Salvation

emhansen6019 · Jun 16, 2010

As Catholics, what exactly do we believe is necessary for salvation? If a protestant were to ask me that question, how would I respond? Am I right by saying baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, and repentence for sins are necessary (of course the grace of God preceeds all three)?

I understand and believe that salvation can be lost. We can certainly turn our backs on God and refuse his love and forgiveness.

I am asking this because I will be getting together with two of my non-Catholic Christian friends on Friday afternoon (hopefully!) to talk about baptism and salvation.

Advocatus_Fidei · Jun 16, 2010

emhansen6019 said:
As Catholics, what exactly do we believe is necessary for salvation? If a protestant were to ask me that question, how would I respond? Am I right by saying baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, and repentence for sins are necessary (of course the grace of God preceeds all three)?

I understand and believe that salvation can be lost. We can certainly turn our backs on God and refuse his love and forgiveness.

I am asking this because I will be getting together with two of my non-Catholic Christian friends on Friday afternoon (hopefully!) to talk about baptism and salvation.

You only need repentance for sins if you commit any after you are baptised. also the term faith in Jesus Christ can mean anything you need somethign more defined than that.

To be baptised and hold the Catholic Faith I would say if I had to sum it up in a sentence.

emhansen6019 · Jun 16, 2010

“faith in Jesus Christ”- I would say that means accepting Jesus as my Lord, as my Savior, as the one who died on the cross for me. It means accepting his gift of love and forgivness, his total gift of self for me and responding to that gift by striving to give all of myself, my entire life, to Him.

Advocatus_Fidei · Jun 16, 2010

emhansen6019 said:
“faith in Jesus Christ”- I would say that means accepting Jesus as my Lord, as my Savior, as the one who died on the cross for me. It means accepting his gift of love and forgivness, his total gift of self for me and responding to that gift by striving to give all of myself, my entire life, to Him.

What about obeying His commandments?

emhansen6019 · Jun 16, 2010

I guess I implicitly assumed that

striving to give all of myself, my entire life, to Him.

meant obeying all His commandments.

You’re right, I should’ve explicitly said that as well.

Edited:

“faith in Jesus Christ”- I would say that means accepting Jesus as my Lord, as my Savior, as the one who died on the cross for me. It means accepting Hisgift of love and forgivness, His total gift of self for me and responding to that gift by striving to give all of myself, my entire life, to Him and to obey all of His commandments.

emhansen6019 · Jun 16, 2010

I guess I implicitly assumed that

striving to give all of myself, my entire life, to Him.

included obeying all His commandments.

You’re right, I should’ve explicitly said that as well.

Edited:

“faith in Jesus Christ”- I would say that means accepting Jesus as my Lord, as my Savior, as the one who died on the cross for me. It means accepting Hisgift of love and forgivness, His total gift of self for me and responding to that gift by striving to give all of myself, my entire life, to Him and to obey all of His commandments.

jerry_kelso · Jun 16, 2010

emhansen6019 said:
As Catholics, what exactly do we believe is necessary for salvation? If a protestant were to ask me that question, how would I respond? Am I right by saying baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, and repentence for sins are necessary (of course the grace of God preceeds all three)?

I understand and believe that salvation can be lost. We can certainly turn our backs on God and refuse his love and forgiveness.

I am asking this because I will be getting together with two of my non-Catholic Christian friends on Friday afternoon (hopefully!) to talk about baptism and salvation.

Emhansen;
Romans tells us we are saved by grave through faith; Romans 14:6
Each age was saved by grace in this respect; it took unmerited favor of God’s by faith bellieving.
The way that it was different in each age was according to their revelation of God.
Romans 2;12-16. Conscience-befoe law; mosaic law, and those after the written law
They will be judged accordingly.
Even though salvation is without works as far as attaining, but we must have works as fruit of obedience.
Salvation is present and last til the end of your life. (1Timothy 6:19) Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
For timesake Iwill make another post on water baptism. God bless! Jerry kelso

