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clarktaylor
Guest
Why does it matter?
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MarkA16
Guest
Uh, because I want to see the Catholic view?
You know. I came to this board not knowing anything about the Catholic faith. I’m still learning, and I want to learn from Catholics. Isn’t that why you’re here too? Learning? Asking questions? Getting answers from Catholics?
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MarkA16
Guest
Catholic approved or not, what Mother Teresa said is what I believe we all should do when we show love:
That’s true love to me. That’s the God love. Agape. That’s what I believe. You can disagree with me on this one, but I’m not going to force someone to turn to Jesus if they don’t want to, if they really love being a Hindu or whatever. The true love wouldn’t even debate what’s right or wrong but just love and accept whatever God has created, I think.
Debating someone about how to love, to me, is a waste of time when you can find the same love anywhere. One love, One God.
I agree with Blessed Teresa. I too convert. I convert others to be a better person.
Mother Teresa said:
That’s true love to me. That’s the God love. Agape. That’s what I believe. You can disagree with me on this one, but I’m not going to force someone to turn to Jesus if they don’t want to, if they really love being a Hindu or whatever. The true love wouldn’t even debate what’s right or wrong but just love and accept whatever God has created, I think.
Debating someone about how to love, to me, is a waste of time when you can find the same love anywhere. One love, One God.
I agree with Blessed Teresa. I too convert. I convert others to be a better person.
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vocatio
Guest
MarkA16
Sounds like you already predetermined your answer…then why ask unless your looking for validation or for arguments to show otherwise.
Works…Faith without works is empty… that is there is not true faith if works does not follow. For it is my grace that you have ben saved, and not by works so that no man can boast…it is the gift of God…Our salvation is a gift form God…it is the Grace of God that saves us… but I tie my faith up now in the teaching authority of the Church. Keep going off into never ever land and you’ll end up like the knuckleheads on this board trying to convince you that baptism is not required of us.
If we are to attempt to come to the understanding of salvation, in essence we are seeking God. Do we seek God in love? An athiest can not be save by good works…but he can be save by the grace of God. We hope and pray for those that do not believe or have other faiths/non-Christians as well as our separated brothers and sisters in Christ. The issue is that we do not know for certain about others in those categories…however, we do not say they are going to hell either. Further, if those individuals seeking God are saved…they are saved only because of Christ Jesus…they are saved through the Church of Christ. There is only one Church that was established by Jesus on the day of Pentacost, 33 A.D. that is the Church of Christ. That is the Catholic Church. The term Catholic means univeral or for all. We do not konw for certain but we have great hope for those that try… not everyone has had a fair exposure to coming to know Christ. Numerous examples that are far to much to get into for now.
God takes into consideration that if someone were given the truth in a manner that they understand and they reject it…then that person would have some problems. However, the idea is that if, for example, that if someone did not have the opportunity in a Muslin world to come to know Christ and that person was living faithful to that beleif, provided they weren’t justifying murdering and havoc etc.(my 2 cents) then it is possible that since they are living a life of charity to do good will to others, then they could be saved. How many canonized persons do we know that are in hell? None…because the Church has never canonized or declaire someone to be in hell.
Read the Catechism on this subject and stope seeking cafateria Catholic answers for such questions and making up your own teachings. Things like salvation are good topics to reserach and discuss, but to discuss as thought authoritatively understood and then being actuall wrong merely misleads Catholic and non-Catholics… I believe you mean well, but I’m not sure at the wisdome or the validity of your conclusions. After wondering in my own desert away from the beliefs of the Catholic Church I found myself without question that I had to return or I may be doomed to hell, because I was presented with the truth and the only out I had was that hardly anyone in the Catholic Church was practicing the Catholic faith true to the teachings of the Church. That may have saved me but when I came across unquestionable evidence that the Catholic/Orthodox Church was the original church and why I had to follow the teaching authority I reverted from a non-denomination church that actually believed that others outside that belief were NOT saved. I had great issues with this because of my Catholic background. Apparently it turned out that their con or beleif did not hold true.
It is a sad day that so many are in all sencerity misleading Catholics away from the truth. Why? Because they are intent of bringing us away from Catholicism because to accept Catholicism as truth is to validly admit that they are wrong in “Protesting” the church or in my case…they are claiming to be the one true church…which is historically the craziest argument you’ll ever hear. But something led me to follow that down to the end…I’ve been waiting for my wife and our first steps were into a non-denominational faith that taught that baptism was not necessary…we through that out fast…and after discovering the didache that led to other ancient docements she was ever as convinced as me that the Church was one holy catholic and apostolic…no doubts anymore. If the Catholic Church [includes western and eastern traditions (and Orthodox for me)] is wrong then there is no valid Church at all and never will be and salvation is just a great hoax or con.
Sounds like you already predetermined your answer…then why ask unless your looking for validation or for arguments to show otherwise.
Works…Faith without works is empty… that is there is not true faith if works does not follow. For it is my grace that you have ben saved, and not by works so that no man can boast…it is the gift of God…Our salvation is a gift form God…it is the Grace of God that saves us… but I tie my faith up now in the teaching authority of the Church. Keep going off into never ever land and you’ll end up like the knuckleheads on this board trying to convince you that baptism is not required of us.
