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lisahiku
Guest
The Statment stated that one must be baptized AND a catholic.
Hence, the statement is NOT true because otherwise a deceased lutheran baby would not go to heaven (they would not be catholic).
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Hence, the statement is NOT true because otherwise a deceased lutheran baby would not go to heaven (they would not be catholic).
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lisahiku
Guest
I find it so sad on this forum (and other threads) that a large percentage of people think only Catholics can get to heaven.
We are all brothers and sisters. God loves us all! I find the people here on C/A to have a very Superior attitude in that they think and believe that ONLY catholics can get to heaven.
I am glad they are wrong!
I know some very many wonderful CHRISTIAN people who are NOT catholic that I am sure the Lord will welcome with open arms when they die.
We are all brothers and sisters. God loves us all! I find the people here on C/A to have a very Superior attitude in that they think and believe that ONLY catholics can get to heaven.
I am glad they are wrong!
I know some very many wonderful CHRISTIAN people who are NOT catholic that I am sure the Lord will welcome with open arms when they die.
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lisahiku
Guest
WRONG! The catholic church recognizes ANY christian baptism.
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NewsTheMan
Guest
All baptisms are Catholic baptisms insofar as they conform to the Trinitarian formula and some form of physical water baptism is involved.
One must be baptised and a Catholic to get into heaven. Absolutely no doubt about that. The statement is true.
What is superior about believing the Catholic Church is the one true faith of the God of the Universe? Was it superior or arrogant for Christ to say “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”? Certainly not. There is only one truth. Don’t trivialize your faith by making protestantism on equal grounds with the Catholic Church. Protestantism is still heresy, let’s not forget that.
If you find it troubling then you should realize all the more need to evangelize more! I am not troubled by it because I trust in the mercy of God; but I also know that God gives everybody the graces necessary to attain salvation. The only way to not be saved is to reject it.
Everybody who is in heaven is a Catholic even if on earth they professed to be something else - they were unwittingly Catholic.
Catholics go to hell too; not every Catholic is saved.
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus is not a teaching to be ashamed of nor is it something to reject lightly (since rejecting it would be to reject the Catholic faith).
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codefro
Guest
You seem to hold a bias of your own while you attack those whom you may be implying are biased.
Also, C/A rely heavily on the Catechism and refer to it constantly when speaking on this subject. So if you have a problem with them, it may be your problem with the Catechism.
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guanophore
Guest
Sure they are! Everyone in heaven is Catholic.
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guanophore
Guest
I think you just misunderstand us, and the Teaching of the Apostls, Lisa.
Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH. There is no other name under heaven by which men may be saved but by Jesus. He is the Head of HIS ONE BODY, the CHURCH. All who are in Him (have Him as Head) are members of the ONE CHURCH He founded. Therefore, it is only through that One Church that people are saved. There are many persons who are not visibly Catholic who have been, and will be, saved, but they are saved because they are members of His One Body, the Church.
The reason there is no salvation outside the Church is because there is no salvation outside Christ.
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guanophore
Guest
This is not wrong. There is only one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. The reason that baptism is accepted by those and for those who are not visibly Catholic is because it is done in a Catholic manner (trinitarian with proper form and manner) and intends to do what the Catholic Church teaches baptism does. Therefore, it is a Catholic baptism, since there is only one valid baptism, and it is Catholic.
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PJM
Guest
The Bible always and everywhere teaches and demands belief in only One God [Triune], One set of faith beliefs [as taught in there necessary fullness by the RCC] and obedience to Only One Church: Christ own RCC
Any other way is IFFY “fence jumping” NOT entering through thre Narrow gate.
God Bless, Pat
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NeelyAnn
Guest
Thank you for saying exactly what I would have said.This is not wrong. There is only one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. The reason that baptism is accepted by those and for those who are not visibly Catholic is because it is done in a Catholic manner (trinitarian with proper form and manner) and intends to do what the Catholic Church teaches baptism does. Therefore, it is a Catholic baptism, since there is only one valid baptism, and it is Catholic.
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lisahiku
Guest
you guys can quote chatechism and anything else you want to me all you want and you will not persuade me.
God loves everyone. and ALL religions will be in heaven , not just catholic (wish I could see your guys’ faces on that one!)
Why don’t you guys looks up in the chatecism where it says that we recognize our separated christian brothers/sisters. Prove to me that the chatecism states ONLY
catholics get to heaven.
Regarding the baptism thing…I know all christian baptims are not catholic.
I am so glad that the God I worship is an inclusive God…and one that does not condemn people to hell because they did not have catholic stamped on their forehead.
God loves everyone. and ALL religions will be in heaven , not just catholic (wish I could see your guys’ faces on that one!)