jerry_kelso · Jun 16, 2010

Water baptism: This subject is one of the most divisive of the major doctrines. In 1 Corinthians 1:10; Paul said the church was to say the same thing so there would be no divisions among them.He heard ther were contensions among them of the house of Chloe vs.11. Some said, they we’re of either Paul,Apollos,Cephas,and Christ; vs. 12. Was christ divided?, Paul crucified for you? Or was Paul baptizied for you? Vs. 13.
I do not disagree with the fact that water baptiism was going on throughout the New Testament. I don’t believe you can find a gentile baptizing anyone, Jew or gentile. If this is true, then the water baptism would be jewish requirement. If this is true then neither Baptism Regeneration or water baptism according to a good conscience would mean what we think.
First, I will address Baptismal regeneration. Going back to 1 Corinthians 1:14-17; Paul said he thanked God that he didn’t baptize any of them but Crispus and Gaius and Stephanas. And there wasn’t anybody else that he knew. If it was a requirement for salvation to be water baptized then Paul was sinning or else nobody ever got saved under his ministry. So batismal regeneration cannot be true. There are some who get puffed up about water baptism for a good conscience that the first thing they say when the see someone is how many got baptized that week or month or for that year. They say that to boast about membership. Sadly, many of them live like the devil and the large number of them are members but never attend. They are in the book of numbers instead of the book of acts.
The first question is why was Jesus baptized?
Matthew says he came to fulfill all righteousness. Jesus lived under the age of the mosaic law, which we were never under. So it was the righteousness of the law because he said in chapter 5 he came not to destroy the law but to fulfil the law. This also would show the levitical priesthood would be replaced by Christ the head of the Melchizadek and so we would be kings and priests; revelation 5:10. Luke 3:23 says Jesus was about 30 years of age when he was baptized. Jews had to be baptized to enter Gods service.
Matthew 28:19 called the Great Commission spoken to the disciples. They were to baptize in the name of the Father Son, and Holy Ghost. Nowhere in Acts does it say the baptized in the name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost. All the accounts were in Jesus name which could only mean that Jesus as Savior has the authority and he speaks for the Father and the Holy Ghost for bby no other name can be saved; Romans 4:10-12.
In Acts 10:48; Peter asked before he commanded them to be water baptized.
In 1 Peter 4:21 he said baptism was a like figure of salvation to a good conscience not the filthiness of the flesh. Peter was talking to messianic jews who would understand this as concerning resurrection. Paul in Acts 21:23; prified himself with four other jews; this dealt with water baptism. However, in vs. 25 he said the gentiles were not under this requirement. Hebrews 9:10 mentions the diver washings done away with which dealt with water baptism.
So the weight of the evidence bibically is water baptism is neither for baptismal regeneration or a new testament orrdinance, or a good. Consccience to gentile christians.
I say this out of love and because I am held accountable to God, and I am a seeker of the truth.
God Bless! Jerry Kelso

Bookcat · Jun 17, 2010

Old Jimmy Akin files

cin.org/users/james/reference/info_salvation.htm

Bookcat · Jun 17, 2010

PJM · Jun 17, 2010

=emhansen6019;6752834]As Catholics, what exactly do we believe is necessary for salvation? If a protestant were to ask me that question, how would I respond? Am I right by saying baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, and repentence for sins are necessary (of course the grace of God preceeds all three)?

I understand and believe that salvation can be lost. We can certainly turn our backs on God and refuse his love and forgiveness.

I am asking this because I will be getting together with two of my non-Catholic Christian friends on Friday afternoon (hopefully!) to talk about baptism and salvation.

Must beleive in God Triune [Mt. 12: 31-32]
Must have a Christian Baptism [John 3:5]
Must obey the Commandments [Matt. 19:17]
Must die with no unconfessed/ unforgiven Mortal Sin [1 Jn. 1: 8-10; 1 Jn. 5: 16-17, John 20: 19-23].

Go with God; be sure to pray for help and insist on a Catholic Bible.

COPLAND_3 · Jun 17, 2010

emhansen6019 said:
As Catholics, what exactly do we believe is necessary for salvation? If a protestant were to ask me that question, how would I respond? Am I right by saying baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, and repentence for sins are necessary (of course the grace of God preceeds all three)?

