Salvation

[DLC]

Can a person know for sure that when he dies that he be in heaven with God?

What do you think? Have an opinion on the matter?

 

[john_ennis]

He can be absolutely confident that Christ’s sacrifice provides more than enough grace for his salvation.

At the same time, he must never be so presumptive as to deny the Gospels, in believing that he is incapable of denying Christ, by his own free will… that he can’t, even while believing that Christ is Lord, choose to follow a selfish path.

Hence the word “hope” in Scripture.

Peace.
John

 

[john_ennis]

'Course, it’s entirely possible for God to reveal specifically what he wants to.
The good thief could certainly say for sure, since Christ said it plainly.

Peace.
John

 

[grandfather]

Can a person know for sure that when he dies that he be in heaven with God?

What do you think? Have an opinion on the matter?

A person can know in any given moment the state of the soul. We can not know wat we will do tomorrow to change it. If we are in the state of grace we must persevere in it.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

No, you can’t be certain - because scripture calls for faith. And faith needs uncertainty.

I mean, if you were absolutely certain about something, then where is the room for faith?

 

[grandfather]

No, you can’t be certain - because scripture calls for faith. And faith needs uncertainty.

I mean, if you were absolutely certain about something, then where is the room for faith?

Faith is knowledge we obtain by believing what we are told about a thing. If you ask directions from a mailman on how to find a street and he tells you and you believe him then you know how to get where you want to go. This is not religious faith, but it is faith. You put faith in what you are told and act on it and get to your destination for lunch or a meeting. Religious faith is believing things about existence we can not figure out, but the knowledg of it is revealed by God. If you beleive it and it is true you know it. You bet your eternal life on it. You place full and absolute trust in it. Faith does not need uncertainty. Faith needs our assent or adceptance.

 

[thistle]

Can a person know for sure that when he dies that he be in heaven with God?

What do you think? Have an opinion on the matter?

Only God knows. However, a Catholic can be morally confident that they will be saved if they die in a state of grace.

 

[DLC]

A person can know in any given moment the state of the soul. We can not know wat we will do tomorrow to change it. If we are in the state of grace we must persevere in it.

No this is not true. If we have accepted God’s free gift of eternal life by faith alone in Christ, we are then anforever given eternal life. Salvation is not a continuing experience but one time once for all even. John 3:15-19 36; 5:24; Eph 2:5; 1 John 5:11-15

 

[DLC]

Only God knows. However, a Catholic can be morally confident that they will be saved if they die in a state of grace.

How moral does one have to be before God will justify a person? What if your friend is more moral that you are? Whose morality standard will God accept?

 

[thistle]

How moral does one have to be before God will justify a person? What if your friend is more moral that you are? Whose morality standard will God accept?

I think you are missing the point I’m making. The Catholic Church is the only true church. It was established by Christ himself on Peter. He gave authority to Peter and the Apostles to forgive or not forgive, to bind and loose. If a Catholic dies in a state of grace, i.e. not in a state of mortal sin, then he/she is definitely saved. What we cannot be absolutely sure of is if we are in a state of grace. Therefore it is essential that we try to follow the teachings of the Church, given to the Apostles by Christ and handed down, and if we fall then go to Confession as soon as possible for nobody knows when they will die so we must be ready always. Non-Catholics have no assurance of salvation.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Bump

The Catholic Church is the only true church.

**Do you mean “The Catholic Church is the only true church” or The Roman Catholic Church is the only true church. **

If you say RCC then my reply is you are entitles to your beliefs.

My question is what kind of church is God looking for?

It was established by Christ himself on Peter.

On Peter or on a Rock, certainly you are not believing a fallible human Peter or any human can be as solid as a rock, are you??

He gave authority to Peter and the Apostles to forgive or not forgive, to bind and loose.

I thought Peter and the Apostles now the priests to the pope only can hear confession and are limited to forgive sins, in their own heart, against themself or the church body they represent , it is **only **God through the blood of Jesus who completely forgives the sins of all men, correct?

If a Catholic dies in a state of grace, i.e. not in a state of mortal sin, then he/she is definitely saved.

if no mortal sin, then you are heaven bound, praise God

What is mortal sin by the way? not mentioned in the bible

What we cannot be absolutely sure of is if we are in a state of grace.

Why not? If you were to fall to the temptation of Satan and sin, why not look to heaven and sincerely repent and confess your sin to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Isn’t that why He dies on the cross for to save us sinners from eternal hell??

Therefore it is essential that we try to follow the teachings of the Church, given to the Apostles by Christ and handed down, and if we fall then go to Confession as soon as possible for nobody knows when they will die so we must be ready always.

absolutely right nobody knows when death will arrive.
And please believe me… I am not trying to be sarcastic when I say the following but I am very sincere.
when you said that you

“follow the teachings of the Church, given to the Apostles by Christ and handed down, and if we fall then go to Confession as soon as possible”

Non-Catholics have no assurance of salvation

Hmm?? I beg to differ for the reason I mentioned below

You illustrated why RC’s do not believe they have assurance of salvation.

If a Catholic dies in a state of grace, i.e. not in a state of mortal sin

, then he/she is definitely saved.

I believe with a sincere prayer of confession and repentance God forgives all sins as promised in Romans 6:23

If you do not believe that then, not that the following would ever happen, let me ask you…

You arrive at church to go to confession, and you are surprised that there is no one waiting at the confessional, As you are walking to the confessional, the man sitting in the pew turns to greet you and says “hi, peace be with you”, you turn and meet his eyes and the man is Jesus.

Here is the question, after dropping to your knees at Jesus’ presence and whatever emotions take over, you still have yet to confess your sin…

Do you confess your sin

to Jesus

or

The priest in the confessional?

