Salvation: What is necessary to go to heaven?

[PJM]

**CORRECTION NEEDED ON TWO POINTS:

A previous post asked about 1st. John 5:13 “I write this to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.”

Salvation is a PROCESS that requires many things. Faith, grace, charity, obedience, suffering for examples. Mt.19: 17 “And he said to him, “… If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” Jn. 3:5 “Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” Jn. 3:36 " He who believes in the Son has eternal life; **he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.” **

ANYONE foolish enough to risk eternal salvation on ANY one sinlge verse; and often one single teaching is standing on quicksand. This person thought “we ought to have a policy like this.”

Friends: the idea that ANYONE can participate in Christ Glory WITHOUT FIRSTB participating in Christ suffering is foolhardy and does not understand tha absolute need for Divine Justice.

**1Pet.4: 13 **” But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.

**1Pet.5: 1, 9 ** “So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ as well as a partaker in the glory that is to be revealed. Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experience of suffering is required of your brotherhood throughout the world.”

Phil.1: 29 “For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, “

Heb. 2: 10 For it was fitting that he, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering.

SECOND POINT: the idea that everyone in heaven is somehow “Catholic” is NOT a teaching of our RCC. While the CC is the means designed by Christ for ALL to enter into heaven, and alone possesses the very Key to the One gate of entry. It is remotely possible that one MIGHT be able to enter heaven IF they NEVER have been given by God the opportunity to know Him and what he actually teaches. This exception makes salvation iffy for all Christians who have a bible an can read it. NOT impossible, but unlikely.

The Bible teaches Only One God; Only that Gods set of beliefs [not reinterpeted many thoushands of times and ways], and always Only One church. IF you know God, Know Jesus and Do Not belong to the only Faith He personally taught, protects and warrants. You would do well to rethink your position. IF, my friend I am worng; then please show where in the bible it says everyone can decise for themselves what to believe; what is necessary for salvation.**

Everyone in heaven is of ONE ACCORD> all there are commanded and DESIRE to praise and worship our God. Amen.

 

[codefro]

Even if everyone who has ever lived goes to Heaven, they will all be Catholics by the time they get there. We have all kinds of religions down here on earth, but the only religion in Heaven is the Catholic faith, so everyone who is there (regardless of what they were when they were here on earth) is a Catholic.

They have also become Catholics, ever since Jesus died on the Cross for them.

All of them became Catholics at the moment of death in a supernatural manner, if they went to Heaven.

Their worship is not what God (Jesus) gave to His Church to do, so no, it is not pleasing to Him. Nevertheless, it doesn’t mean they have to go to Hell. They could convert during this lifetime, or, after death, they could go to Purgatory and be converted in Purgatory before going to Heaven.

The important question at this point is, do you want to worship yourself, or do you want to worship God? God has given us the Catholic Church, and only the Catholic Church. Everything else is man-made and based on opinions; not God’s truth.

 

[aquinasg]

You have to believe in Christian truths

Pope St. Pius X, Acerbo Nimis (# 2), April 15, 1905:
“And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: ‘We
declare that a great number of those who ARE condemned to eternal
punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those
mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be
numbered among the elect.’”

 

[guanophore]

No, I think this forum and the majority of people have the wrong ideas!

Certainly from the point of view of modern relativism and the New Age mentality, you are right. Most Catholics here on CAF embrace the Apostolic Faith that was once for all deposited to the Church. For that reason, we reject these innovations of relatavism that you seem to have embraced.

There is a lot of superiority on here, thinking that only catholics will be in heaven.

You are mistaken, Lisa. Being part of Christ is not something that we have earned, but something into which we have been born by grace. There is not opportunity for superiority in it. We are not saved by anything that comes from us.

The reason people who gain heaven are “Catholic” is because the Catholic faith is the fullness of God’s revelation of Himself to man. When they see Him face to face, they will see the fullness of Him that has been infallibly preserved by the HS in the Catholic faith.

Really? hmm…what about moses? he was jewish and died before christ came along.

But He was saved only through Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. He looked forward to his redeption by Christ, by whose blood only he could enter heaven. God’s plan of salvation has never changed. The saints have always been saved by grace, through faith.

what about st joseph?  he died before christ was crucified and worshipped as a jew.

And, like all faithful Jews, is saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

What about native americans? they were never baptized. No chance for them I suppose? what about Chinese and Japanese?