I understand and believe that salvation can be lost. We can certainly turn our backs on God and refuse his love and forgiveness.

I am asking this because I will be getting together with two of my non-Catholic Christian friends on Friday afternoon (hopefully!) to talk about baptism and salvation.

The quick answer is we become Christians by repentance, faith, and baptism. Then after we become Christians we live lives of repentance, faith, and confession. Baptism washes away all our sins, confession takes care of our sins after baptism, because more than likely we will sin after baptism, because baptism does not wash away our future sins. Depending on what denomination your friends are from, some protestants believe that faith alone saves and takes care of past, present, and future sins, as Catholics we believe that is wrong. We are a Sacramental Church, it is hard for people from non-sacramental churches to understand unless they are open minded and willing to think outside of their box. I will pray for your time with your friends to be productive!

peeteyg · Jun 21, 2010

We are saved by Grace thru faith working in love. Any Protestant would appreciate this as a response.

jerry_kelso · Jun 22, 2010

Peeteyg. I believe all believers would agree with saved by grace through faith. working in love.
However, there are no catholics or protestants in the body of Christ the same as there are no Jews or Gentiles in the body of Christ! God Bless, Jerry Kelso.

PJM · Jun 22, 2010

=jerry kelso;6769867]Peeteyg. I believe all believers would agree with saved by grace through faith. working in love.
However, there are no catholics or protestants in the body of Christ the same as there are no Jews or Gentiles in the body of Christ! God Bless, Jerry Kelso.

REALLY?

Then my friend why are there over 100 references to ONE CHURCH in the NT?

How do you explain Matt. 16:19?

Why were there no other “churches” for about 1,500 years?

The CC is THEE Bible Church, not simply “A” bible church.

The CC birthed the bible [see 2 Tim. 3:16-17, John 14:16-17, an John 17:15-19… especially v. 19!.

The CC collected the boks for the OT

The CC Wrote the entire NT

The CC set the Orginal Canon which was God aproved!

We are delighted to have you as Brethern; but it’s not what God wanted; and becaue God “never changes” it is not wht God wants today.

**Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; SINGULAR] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

**Eph. 4: 4 **“There is one body One Church] and one Spirit, One Heart and One Mind] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One Triune God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, [By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. “

Love and prayers and WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

jerry_kelso · Jun 24, 2010

PJM said:
REALLY?

Then my friend why are there over 100 references to ONE CHURCH in the NT?

How do you explain Matt. 16:19?

Why were there no other “churches” for about 1,500 years?

The CC is THEE Bible Church, not simply “A” bible church.

The CC birthed the bible [see 2 Tim. 3:16-17, John 14:16-17, an John 17:15-19… especially v. 19!.

The CC collected the boks for the OT

The CC Wrote the entire NT

The CC set the Orginal Canon which was God aproved!

We are delighted to have you as Brethern; but it’s not what God wanted; and becaue God “never changes” it is not wht God wants today.

**Eph. 2:19

So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; SINGULAR] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

**Eph. 4: 4 **“There is one body One Church] and one Spirit, One Heart and One Mind] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One Triune God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, [By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. “

Love and prayers and WELCOME TO THE FORUM!
Pjm: thanks for the welcome,

There is one body of christ made up of obedient believers of Christ
Matthew 16:19; doesn’t really pertain to the church era.
It is one thing to believe that the catholic church is the preserver of the bible which is ridiculous in itself; but to say that you birthed is worse for it put you in the position of the jew whowrote the bible.
I thought protestants were bad about going to extremes but I believe catholics are just about as bad. The only difference it seems like is that many protestants go to extreme on a few pet scriptures and the catholics on a whole bunch more. The one baptism is a spiritual baptism not water baptism. Even all catholics do not believe this.
I’m all for apostolic authority if it’s of God. Even if had the truth they are mixed with other doctrines that are man-made and are not found in the bible and does not meet biblical criteria at all. The apostles didn’t put up with this. If you think they did read about annanias and sapphira. Jerry kelso

PJM · Jun 24, 2010

jerry_kelso said:
Pjm: thanks for the welcome,

There is one body of christ made up of obedient believers of Christ

Matthew 16:19; doesn’t really pertain to the church era.