Why don’t you guys looks up in the chatecism where it says that we recognize our separated christian brothers/sisters. Prove to me that the chatecism states ONLY
catholics get to heaven.
Regarding the baptism thing…I know all christian baptims are not catholic.
I am so glad that the God I worship is an inclusive God…and one that does not condemn people to hell because they did not have catholic stamped on their forehead.
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guanophore
Guest
Well, Lisa, maybe it is you who needs to start spending some time with the Catechism? This is what is in there, and this is what the CC teaches and believes. God loves every person He creates, and desires that all will be saved.
No need, Lisa, been there, and done that. Cured from modernism, thankfully.
The reason we say that everyone in heaven will be Catholic is because the CC has the fullness of God’s revelation of Himself to mankind. When people come to the knowledge of the Truth, they will realize that they are, indeed, Catholic.
Other “religions” cannot lead us to heaven. There is truth found in all the worlds’ religions, and God works through these, as well as His creation, to lead souls to Himself. But there is no salvation by any other name under heaven than the name of Jesus. Those who find Him will also find His One Body, the Church (which is Catholic).
No one said that, Lisa. We said only Catholics will BE in heaven. When we end this life, and encounter Him face to face, we will see Him as we are seen, and in that moment, all will realize that the CC is the fullness.
Your “knowledge”, then, is false. Every valid Christian baptism is Catholic. If it is not a Catholic baptism, then it is not a valid Christian baptism. There is only ONE valid baptism.
God does not condemn people to hell. People choose hell because they love the darkness more than the light.
And, no one is saying that saved persons are all visible Catholics. This not true.
I am glad you are here on CAF, Lisa, and I hope you will stick around so that you can know and understand the Catholic faith better. Clearly you have a lot of wrong ideas of what is believed and taught.
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lisahiku
Guest
No, I think this forum and the majority of people have the wrong ideas!
There is a lot of superiority on here, thinking that only catholics will be in heaven.
Really? hmm…what about moses? he was jewish and died before christ came along.
what about st joseph? he died before christ was crucified and worshipped as a jew.
What about native americans? they were never baptized. No chance for them I suppose? what about Chinese and Japanese?
You people spit out whatever you want to support your argument. Even when it is not accurate! You see , I am a product of both catholic and protestant parents. Am I to believe my protestant relatives’s style of worship is not pleasing to GOd and that they are going to end up in a fiery furnace if they do not convert to catholicism?
Not gonna happen.
The superior attitude I find on this forum just feeds my desire to convert to another faith.
which I am seriously considering doing.
There is a lot of superiority on here, thinking that only catholics will be in heaven.
Really? hmm…what about moses? he was jewish and died before christ came along.
what about st joseph? he died before christ was crucified and worshipped as a jew.
What about native americans? they were never baptized. No chance for them I suppose? what about Chinese and Japanese?
You people spit out whatever you want to support your argument. Even when it is not accurate! You see , I am a product of both catholic and protestant parents. Am I to believe my protestant relatives’s style of worship is not pleasing to GOd and that they are going to end up in a fiery furnace if they do not convert to catholicism?
Not gonna happen.
The superior attitude I find on this forum just feeds my desire to convert to another faith.
which I am seriously considering doing.
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NewsTheMan
Guest
These are the ideas of the Church.
You have yet to show why this is superiority - or at least, superiority of the negative kind. Jesus Christ is superior to all other men. Is that bad? Does that make Him wrong? Does it make Him arrogant?
Great questions, and the Catechism deals with them! You need to look up invincible ignorance, and you should also research “salvation history” and just how Christ redeemed us (his sacrifice is eternal). Remember that part in the Creed about Jesus descending to the dead? That’s a hint for ya
In all charity, I think it’s rather the case that you are guilty of the above, not us. Does it not seem strange to you that Catholics on a Catholic board - who quote the Catechism and who are under Moderation not to misrepresent the Church - are in disagreement with you? Is it we who quote Church teaching and abide by the rules of the forum who are wrong or perhaps are you in need of some revision?
If it is no accurate, point out where. You cannot keep saying this without any releva information backing it up. We need quotes from the Fathers. Scripture. Papal documents. The Catechism. The Saints. Anything. Imagine I went into a thread and said “Jesus is not God, you guys are spreading false information and I don’t care what the Catechism says, Catholics don’t believe Jesus is God!”. You would be rightly astounded!
Certainly the fact that they worshipped God and wanted to please the Lord is something that God loves and values. But you are asking questions that are mixed up in many different ways. Protestant worship is lacking, and it is not of the same value and worth as the Mass. However, individual Protestants who are ignorant of the Mass and wish to please God – that by itself pleases God. God is pleased by their intentions even if their worship is lacking. Do you see the kind of thing I am getting at? Do you have to believe your protestant family is in Hell? Of course not. We can all hope that our relatives are in Heaven. But that is a different question to what we are talking about in this thread. Who knows what was on the souls of your protestant family? Only God knows. So leave it up to Him — but you are in a position now to guide your own soul into Heaven! Yes! God has given you this gift! So take it with both arms and be grateful.
