Salvation

[SnakeMauler]

Would it be accurate to say that all that can be said about salvation is that it is a gift from God, and that are works and faith are sort of like a “payment back” to God for his endless love? (Ephesians 2:4-10)

 

[JKH]

You are correct in saying that salvation is a gift from God ,however, I dont think that faith is a payment check. As with any gift ,you have the choice to accept it or not. Faith is showing your acceptance of God’s wonderful gift and through true faith, works are bound to follow. Works are the fruits of faith. Gifts reuire no payback.

 

[MarkThompson]

Would it be accurate to say that all that can be said about salvation is that it is a gift from God, and that are works and faith are sort of like a “payment back” to God for his endless love? (Ephesians 2:4-10)

No, that’s not .01% of what can be said about salvation. It’s a whole field of theology, called soteriology. I also don’t think the way you phrase it is particularly right. Salvation is a gift from God, but it doesn’t make sense to talk about “payment” for a gift.

 

[SnakeMauler]

No, that’s not .01% of what can be said about salvation. It’s a whole field of theology, called soteriology. I also don’t think the way you phrase it is particularly right. Salvation is a gift from God, but it doesn’t make sense to talk about “payment” for a gift.

There was this side note on the side of my bible, and it was sort of unclear, I guess I expressed it wrong.

 

[guanophore]

There was this side note on the side of my bible, and it was sort of unclear, I guess I expressed it wrong.

I think we get into difficulty with our separated brethren over such terms, but your sentiment is right. Eternal life is God’s gift to us - unmerited favor. Our faith, working through love, producing the works that He has prepared before hand that we should walk in them, is how we show our gratitude for the gift, or appreciate the gift, or “give back” to him from that which He gifted us. Is that what you were trying to say?

 

[SnakeMauler]

Yeah, I think that is what I was trying to say. The main reason I was asking about this is just because well, I apologize for the crudeness, but I sometimes find comitt the sin of masturbation usually late at night or early in the morning. And then I just feel unclean for the rest of the day and unworthy of reading scriptures or even wearing my crucifix. Now I have gone for long periods of time not masturbating, usually after going to confession. So perhaps I just feel a bit overburdened by sin and am do for another confession. However, essentially every time I masturbate I feel as though if I were to die at that moment, I would go to hell, and that God would be extremely mad at me. Of course, I feel great about myself when I don’t, its just sometimes I happen to and then I just feel completely angry about myself. I know about theology of the body and stuff and all that so you could say I’m extra hypocritical and whatnot. I cannot take salvation for granted as some people on here say. To me, that is bold, and arrogant. Our God is the same God that basically annihilated people for sexual sins. And then I think of verses like Revelation 3:16. If I cannot obey God’s commandments all the time and never give into my own sick compulsions, then I am not fully “with” God. I am lukewarm. Of course, I am not a porn addict or anything, but I still feeel completely like **** for masturbating. I mean, last confession I went I made a sincere promise to never masturbate or look at porn again, and for a long time, I did go without doing either. Of course, I’ve masturbated several times and I’ve looked at porn maybe like 2 times, which is despicable. but I dunno. Maybe I should just go to weekly confession next year at the Neuman center at college. What do you guys think about this?

 

[guanophore]

Yeah, I think that is what I was trying to say. The main reason I was asking about this is just because well, I apologize for the crudeness, but I sometimes find comitt the sin of masturbation usually late at night or early in the morning. And then I just feel unclean for the rest of the day and unworthy of reading scriptures or even wearing my crucifix.

Yes, this is a common experience with any sin, and all are ‘crude’ in the eyes of God… Have you ever read the Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis? It is fictional, but it describes well how the evil one gets a foot in the door through sin, then immediately pushes in a wedge between ourselves and accesst to grace. In such cases, one must do the oppostive of how one “feels”.

RUN, don’t walk to confession, because running into grace will break you out of slavery.

Find a parish close by that has an early morning Mass and go 15 min. early and ask Father to confess you before Mass, or call and ask for a good time.

 Now I have gone for long periods of time not masturbating, usually after going to confession. So perhaps I just feel a bit overburdened by sin and am do for another confession.

You are right. The graces we receive through confession strengthen us against sins, just like the grace of the Eucharist. So, after you are confessed, go often and receive the Eucharist because thereby He will preserve you in holiness.

 However, essentially every time I masturbate I feel as though if I were to die at that moment, I would go to hell, and that God would be extremely mad at me. Of course, I feel great about myself when I don't, its just sometimes I happen to and then I just feel completely angry about myself.