It is one thing to believe that the catholic church is the preserver of the bible which is ridiculous in itself; but to say that you birthed is worse for it put you in the position of the jew whowrote the bible.
I thought protestants were bad about going to extremes but I believe catholics are just about as bad. The only difference it seems like is that many protestants go to extreme on a few pet scriptures and the catholics on a whole bunch more. The one baptism is a spiritual baptism not water baptism. Even all catholics do not believe this.
I’m all for apostolic authority if it’s of God. Even if had the truth they are mixed with other doctrines that are man-made and are not found in the bible and does not meet biblical criteria at all. The apostles didn’t put up with this. If you think they did read about annanias and sapphira. Jerry kelso

***OK Jerry?

By the way it was CATHOLIC JEWS who assembled the bible and wrote the entire NT, assembled the Canon; but I don’t suppose that matters to you? NOT just my opinion; historical fact easly proven.***

READ Matt. 16:15-19, Matt. 18:18, Matt 28-19-20 and…

**Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; SINGULAR] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

**Eph. 4: 4 **“There is one body One Church] and one Spirit, One Heart and One Mind] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, One Triune God] one faith, One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all."

QUESTION JERRY? How many new church [s?] and faith [s?] did Jesus start? Why are there in excess of 100 NT references for "The [SINGULAR] church or One Church?

Love and prayers,
Pat

fhansen · Jun 24, 2010

emhansen6019 said:
As Catholics, what exactly do we believe is necessary for salvation? If a protestant were to ask me that question, how would I respond? Am I right by saying baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, and repentence for sins are necessary (of course the grace of God preceeds all three)?

I understand and believe that salvation can be lost. We can certainly turn our backs on God and refuse his love and forgiveness.

I am asking this because I will be getting together with two of my non-Catholic Christian friends on Friday afternoon (hopefully!) to talk about baptism and salvation.

For Catholics salvation means, paraphrasing, **“to be holy as He is holy” **(1Peter 1:16) and “perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matt 5:48).

And for us this means obeying the commandments-
**“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.” **(Matt 5:17-20).

And to obey the commandments means to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves because-
“Love is the fulfillment of the Law” (Rom 13:10).

Faith is never enough by itself because, while faith can exist without love, love always implies and includes faith, along with other virtues. Love rather than faith, fulfills the Law.

As St Teresa of Avila said, “It is love alone that gives worth to all things.”

jerry_kelso · Jun 25, 2010

PJM said:
***OK Jerry?

By the way it was CATHOLIC JEWS who assembled the bible and wrote the entire NT, assembled the Canon; but I don’t suppose that matters to you? NOT just my opinion; historical fact easly proven.***

READ Matt. 16:15-19, Matt. 18:18, Matt 28-19-20 and…

**Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; SINGULAR] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

**Eph. 4: 4 **“There is one body One Church] and one Spirit, One Heart and One Mind] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, One Triune God] one faith, One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all."

QUESTION JERRY? How many new church [s?] and faith [s?] did Jesus start? Why are there in excess of 100 NT references for "The [SINGULAR] church or One Church?

Love and prayers,
Pat

PJM: 1. There were no Catholic jews in christ days or the early church days.
2. The church was never called the catholic church. It was always the church followed by whatever city it was in such as: Ephesus or smyrna etc.
3. People are mislead by your usage of catholic; which means universal.anybody could take a name and label their church and not have the truth. I could start a church and call it “The Church Of the Truth according to the original apostles” and be just as wrong in my doctrine as all get out.
4.Peter’s name meant rock but Jesus is the true living rock and foundation. Peter said he was a living stone: 1 Peter 2:5 Likewise we are all like Peter in that we are liively stones and how we must be careful how we build on top of the foundation of Jesus Christ.
5. The authority that christ gave Peter to the kingdom had to do more with the messianic kingdom than the church.
6. The earliest tradition of Peter being in Rome and starting. A church is the latter part of the 2nd century. This was about 100 years after Peter had died. There is no concrete proof that Peter died in Rome or that he was ever in Italy. It’s clear in scripture there was apostle in Rome before Paul. Acts. 2:10 shows the gospel being taken to Rome most likely from Jews on the day of pentecost.the church was established for a while before it became well known throughout the Roman Empirer and by the time Paul got there. Romans 15:23 The church had been in communication with Paul, not Peter.It was Paul’s policy not to build on another man’s foundation; 3omans 15:20-21 and 2 Corinthians 10:14-16.
7. The weight of the biblical truth shows how you don’t reconcile the scriptures correctly and how you ignore certain facts of history which bring about the result of mere conjecture not concrete proof.God bless! Jerry Kelso