Again, Lisa,you need to read the Scriptures and the Catechism. All these things are extensively addressed in the Catholic faith. Just because a person is not a visible Catholic does not mean they can’t be saved.

You people spit out whatever you want to support your argument.

No one here has ‘spit’ anything at you, Lisa. We are trying to teach you about the Catholic faith. If you are not willing to learn, why are you here?

Even when it is not accurate! You see , I am a product of both catholic and protestant parents.

That may explain why you are so poorly catechized.

Am I to believe my protestant relatives’s style of worship is not pleasing to GOd and that they are going to end up in a fiery furnace if they do not convert to catholicism?

You can believe that if you wish, but please do not confuse such a belief with what the CC believes and teaches.

Not gonna happen.

You seem very hostile and resistant to learning about what the CC teaches. One has great difficulty learning if one approaches the subject matter with the degree and extent of defenses you seem to have accumulated.

The superior attitude I find on this forum just feeds my desire to convert to another faith.
which I am seriously considering doing.

I hope that, if you feel you must abandon the faith into which you were baptized, that you will take the time to find out what is actually taught and believed, rather than your erroneous ideas.

If there is a ‘superior attitude’ on this forum, I think you brought it here yourself.

 

[codefro]

Lisahiku, in all lovingness, read the Catechism and come back and talk to us if you are still upset. This is all from the Catechism of our faith.

 

[lisahiku]

no, I won’t be talking to any of you.

I am above that!

 

[NewsTheMan]

no, I won’t be talking to any of you.

I am above that!

Above talking to the likes of us? How sad that you think such a thing I am a terrible sinner, but God has given me His Church to guide me and I will follow Him. If you don’t want to talk, that is fine. However, friend, you are putting your soul at risk. I implore you to read the scriptures and to understand your Catholic faith more. I sincerely hope you will stick around these forums. Indeed - I hope to see you in threads! Sometimes it’s good to battle things out intellectually with charity and love. I don’t have all the answers and I fail many times at presenting the Truth of Christ and His Church - but if you can forgive me for my failings as Christ forgives yours, then I am certain you will start seeing the truth.

 

[lizaanne]

Awesome! What’s my prize?

A cute little smilie dude with a little loving cup!!

~Liza

 

[jmcrae]

A cute little smilie dude with a little loving cup!!

~Liza

I accept, with humility and gratitude. I want to thank my parents, my agent, my supporters and fans …

 

[lizaanne]

I accept, with humility and gratitude. I want to thank my parents, my agent, my supporters and fans …

:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

And the crowd goes wild!!!

~Liza

 

[Steven10]

I’ve found it interesting reading the above discussion. While I haven’t read all posts, I may be repeating someone but I’d like to give my take on this.

Firstly, for me it is about the type of person you are, your being, not doing. It’s having the type of personality that follows the 10 commandments and the beatitudes as normal par for the course. Even though we will fail and sin we throw off this sin with the help of the sacraments and go back to this way of being. Getting into this mode of being is like finding the ultimate wave and letting the wave push you along.

I think what Jesus said about “being like these little children” is important here. Children may be selfish but they are rarely proud (unless they are taught to be) and while they tend to treasure their prized posessions, they are freer than most adults in sharing things that they know will be replenished by their parents. I think this is an important lesson for us because we are really just sharing a bigger playground with bigger kids and we have a bigger Father whom we will go home to and the end of the school day.

Ultimately I think this is what it is all about. Jesus says follow me. He asks us to take up our Cross. He tells us to repent and believe the Good News. I don’t think we can really describe these sayings in terms of do this and don’t do that. I think endure to the end means to not despair. To go through the life God has given us with all its blessings and sufferrings and see it through all the way to the end, without disowning God or hating him for the sufferrings we have had to endure.

In the end, we can’t save ourselves. We may go through our whole lives being good people or it may only be a short time. But we’ve got to look for hand of Jesus, stretched out for us to grab hold of, for him to lift us up to heaven. Only He can do this and he can only do it with our consent. You have to let go of pride to realise that you can’t do it on your own, and you have to hold onto hope to think to reach out to Jesus when the time comes. If you’ve reached out for the hand of Jesus many times in your life it might help when the time comes.