This is the case for any mortal sins. That is the main reason we have to focus on prevention, rather than treatmetn afterwards.

I know about theology of the body and stuff and all that so you could say I'm extra hypocritical and whatnot. I cannot take salvation for granted as some people on here say. To me, that is bold, and arrogant.

This is wise. To those whom much is given, much is expected.

 Our God is the same God that basically annihilated people for sexual sins.

What makes you say this?

  And then I think of verses like Revelation 3:16. If I cannot obey God's commandments all the time and never give into my own sick compulsions, then I am not fully "with" God. I am lukewarm. Of course, I am not a porn addict or anything, but I still feeel completely like **** for masturbating. I mean, last confession I went I made a sincere promise to never masturbate or look at porn again, and for a long time, I did go without doing either. Of course, I've masturbated several times and I've looked at porn maybe like  2 times, which is despicable. but I dunno. Maybe I should just go to weekly confession next year at the Neuman center at college. What do you guys think about this?

Yes, go to weekly confession or upon every offense, whichever is more frequent. Sexual sins don’t need to be treated any differently than other sins. One must RUN to confession, then make reparation. Avoid the “near occasions of sin” by avoiding putting yourself in situations where the sins are likely to occur. It is no different than an alcoholic who wants to stay sober. It behooves him to stay out of the bar.

Substitute those activities you mention above when you are tempted. Get up and read scripture aloud, or pray aloud, or find another Spiritual enrichment, go to daily Mass, bible study, prayer meeting. It is a matter of spiritual discipline to move yourself away from temptation and into grace. Don’t beat up on yourself for failing to keep your promise, but instead, continue to make the same vow every day. Read Rom. 7, and you will be comforted that this is the struggle of humanity with the tendency toward sins that is in our human nature.

But be sure you keep reading through Rom 8:1!

You will remain in my prayers brother. Fight the good fight of faith.

 

[SnakeMauler]

Yes, this is a common experience with any sin, and all are ‘crude’ in the eyes of God… Have you ever read the Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis? It is fictional, but it describes well how the evil one gets a foot in the door through sin, then immediately pushes in a wedge between ourselves and accesst to grace. In such cases, one must do the oppostive of how one “feels”.

RUN, don’t walk to confession, because running into grace will break you out of slavery.

Find a parish close by that has an early morning Mass and go 15 min. early and ask Father to confess you before Mass, or call and ask for a good time.

You are right. The graces we receive through confession strengthen us against sins, just like the grace of the Eucharist. So, after you are confessed, go often and receive the Eucharist because thereby He will preserve you in holiness.

This is the case for any mortal sins. That is the main reason we have to focus on prevention, rather than treatmetn afterwards.

This is wise. To those whom much is given, much is expected.

What makes you say this?

Yes, go to weekly confession or upon every offense, whichever is more frequent. Sexual sins don’t need to be treated any differently than other sins. One must RUN to confession, then make reparation. Avoid the “near occasions of sin” by avoiding putting yourself in situations where the sins are likely to occur. It is no different than an alcoholic who wants to stay sober. It behooves him to stay out of the bar.

Substitute those activities you mention above when you are tempted. Get up and read scripture aloud, or pray aloud, or find another Spiritual enrichment, go to daily Mass, bible study, prayer meeting. It is a matter of spiritual discipline to move yourself away from temptation and into grace. Don’t beat up on yourself for failing to keep your promise, but instead, continue to make the same vow every day. Read Rom. 7, and you will be comforted that this is the struggle of humanity with the tendency toward sins that is in our human nature.

But be sure you keep reading through Rom 8:1!

You will remain in my prayers brother. Fight the good fight of faith.

Thanks man. I appreciate the advice. And mainly when I was talking about Sodom and Gomorah.

 

[guanophore]

Thanks man. I appreciate the advice. And mainly when I was talking about Sodom and Gomorah.

I thought perhaps you were. However grave as the sexual sins were, they were not the root cause of the destruction of the cities.

Ezek.16
[46] And your elder sister is Sama’ria, who lived with her daughters to the north of you; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you, is Sodom with her daughters.
[48] As I live, says the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters have not done as you and your daughters have done.
[49] [SIGN]Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. [/SIGN]

Not to excuse all the other sins that were rampant in the city, but they all are rooted in a lack of love. Other translations say lack of hospitality. In the desert, refusing food and water to a traveller could be a death sentence.

I think sometimes we tend to categorize sexual sins as though they are worse than any other sin, but they are not. The same remedies work with them all. Repentance, confession, healing and spiritual disciplines.