PJM · Jun 25, 2010

=jerry kelso PJM: 1. There were no Catholic jews in christ days or the early church days.

Excuse me for smiling

What is your proof of this?

you ignore certain facts of history which bring about the result of mere conjecture not concrete proof.God bless! Jerry Kelso

=jerry kelso PJM: 1. There were no Catholic jews in christ days or the early church days.

Excuse me for smiling

What is your proof of this? The Apostles were mostly Jews and are Definitely Catholics!

“The Way” were later called “Christians” who later were [are] called “Catholics.”** Notice I’m providing evidence of my position.

**

“The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110. The words run: “Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church.”… “From this time forward the technical signification of the word Catholic meets us with increasing frequency both East and West, until by the beginning of the fourth century it seems to have almost entirely supplanted the primitive and more general meaning.” Encyclopedia

You will notice that the term Protestant is not in the bible either and it came along about 1,400 YEARS AFTER the term “Catholic.” Friend your Pontificating without knowing what your talking about.

4.Peter’s name meant rock but Jesus is the true living rock and foundation. Peter said he was a living stone: 1 Peter 2:5 Likewise we are all like Peter in that we are liively stones and how we must be careful how we build on top of the foundation of Jesus Christ.

Again you don’t know what your talking about. PLUS it’s a different topic. You want to start a discussion on Peter and “the Rock” start a new String and PLEASE let me know about it.

The authority that christ gave Peter to the kingdom had to do more with the messianic kingdom than the church.

What the heck is the “messianic Kingdom“? If it has to do with getting to heaven then the terms are synonymous.

The earliest tradition of Peter being in Rome and starting. A church is the latter part of the 2nd century.

“It is an indisputably established historical fact that St. Peter laboured in Rome during the last portion of his life, and there ended his earthly course by martyrdom. As to the duration of his Apostolic activity in the Roman capital, the continuity or otherwise of his residence there, the details and success of his labours, and the chronology of his arrival and death, all these questions are uncertain, and can be solved only on hypotheses more or less well-founded. The essential fact is that Peter died at Rome: this constitutes the historical foundation of the claim of the Bishops of Rome to the Apostolic Primacy of Peter. St. Peter’s residence and death in Rome are established beyond contention as historical facts by a series of distinct testimonies extending from the end of the first to the end of the second centuries, and issuing from several lands.”

The weight of the biblical truth shows how you don’t reconcile the scriptures correctly and how you ignore certain facts of history which bring about the result of mere conjecture not concrete proof. God bless! Jerry Kelso

Thank you for your observation friend. By the way where in the Bible does it say “everything is in the bible.” The closest references I could find are: Jn. 20: 30-31; Jn. 21: 24-25. Perhaps you can further educate me?

Love and prayers my friend,
Pat

Salvation

emhansen6019

Guest

Advocatus_Fidei

Guest

emhansen6019

Guest

Advocatus_Fidei

Guest

emhansen6019

Guest

emhansen6019

Guest

jerry_kelso

Guest

jerry_kelso

Guest

Bookcat

Guest

Bookcat

Guest

PJM

Guest

COPLAND_3

Guest

peeteyg

Guest

jerry_kelso

Guest

PJM

Guest

jerry_kelso

Guest

PJM

Guest

fhansen

Guest

jerry_kelso

Guest

PJM

Guest