If you are considering converting to another faith simply because you don’t perhaps like the people that have posted in this thread then I dare say you have not thought enough about Catholicism, or about Jesus Christ, or God, or the Scriptures. You have only thought about yourself, your emotions and the things which are pleasing to your ears.
We are all sinners here, trying to make it into Heaven. By the grace of Almighty God we have the sacraments and the Church. Praise be to Jesus Christ in His infinite wisdom that He gave us a Church, and thanks be to the Holy Spirit who guides us and never leads us into error!
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PJM
Guest
If you counting on it outside the ONLY faith and ONLY church founded by God; good luck=lisahiku;8486595]Really? I look forward to Jesus helping give me a leg up to jump that fence!
It aint gonna happen my friend.Heb.4:1 to 3
"Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest remains, let us fear lest any of you be judged to have failed to reach it. For good news came to us just as to them; but the message which they heard did not benefit them, because it did not meet with faith in the hearers. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my wrath, `They shall never enter my rest,’”
Heb. 6: 4-8 written to early “the Way / catholics”.
For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [Baptized in the RCC] who have tasted the heavenly gift,[Catholic Eucharist] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,[Been Confirmed in the Catholic Faith] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,*** if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.***
KNOW THIS: not one place in the entire bible: Ot or NT does God even once permit beliefe in more than one God; any beliefs othr than what he himself teaches [now through the RCC holder of the ONLY key to the gate of heaven], or more than the One Church that is actually founded by God: NOT man!
Your messing with fire ftriend and your going to get burned! Read the post on my BLOG.
May God grant you mercy and wisdom.
Pat
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jmcrae
Guest
Even if everyone who has ever lived goes to Heaven, they will all be Catholics by the time they get there. We have all kinds of religions down here on earth, but the only religion in Heaven is the Catholic faith, so everyone who is there (regardless of what they were when they were here on earth) is a Catholic.
They have also become Catholics, ever since Jesus died on the Cross for them.
All of them became Catholics at the moment of death in a supernatural manner, if they went to Heaven.
Their worship is not what God (Jesus) gave to His Church to do, so no, it is not pleasing to Him. Nevertheless, it doesn’t mean they have to go to Hell. They could convert during this lifetime, or, after death, they could go to Purgatory and be converted in Purgatory before going to Heaven.
The important question at this point is, do you want to worship yourself, or do you want to worship God? God has given us the Catholic Church, and only the Catholic Church. Everything else is man-made and based on opinions; not God’s truth.
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lizaanne
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jmcrae
Guest
We are assured of our salvation so long as we are sure of being in a state of grace. We have this certainty by remaining in the Church, obeying the precepts that Christ has given to it by means of His Apostles and their successors, and by making frequent use of the Sacraments that He gave to His Church during His three-year ministry on earth.
My personal response would be, as long as we are alive, we are capable of sin. Unless we repent of each and every sin, confess it by name, and resolve to avoid it in the future, we are in fact worse off than we were when we first came to believe in Jesus. (Hebrews 6:4-6 reminds us that we can only be baptized once into Christ’s death - it is only by means of the Sacrament of Reconciliation - that is, Confession to a priest - that we can again be restored to our baptismal innocence, if we commit sin after being baptized.)
St. John is speaking here about the heretics - if they had understood what they professed to believe, they would not have fallen prey to heresies, and they would not have separated themselves from the Church.
This is different than someone coming to Jesus with a sincere heart, and then falling away into sin some time later.
But if everyone who seems sincere at the time of their conversion, and then sins afterwards, is having a false conversion, then where is your assurance of salvation? How can you know, until you have died without committing any sin afterwards, that your conversion was as sincere as you believed it to be, at the time?
This is nothing but shifting sand, and not a foundation for a relationship with Christ. No - you have to be able to believe that your initial conversion was sincere, and you also have to be able to believe that when you repent of your post-baptismal sins that your repentance is also sincere - otherwise, you would either have to fall into despair, or else believe that you are made of something stronger than what other human beings are made of, and that you will never sin in your whole life from now on.
Since we believe that no one is actually saved (that is, they have not yet been taken up into Heaven) until after they have persevered until the end (although we can be assured of being in a state of grace at the times when we are actually in a state of grace) this one seems like a round-about way of stating the obvious. We do, indeed, need to persevere to the end. And whenever we sin and make ourselves worthy of Hell, we need to repent and reconvert to Christ.
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jmcrae
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