Salvation of Protestants

[Della]

This is the conversation so far:

bhlincoln:

Our Lord himself started His Church through His Apostles and clearly stated that those who do not believe will be condemned (in other words NOT saved). Since the Protestant Reformers chose to discard the key elements of the true Church of Christ such as the Church’s authority, the Sacraments etc, that clearly indicates that the Protestant denominations that followed are not following that which was insitituted from the start and are NOT true Churches of Christ, therefore it’s members cannot be saved. This is not the opinion of earthly people, this is from the words of Our Lord in Scripture; if you do not follow His teachings, you are condemned.

Della:

Your comments are funny really because by trying to be more Catholic than the Church you yourself are putting yourself outside the very Church you think you are defending.

I think you’d better read the CCC on this issue instead of using the Protestant method of personal interpretation of the Bible to form one’s own doctrines apart from Christ’s Church.

bh

No where in Scripture do we see Our Lord offering multiple interpretations or saying it is acceptable to follow multiple interpretations of the law He laid down…

So if Our Lord sets down the law on how we are to be saved, and someone takes it upon themselves to change that law to what suits them, are you saying this is acceptable to Our Lord and that the person doing this will still be saved??

Della:
There are four issues here: Firstly, Catholics don’t decide doctrine and dogma for themselves by reading the Bible and determining what is and what isn’t D & D. So, you are wrong there.

Secondly, you are not taking into account culpability of those who have been brought up Protestant and so have not personally changed any of God’s laws since they don’t even know what the Church teaches are God’s laws, more specifically those that must be obeyed by all Catholics.

Thirdly, you are skipping right over or are unaware of the fact that the Church calls all persons baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Christian by reason of their trinitarian baptism, although our Protestant brethren are connected to Christ’s Church imperfectly.

And fourthly, the Church teaches that no one is required to know all God’s laws in order to be saved but all those who use the grace God gave them and whatever knowledge they had in order to serve God and neighbor as they understood it may be saved.

All these points can be found in the CCC, which I urge you to consult before making sweeping statements that Protestants can’t be saved.

 

[Sherlock]

Good post, Della.

Feeneyites are so much more Catholic than the Catholic Church—so much so that they land smack-dab in the middle of Protestantism with their rejection of Church authority.

 

[Della]

Sherlock:

Good post, Della.

Feeneyites are so much more Catholic than the Catholic Church—so much so that they land smack-dab in the middle of Protestantism with their rejection of Church authority.

Yes, just so.

I have to wonder what motivates these Catholics to want to make the decision that anyone physically outside the Church can’t be saved.

And why can’t they see that by taking this on themselves they turn themselves into judges of human hearts, which was specifically forbidden by Our Lord.

Why must they be more in agreement with Fundamentalism on this point than with their own Church?

 

[Jaypeeto3]

Well, the church has solemnly defined at the Council of Florence that heretics will be condemned to hell.
That being said, the Catholic Church has also always said that those who **through no fault of their own ** do not know that membership in the Catholic Church is required by Christ, can be saved in spite of their error.
Love,
Jaypeeto3

 

[Della]

Jaypeeto3:

Well, the church has solemnly defined at the Council of Florence that heretics will be condemned to hell.
That being said, the Catholic Church has also always said that those who **through no fault of their own ** do not know that membership in the Catholic Church is required by Christ, can be saved in spite of their error.
Love,
Jaypeeto3

Absolutely, but we have to take into account that there are differences in heretics, as well.

Most Protestants are material heretics not formal heretics. And it is unrepentant formal heretics who cannot be saved not material heretics who know no better.

 

[Kendy]

Della:

Absolutely, but we have to take into account that there are differences in heretics, as well.

Most Protestants are material heretics not formal heretics. And it is unrepentant formal heretics who cannot be saved not material heretics who know no better.

Can someone explain the difference for me? Also, if that is the case, would it not then imply that almost no one would go to hell for being protestant. I have never met anyone who said, I fully realize that being catholic is what Jesus wants me to do, but I just prefer being a baptist.

Kendy

P.S. BTW, I am protestant.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Della:

Absolutely, but we have to take into account that there are differences in heretics, as well.

Most Protestants are material heretics not formal heretics. And it is unrepentant formal heretics who cannot be saved not material heretics who know no better.

Precisely…your points are excellent, Della.

 

[Sherlock]

Kendy:

Can someone explain the difference for me? Also, if that is the case, would it not then imply that almost no one would go to hell for being protestant. I have never met anyone who said, I fully realize that being catholic is what Jesus wants me to do, but I just prefer being a baptist.

Kendy

P.S. BTW, I am protestant.

I actually have met those people. One I know accepts that the Catholic Church is indeed the Church that Jesus founded, but doesn’t really want to go to Mass and refrain from mundane work on Sundays (she’s an Evangelical who was told that it was not necessary to do either). She’s simply gotten into the habit of using Sunday as a work day, and doesn’t want to bother with the whole church thing. Does that make sense? No, but that’s where she’s at. But she’s slowly coming 'round…
Another person I know comes from a very fundamentalist Baptist family, and though he has come to believe that the Catholic Church is, in fact, the Church that Jesus founded, his formal conversion would cost him dearly. He thinks his marriage might even be at stake. And so he hasn’t converted formally yet, though with God’s grace that will come.

 

[Kendy]

Sherlock:

I actually have met those people. One I know accepts that the Catholic Church is indeed the Church that Jesus founded, but doesn’t really want to go to Mass and refrain from mundane work on Sundays (she’s an Evangelical who was told that it was not necessary to do either). She’s simply gotten into the habit of using Sunday as a work day, and doesn’t want to bother with the whole church thing. Does that make sense? No, but that’s where she’s at. But she’s slowly coming 'round…
Another person I know comes from a very fundamentalist Baptist family, and though he has come to believe that the Catholic Church is, in fact, the Church that Jesus founded, his formal conversion would cost him dearly. He thinks his marriage might even be at stake. And so he hasn’t converted formally yet, though with God’s grace that will come.

I am confused about your first friend. Doesn’t her evangelical church require (or at least strongly suggest) that she goes to church on Sunday?

Kendy

 

[Sherlock]

Kendy:

I am confused about your first friend. Doesn’t her evangelical church require (or at least strongly suggest) that she goes to church on Sunday?

Kendy

No, it doesn’t. Don’t feel bad—it confuses me too!