 

[Rich494]

A person is saved by dying and being permitted to enter heaven (or purgatory) by God the Father and Jesus Christ. The Church has never proclaimed an absolute method of getting to this point, especially one in less than ten words. The Church has always taught salvation is very difficult and few are actually saved. It takes a life of acceptance of and cooperation with the Holy Trinity and the Grace of God to save a soul. We are never saved while on this earth.

You mention the Sacraments. The Church says they are necessary. You must be Baptized, and you must be Confirmed/Chrismated if are able to do so (per Summa Theologica). You do not need to confess to a priest to be saved, unless you have committed a mortal sin or haven’t confessed in one year; this essentially means unless you are Baptized on your deathbed, you do not need to confess to be saved. You do not have to receive all seven sacraments to be saved; in fact, as Roman Catholics only permanent (married) deacons can receive all seven. God is not bound to the Sacraments, we are as human beings though. The Sacraments are gifts, graces freely given from God, even to the point of forgiveness (confession) God’s flesh (Eucharist). God can save people outside the Sacraments, but if we deny the Sacraments what (who) are we really denying? The answer to that is God. This certainly does not help our salvation.

Are Protestants going to heaven? I do hope so. It is not my place to say. Being outside Christ’s Church is never a good thing. The Church has traditionally said ,“no.” In recent years this has changed, somewhat.

The Catholic Church has never taught you are saved by good works alone, nor by faith alone in the Lutheran sense. It takes a life of prayer, penance, obedience, virtue, death to self, and of course accepting the Kingdom of God like a child. To be able to do any of this is only by the Grace of God. The saints have always said that an interior (prayer) life is the surest way to salvation.

I hope this helps by the way! Feel free to post more questions on this forum, we’re always happy to help and answer…and of course pray.

 

[Rich494]

Read 1 John 5:13. God’s word plainly states that you may KNOW that you have eternal life. Also, "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yes I know that I have eternal life because God said so.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Read 1 John 5:13. God’s word plainly states that you may KNOW that you have eternal life. Also, "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yes I know that I have eternal life because God said so.

Huh? Explain? You cannot know that you are saved. No way no how. You can only know once you are saved (i.e. in Heaven).

 

[jmcrae]

Read 1 John 5:13. God’s word plainly states that you may KNOW that you have eternal life.

We can know when we are in the state of grace, and that if we were to die at that moment, we would go to Heaven.

Also, "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yes I know that I have eternal life because God said so.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[lisahiku]

Good Point Rich!

 

[guanophore]

Read 1 John 5:13. God’s word plainly states that you may KNOW that you have eternal life. Also, "all who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Yes I know that I have eternal life because God said so.

This is the problem with drawing doctrinal conclusions from one, or even a handful of verses. There are so many other verses that “plainly state” conditional language that have to be ignored in order to espouse this view.

Huh? Explain? You cannot know that you are saved. No way no how. You can only know once you are saved (i.e. in Heaven).

Those that espouse OSAS do not think a “true believer” will ever fail to call upon the name of the Lord. They say that, if a person falls away from the faith, they were never saved in the first place.

Good Point Rich!

No, Lisa. It is not “good” to espouse doctrines that were not believed or taught by the Apostles. These are called "heresies’. Not good.

 

[jmcrae]

Those that espouse OSAS do not think a “true believer” will ever fail to call upon the name of the Lord. They say that, if a person falls away from the faith, they were never saved in the first place.

And if it is true that those who fall away after making a profession of faith “were never saved in the first place,” it completely takes away all assurance of salvation, since if you can make a profession of faith in all sincerity, believing yourself to be giving your life to God, and then it turns out not to be genuine because of subsequent sin, then there is no one who can be assured of anything - he could not even be assured of being in a state of grace at that particular moment in time, never mind saved for all eternity.

(Since if he is already predestined to go to Hell, he wouldn’t even need to commit any sin after making his profession of faith; he would just go to Hell when he died, and all his family and friends would be deceived also, thinking that his profession of faith had saved him, when it didn’t.)

 

[lisahiku]

No, Lisa. It is not “good” to espouse doctrines that were not believed or taught by the Apostles. These are called "heresies’. Not good.

John 14 : 3
probably another heresy too.

 

[NewsTheMan]

John 14 : 3
probably another heresy too.

I’m not sure you’ve read the entire Bible if you think that posting one verse gives you support. I think you missed the parts about Jesus bringing the sword, about being the only way to the Father, about founding a Church, etc.