Salvation

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DustinsDad:
In the Catholic Church, salvation is by the grace of God - and that grace is a free gift of God.

And since the gifts of the Sacraments, instituted and given to us by Christ, are the normative means by which grace is given to us, then sure…one could say the seven Sacraments are a chief means of salvation - especially Baptism, Confession (or Reconciliation), and the Holy Eucharist.
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OKAY, THANK YOU!
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DustinsDad:
And I would just hasten to say that a Sacrament is not something we do for God. It’s something God does for us 🙂

WELL, THE O.T. PROPHECIES THE DEATH OF JESUS; THE N.T. FULFILLS IT, AND THAT’S WHAT JOHN 3:16 SAYS *THAT’S *WHAT GOD DID FOR US. THE OTHER THINGS ARE TRULY WHAT WE DO IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD (SANCTIFICATION).
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TESSfromCALVARY said:
*WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS, “HOW DOES A CATHOLIC OBTAIN SALVATION?” *
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Hi Tess,

To obtain salvation we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

-Peace in Christ-

DustinsDad
 
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DustinsDad:
Hi Tess,

To obtain salvation we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

-Peace in Christ-

DustinsDad
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Excellently put. We must always remember that Catholics do not believe in a salvation by works, but in a Salvation through God’s free Gift of Grace which enables us to Live the Faith in Love through Justice and Mercy. Thanks and God Bless.
 
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Ignatius:
The sacrifice of Jesus Christ at His crusifixion gained us forgiveness.
Grace is a gift freely given by God. We are saved by Grace through Faith Working in Love.

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. ARE THEY A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE, AFTER ONE IS SAVED BY FAITH?
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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Ignatius:
The sacrifice of Jesus Christ at His crusifixion gained us forgiveness.
Grace is a gift freely given by God. We are saved by Grace through Faith Working in Love.

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. ARE THEY A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE, AFTER ONE IS SAVED BY FAITH?
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Are what a matter of obedience??? Also, as stated throughout this thread, a gentle reminder that we are saved by Grace (God’s free Gift). Thanks and God Bless.
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DustinsDad:
To obtain salvation we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

SOUNDS GOOD TO ME! BUT,WHY DO OTHER CATHOLICS ADD STUFF?
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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DustinsDad:
And I would just hasten to say that a Sacrament is not something we do for God. It’s something God does for us 🙂

WELL, THE O.T. PROPHECIES THE DEATH OF JESUS; THE N.T. FULFILLS IT, AND THAT’S WHAT JOHN 3:16 SAYS *THAT’S *
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WHAT GOD DID FOR US. THE OTHER THINGS ARE TRULY WHAT WE DO IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD (SANCTIFICATION).

Okay, but justification without complete sanctification is an incomplete justification. Scripture tells us nothing unclean will enter heaven (Rev 21:27) so sanctification is also a key part of Salvation - being with the Lord forever in heaven…so the sanctification is also what God does for us, not what we do for God. I see sanctification as the infinite grace Christ won for us once and for all on Calvary continually being poured out on us.

Also, we don’t do anything in obedience to God apart from God - that is on our own…it’s all God’s grace, loving us, pushing us, nudging us, (sometimes smacking us upside the head ;-)) toward a closer relationship with Himself.

That’s why I say the Sacraments are God’s gifts to us, something He does for us - not the other way around.

Peace in Christ!

DustinsDad
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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Ignatius:
The sacrifice of Jesus Christ at His crusifixion gained us forgiveness.
Grace is a gift freely given by God. We are saved by Grace through Faith Working in Love.

THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. ARE THEY A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE, AFTER ONE IS SAVED BY FAITH?
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this is kinda word play, and could get twisted. Grace does the saving…our Faith is the choice to accept that Grace…which is also required in the proccess…can’t really seperate the two. Jesus also calls us to do works, for with out them Faith is dead…

[Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation] all are a requirment in the formula of salvation…if you take any one out, your salvation is null and void.

a humble request, please stop typing in caps…and underline…and italics…makes you seem angry…lol…
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TESSfromCALVARY:
ARE THEY A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE, AFTER ONE IS SAVED BY FAITH?

Are what a matter of obedience??? Also, as stated throughout this thread, a gentle reminder that we are saved by Grace (God’s free Gift). Thanks and God Bless

ARE THE SACRAMENTS A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE AFTER FAITH? YES, I HEAR SAVED BY GRACE, BUT IT’S USUALLY FOLLOWED BY SOMETHING ELSE.
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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DustinsDad:
To obtain salvation we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.
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SOUNDS GOOD TO ME! BUT,WHY DO OTHER CATHOLICS ADD STUFF?
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I’m not sure what other stuff you are talking about…if it’s the Sacraments and other “catholic” things, it’s because that other “stuff” is all part of the believing, hoping, an loving God with all our hearts.

Do you have a specific item (no shotgunning please, let’s take 'em one or two at a time).

-Peace in Christ-

DustinsDad
 
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TheGarg:
But you are not saved by Faith, you are Saved by Grace, one cannot be saved by Faith alone.

