F
fruitcake
Guest
What does it mean that Jesus saves?
From what does He save us?
From what does He not save us?
From what does He save us?
From what does He not save us?
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S
srferdave
Guest
He saves us from the fires of hell. Generally speaking.
J
Joe_5859
Guest
He saves us from eternal damnation.
He saves us for eternal life with him in Heaven.
He saves us for eternal life with him in Heaven.
D
Della
Guest
He saves us from the tyranny of living in sin…
…and consequently from eternal damnation.
He does not save us from being who we truly are. We will not be absorbed into God like a mere bump in the tapioca.
B
Biggie
Guest
Jesus saves us from ourselves, from the prison of being just what we are.
D
Della
Guest
Well, he doesn’t make us into someone other than who we are as human beings, really. He makes it possible for us to be perfect human beings, by sharing his divine life with us. Yes?
B
Biggie
Guest
No, I agree with what you wrote earlier. Just finished the biography of Thomas More (I strongly recommend it for meditation) and he was fond of comparing the world to a prison in which we are all captive for a day. I was thinking along those lines. And are we not captive to the ills of this body for a day?
D
Della
Guest
Yes, and blindness too. Our will has been weakened, our conscience marred, and our understanding/intellect obscured by sin. “Now we see through a glass darkly.”
I also like C. S. Lewis’ description of a mother and son in a prison with no view of the real world. The mother can only draw images of trees and people and so forth. One day they are released and the son tells his mother that now he sees the beauty of what she had tried to show him but the reality is much more than he could have imagined from her pictures alone.
A
Abu
Guest
Jesus has redeemed us by His Passion and Death – opened heaven for us.
We have to cooperate with Him to be saved. St Paul: “I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His Body which is the Church.” (Col. 1:24). What is lacking in Christ’s suffering is precisely what only we can do – take up our cross and suffer, repent and ask forgiveness, following the dictates of our conscience.
By founding His Church ( His Body) on Peter, He has given us the means to cooperate with Him for salvation through Her teaching, sanctification and governance.
We have to cooperate with Him to be saved. St Paul: “I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His Body which is the Church.” (Col. 1:24). What is lacking in Christ’s suffering is precisely what only we can do – take up our cross and suffer, repent and ask forgiveness, following the dictates of our conscience.
By founding His Church ( His Body) on Peter, He has given us the means to cooperate with Him for salvation through Her teaching, sanctification and governance.
T
teachccd
Guest
Jesus restored us to the supernatural life that Adam and Eve had before they sinned thus reconciling us back to God. This opens the gates of heaven where we can dwell with God for all eternity.
Jesus saves us from the eternal separation that we would have continued in had He not come and offer the Father an infinite sacrifice of love. We cannot reconcile ourselves to an Infinitely Almighty God on our own since any offense to God could only be attoned for by an infinite sacrifice.
He cannot save us from our own rejection of Him. That would be imposed love and that would dispose of the very nature of His essence and our gift of free will.
V
Voice_of_Reason_1
Guest
He hasn’t done this to any Christians I’ve ever known
I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that you don’t know any perfect human beings, Christian or otherwise. Surely God does not give us perfection either.
Only for some though, right?
But only some people have been given the means?
What evidence is there of the reconciliation? God is still unsearchable; unknowable.
In what way have we been united to God other than the mantra that we simply have been?
Can he provide sufficient evidence of this love so as to ensure that we won’t reject Him?
Jesus is supposed to have saved us from sin (to be the propitiation of our sins), yet we are still guilty for the sins that we commit
Jesus is supposed to have saved us from sinning, and yet we sin as cordially as ever before.
Jesus is suppose to have saved us from our separation from God, but what evidence is there that we’ve been drawn closer to God?
Jesus is suppose to have saved us from death that came through one man (Adam), and yet people still perish in the fires of hell.
Jesus, apperently, does not save us from anything, since it is well evidenced that he doesn’t save us fully, impartially, from our guilt, or from our transgressions.
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
I think it means Jesus won’t kill you on judgement day. If you happen to be around to see it, and he does not kill you then you would be one that is saved. Christians have all sorts of ideas about what it means by Jesus saves. He never saved an amputee from being an amputee. He preformed miracles, and if you believe in him you will share an eternity with him in an afterlife called heaven, this is where you will hear the constant screaming out for vengence from the martyrs the entire time you are there if lucky, until the final judgement day. Sounds like fun!
