed the Pope? I mean if he can conscecrate Bishops (without permission) just because he believed that he was preserving tradition then we are all in trouble. This would create a huge “slippery slope” for other Bishops. Not to mention if some of you would simply read Pope John Paul II’s Ecclessia Dei you would see clearly the mind of ther Holy Father on this subject.