Yes, you’re right. Scripture says we’re saved by grace through faith.

a humble request, please stop typing in caps…and underline…and italics…makes you seem angry…lol…

I don’t follow protocol – didn’t mean to overpower. I just like to quickly distinguish one writer from another. Thought it made reading easier. How’s this?
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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TESSfromCALVARY:
ARE THEY A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE, AFTER ONE IS SAVED BY FAITH?
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Are what a matter of obedience??? Also, as stated throughout this thread, a gentle reminder that we are saved by Grace (God’s free Gift). Thanks and God Bless

ARE THE SACRAMENTS A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE AFTER FAITH? YES, I HEAR SAVED BY GRACE, BUT IT’S USUALLY FOLLOWED BY SOMETHING ELSE.

True, Grace is usually followed by something else. This may be a little abstract but Grace is the First Cause of Faith or from where Faith emminates from. Grace comes before Faith or works. Once Saved, Always Saved is not true unless one has died and is in Heaven. Christ meritted our Redemption, but we must cooperate with God’s Grace for Salvation. In a sense, the Sacraments are God’s chosen instruments to impart Grace on the Church. So out of Obedience to Loving the Father completely as best we can, we participate in the Sacraments and Worship God alone. Thanks and God Bless.
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TESSfromCALVARY said:
THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. ARE THEY A MATTER OF OBEDIENCE, AFTER ONE IS SAVED BY FAITH?
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Do you believe one can be disobediant to God after being saved and still be saved?

Remember, the Bible describes salvation in all three tenses - past (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), present (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and future (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Sounds like you’re leaving out the last two.

And with disobediance, one can throw away that free gift of Salvation:
See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off. (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

Peace,

DustinsDad
 
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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TheGarg:
But you are not saved by Faith, you are Saved by Grace, one cannot be saved by Faith alone.
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TESSfromCALVARY:
Yes, you’re right. Scripture says we’re saved by grace through faith.
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TheGarg:
a humble request, please stop typing in caps…and underline…and italics…makes you seem angry…lol…
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TESSfromCALVARY:
I don’t follow protocol – didn’t mean to overpower. I just like to quickly distinguish one writer from another. Thought it made reading easier. How’s this?
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Thank you and god Bless, much better…nice font too 😃

now here is an idea though. Salvation is an equation that is made up of 3 parts…

Grace[given to us by Christ by his Sacraments and his Dying on the cross] +
Faith The choice to accept that Grace] +

Works[To follow the example and teachings of Jesus in serving Him and our neighbor]
= Salvation

If you take away any part of the equations, your salvation is void…since for salvation we have to Choose Grace, which is Faith. Then Christ specifically tells us…

“Faith without Works is DEAD” --Jesus Christ

Do you agree with this idea, and if not, then please explain.
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TheGarg:
Grace does the saving…our Faith is the choice to accept that Grace…

Exactly. Scripture says we are saved by grace through faith. Eph 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God…”

Jesus also calls us to do works, for with out them Faith is dead…

Yes, because without works you are demonstrating that you really didn’t believe to begin with.

[Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation] all are a requirment in the formula of salvation…if you take any one out, your salvation is null and void.

I think belief + action = faith. What type of action is where we differ, I think. The thief (sinner) on the cross next to Jesus believed Jesus was who He claimed to be (belief), and he didn’t keep silent about it to the other thief (action). But, his action was not an RCC-type sacrament.
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TheGarg:
Salvation is an equation that is made up of 3 parts…

Grace [given to us by Christ by his Sacraments and his Dying on the cross]

I think the number of times I hear/read “and” with the RCC is bothersome. For example, the bible and tradition; jesus and the sacraments.
  • Faith [The choice to accept that Grace]
  • Works [To follow the example and teachings of Jesus in serving Him and our neighbor]
We cannot to good works without God in us, and God is only in His children (those saved).
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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TheGarg:
Salvation is an equation that is made up of 3 parts…

Grace [given to us by Christ by his Sacraments and his Dying on the cross]

I think the number of times I hear/read “and” with the RCC is bothersome. For example, the bible and tradition; jesus and the sacraments.
  • Faith [The choice to accept that Grace]
  • Works [To follow the example and teachings of Jesus in serving Him and our neighbor]
We cannot to good works without God in us, and God is only in His children (those saved).
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Why is the “and” bothersome??? Are you saying it should be “either/or” not “both/and”??? Thanks and God Bless.
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TESSfromCALVARY:
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TheGarg:
Salvation is an equation that is made up of 3 parts…

Grace [given to us by Christ by his Sacraments and his Dying on the cross]

I think the number of times I hear/read “and” with the RCC is bothersome. For example, the bible and tradition; jesus and the sacraments.
  • Faith [The choice to accept that Grace]
  • Works [To follow the example and teachings of Jesus in serving Him and our neighbor]
We cannot to good works without God in us, and God is only in His children (those saved).
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okay, now how about answering my question…do you deny that it takes all three for salvation…if you do not explain how that could be possible…

Grace + Faith + Works = Salvation…

agree or disagree

IF disargree, then explain…thanks
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