I guess he is saving people from himself in a way. In another way, he is not sending anyone to hell of course! But, they get there if he decides they should, I mean if that person decides to send themselves there then it’s all because of the free will and love thing.
From what does he not save us?
Suffering here, which somehow works into his plan for the greater good of all yet we just cant understand that kind of deep wisdom, only God can.
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Abu
Guest
Voice of Reason
If you would use reason in your search, you would find in the thread Is Salvation Outside the Catholic Church Possible? that Christ wills all to be saved, and that is why His Church offers His truths to all through Her Magisterium, Tradition and Sacred Scriptures – as I, and others, do here.
See among others, posts #34,36, 58, 67.
BTW, religion = a moral virtue by which we are disposed to render to God the worship He deserves. This would exclude the false worship or idolatry of senses, or objects.
If you would use reason in your search, you would find in the thread Is Salvation Outside the Catholic Church Possible? that Christ wills all to be saved, and that is why His Church offers His truths to all through Her Magisterium, Tradition and Sacred Scriptures – as I, and others, do here.
See among others, posts #34,36, 58, 67.
BTW, religion = a moral virtue by which we are disposed to render to God the worship He deserves. This would exclude the false worship or idolatry of senses, or objects.
A
Abu
Guest
fruitcake & strawberryjam
See Post #9
Salvation is impossible if we choose freely and knowingly to reject God’s offer at death. Purgatory exists as a means to purify us after death from earthly sins if we have tried to know God’s Will and followed our consciences in this life.
See Post #9
Salvation is impossible if we choose freely and knowingly to reject God’s offer at death. Purgatory exists as a means to purify us after death from earthly sins if we have tried to know God’s Will and followed our consciences in this life.
A
Abu
Guest
God wills all to be saved and just as clearly He has given each free-will to do good and avoid evil. The choice is ours. He has provided our redemption and we have to choose salvation or otherwise.
Don’t confuse religion with all the subjects you have chosen to attach against the term – that’s why I defined it. You should like Pope John Paul’s encyclical Fides et Ratio (Faith and Reason).
Don’t confuse religion with all the subjects you have chosen to attach against the term – that’s why I defined it. You should like Pope John Paul’s encyclical Fides et Ratio (Faith and Reason).
S
StrawberryJam
Guest
The bible says God created all to know and love and worship him. I am wondering how literal folks think this passage really is, because there is another one that says if you knock the door will be opened to you, seek you shall find. I’m still going to give it some more time, but I think I have done just about everything possible to rule these things out before deciding if they are false statements.
V
Voice_of_Reason_1
Guest
And that’s pretty well what you have to do, eventually. Because there isn’t one great leap of faith; there is a multitude of leaps, all which make a vicious assault on natural reason, to which our heavenly father is the author.
Anybody can mantra “people have the will to accept or reject God!” all day, but then what of those people who have not (and has been made perfectly clear) been given the will to know God. Surely, unless we are the authors of our own ability to will, we cannot be blamed for having a will so deficient as to lead us to eternal torment - the only just punishment for finite sins!
From what does he save us, indeed.
A
Abu
Guest
Having the ability to ask quiestions, you also have the ability to seek the answers – there are many proofs for the existence of God, and Jesus of Nazareth is the only one who claimed to be God of many (from Buddha, the Hindu deities, Confusius, Mohammed), and His recorded miracles followed by His witnessed resurrection attest to that.
Our ability to appreciate beauty, and to think and reason enable us to seek and find.
The mind or intellect produces ideas such as being, goodness, truth, beauty, virtue, honour, ambition, justice, wisdom. Can any organ lay hold of such as these? Can you smell or see ideas? Can you imagine what ambition would look like, and draw a picture of it? These are individual limitations or settings which are beyond the grasp of any bodily sense organ. They require a spiritual power to comprehend them. This power is present in a spiritual substance which we call the soul.
When this is not thought through, the need for a spiritual source for a spiritual entity – the soul – is not perceived. The source or creator of the soul we call God
Our ability to appreciate beauty, and to think and reason enable us to seek and find.
The mind or intellect produces ideas such as being, goodness, truth, beauty, virtue, honour, ambition, justice, wisdom. Can any organ lay hold of such as these? Can you smell or see ideas? Can you imagine what ambition would look like, and draw a picture of it? These are individual limitations or settings which are beyond the grasp of any bodily sense organ. They require a spiritual power to comprehend them. This power is present in a spiritual substance which we call the soul.
When this is not thought through, the need for a spiritual source for a spiritual entity – the soul – is not perceived. The source or creator of the soul we call God
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