If we are to attempt to come to the understanding of salvation, in essence we are seeking God. Do we seek God in love? An athiest can not be save by good works…but he can be save by the grace of God. We hope and pray for those that do not believe or have other faiths/non-Christians as well as our separated brothers and sisters in Christ. The issue is that we do not know for certain about others in those categories…however, we do not say they are going to hell either. Further, if those individuals seeking God are saved…they are saved only because of Christ Jesus…they are saved through the Church of Christ. There is only one Church that was established by Jesus on the day of Pentacost, 33 A.D. that is the Church of Christ. That is the Catholic Church. The term Catholic means univeral or for all. We do not konw for certain but we have great hope for those that try… not everyone has had a fair exposure to coming to know Christ. Numerous examples that are far to much to get into for now.
God takes into consideration that if someone were given the truth in a manner that they understand and they reject it…then that person would have some problems. However, the idea is that if, for example, that if someone did not have the opportunity in a Muslin world to come to know Christ and that person was living faithful to that beleif, provided they weren’t justifying murdering and havoc etc.(my 2 cents) then it is possible that since they are living a life of charity to do good will to others, then they could be saved. How many canonized persons do we know that are in hell? None…because the Church has never canonized or declaire someone to be in hell.
Read the Catechism on this subject and stope seeking cafateria Catholic answers for such questions and making up your own teachings. Things like salvation are good topics to reserach and discuss, but to discuss as thought authoritatively understood and then being actuall wrong merely misleads Catholic and non-Catholics… I believe you mean well, but I’m not sure at the wisdome or the validity of your conclusions. After wondering in my own desert away from the beliefs of the Catholic Church I found myself without question that I had to return or I may be doomed to hell, because I was presented with the truth and the only out I had was that hardly anyone in the Catholic Church was practicing the Catholic faith true to the teachings of the Church. That may have saved me but when I came across unquestionable evidence that the Catholic/Orthodox Church was the original church and why I had to follow the teaching authority I reverted from a non-denomination church that actually believed that others outside that belief were NOT saved. I had great issues with this because of my Catholic background. Apparently it turned out that their con or beleif did not hold true.
It is a sad day that so many are in all sencerity misleading Catholics away from the truth. Why? Because they are intent of bringing us away from Catholicism because to accept Catholicism as truth is to validly admit that they are wrong in “Protesting” the church or in my case…they are claiming to be the one true church…which is historically the craziest argument you’ll ever hear. But something led me to follow that down to the end…I’ve been waiting for my wife and our first steps were into a non-denominational faith that taught that baptism was not necessary…we through that out fast…and after discovering the didache that led to other ancient docements she was ever as convinced as me that the Church was one holy catholic and apostolic…no doubts anymore. If the Catholic Church [includes western and eastern traditions (and Orthodox for me)] is wrong then there is no valid Church at all and never will be and salvation is just a great hoax or con.
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clarktaylor
Guest
OK, I won’t say anything… but I will leave you 2 quotes from the Bible to ponder over:
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. (1 Corinthians 13.6)
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)
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clarktaylor
Guest
How do you know that you have the truth? How do you know that there was an “immaculate conception” or that the Assumption is true? Because the Pope said it’s true, nothing else. You take the decrees of your “Holy Father” as Gospel, Protestants don’t. You can’t be dogmatic about these kinds of issues so don’t say I don’t have the “truth”.
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MarkA16
Guest
vocatio, I want to know Catholic truth, and I’d think that from my experiences here in the CA forum, I would get good answers from Catholics that really know the teaching on this subject. What I present is what I’ve gathered from my own research. The teachings on “Salvation Outside the Church” and “Salvation through Faith and Works” together is difficult for me to understand right now, along with the definition of love from the Bible.
Also, thank God for the obstacles He put in my life to shape me to how I am today, which has greatly influenced my private interpretation (I know I shouldn’t go with MY interpretation, that’s why I’m telling you what mine is, so that I can get the real interpretation) on universal love. I thank the Church for helping me because I have so much faith in her, that I will believe whatever she says, because it is God I hear through her.
Again, I believe in universal love, but I don’t know if it’s Universal love.
I’m really sorry for my ignorance. I hope that you guys understand where I’m coming from so that I can get the help I need in order to continue to show real Universal love to others.
clarktaylor, again thanks for your contribution to this thread. I’d like this to stay on topic though and try not to talk about authority when there’s a thread about it already.
Thanks.
Also, thank God for the obstacles He put in my life to shape me to how I am today, which has greatly influenced my private interpretation (I know I shouldn’t go with MY interpretation, that’s why I’m telling you what mine is, so that I can get the real interpretation) on universal love. I thank the Church for helping me because I have so much faith in her, that I will believe whatever she says, because it is God I hear through her.
Again, I believe in universal love, but I don’t know if it’s Universal love.
I’m really sorry for my ignorance. I hope that you guys understand where I’m coming from so that I can get the help I need in order to continue to show real Universal love to others.
clarktaylor, again thanks for your contribution to this thread. I’d like this to stay on topic though and try not to talk about authority when there’s a thread about it already.
Thanks.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
The Catholic position from the Catechism, paragraphs 846-847 (pay special attention to the bold part for your answer):
“Outside the Church there is no salvation”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Click here to read that section online and the Scriptural and Traditional references that go with these paragraphs.
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