I would hope your answer is Jesus. which illustrates my point.

Jesus is your High Priest. He can forgive sins of the faithful in person or in spirit… anywhere, anytime. Jesus and God are always only a prayer away .

God bless,

truth

 

[Alexius]

Bump

Hmm?? I beg to differ for the reason I mentioned below

You illustrated why RC’s do not believe they have assurance of salvation.

I believe with a sincere prayer of confession and repentance God forgives all sins as promised in Romans 6:23

If you do not believe that then, not that the following would ever happen, let me ask you…

You arrive at church to go to confession, and you are surprised that there is no one waiting at the confessional, As you are walking to the confessional, the man sitting in the pew turns to greet you and says “hi, peace be with you”, you turn and meet his eyes and the man is Jesus.

Here is the question, after dropping to your knees at Jesus’ presence and whatever emotions take over, you still have yet to confess your sin…

Do you confess your sin

to Jesus

or

The priest in the confessional?

I would hope your answer is Jesus. which illustrates my point.

Jesus is your High Priest. He can forgive sins of the faithful in person or in spirit… anywhere, anytime. Jesus and God are always only a prayer away .

God bless,

truth

You are correct. Christ is always a prayer away!

Christ; however, gave the power to forgive sins to the Apostles. You see, Christ uses men to do His work. He does not need us in the sense that he is reliant on us, but he does still use us. Just as GOD uses physical objects to convey His Grace, i.e. the Sacraments, He also uses individuals to do His will.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Valke2]

Can a person know for sure that when he dies that he be in heaven with God?

What do you think? Have an opinion on the matter?

A person can have faith that he will be with God. But they can’t know. A person can’t even know if they will wake up tomorrow.

 

[whatisthetruth]

A person can have faith that he will be with God. But they can’t know. for sure

Valke2, does the RC church teach that?That a person can not have assurance they will be in heaven, even if they have expressed to God all their life their faithfulness to Him by not wanting to sin and repenting and confessing when they do.

Am I accurate on the teachings of the RC church as I just stated? Please correct me if I am wrong.

A person can’t even know if they will wake up tomorrow.

Absolutely agree, death may happen within the next hour.

Alexius…
Christ; however, gave the power to forgive sins to the Apostles.

Power to forgive sins to what extent?
A point I brought up in my last post and was not answered fully. Here it is again…

I believe Peter and the Apostles, now the priests to the pope only have the power to hear confession and are limited to only being able to forgive sins in their own heart, against themself by another person or against the church body they represent.
**It is *only God through the blood of Jesus ***who ***completely forgives ***the sins of all men, correct?

Also, you did not answer my question as to what you would do in the scenario I braught up,

You arrive at church to go to confession, and you are surprised that there is no one waiting at the confessional, As you are walking to the confessional, the man sitting in the pew turns to greet you and says “hi, peace be with you”, you turn and meet his eyes to return the greeting and He is Jesus.

Here is the question, after dropping to your knees at Jesus’ presence and whatever emotions take over, you realize that you still have not confessed your sins as you were going to do before being greeted by Jesus. To confess your sins, do you

**confess to the priest in the confessional as originally intended?

or

confess to Jesus?**

You see, Christ uses men to do His work. He does not need us in the sense that he is reliant on us, but he does still use us. He also uses individuals to do His will

I absolutely agree, As Christians, I believe every one of us have an important role in honoring God in the way of His will to bring glory to Him by being a witness of Him so that through us, He will reveal His truth to the lost world and unite His church as one once again.

GOD uses physical objects to convey His Grace, i.e. the Sacraments,

I can relate to the sacrements, I used to be a RC.
God can use many physical objects to convey His Grace.

i.e. giving something small like a cup of coffee to a homeless person on a cold day, God can use that gift of coffee to reveal His grace to the heart of the homeless person in a huge way.

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

Valke2 and Alexius I believe every word of what I just said and I am about to say. And if after I die I find out I was wrong, then I will live eternity in the fires of hell.

I believe that will not be an issue. I trust God and his word as I am about to illustrate

Just imagine if you will, **being a faithful Christian to God **and having blind faith and placing your trust in God and His word
that says

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

That, when you do sin, you can sincerely repent and confess to him in prayer wherever you are and He will forgive you. Isn’t that **His gift to us as I just quoted?
If not, what else do you believe God is saying to you in Romans 6:23? **

And you know right there God has set you free from your sin and here is the best part as God gave us a promise in the bible not once but three times …

Isaiah 43:25
"I, even** I**, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more.

and again

Jeremiah 31:34
No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

and again

Hebrews 8:12
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

What do you believe God is saying to you?

The following verse

Galatians 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

lets one know to believe and trust the God and the gospel (good news) of His word. Which I believe when it comes to salvation, there is only one way and that is…

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way

, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

from Paul’s testimony IS there any doubt?..

1 Timothy 1:
12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man

, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief. 14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance:** Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst**. 16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Saul also gave his testimony in Acts 22,

6 “About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7 I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ 8” ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. " ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied.

Then after Jesus gave Saul’s sight back in Damascus, He said to Saul,

14… 'The God of our fathers has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name

.’

Doesn’t Paul’s testimony give us sinners faith in God’s word. God saved Paul, once was known as Saul, even though he persecuted Christians and called hemself the worst of sinners.

We serve an awesome God, don’t we??

After reading Paul’s testimony in 1 Timothy, how is is possible for the faithful NOT to trust God in His word.

As Saul was saved so can we.

A final thought,

If you were to set aside the teachings of the RC church (Council of Trent and Chatecism) which were established by man, and talk and pray to God one on one and ask God the following…

God, by sending Jesus, who lived a sinless life and would endure all that He did (the persecution, the torture, beating, bloodshed, being nailed to a cross, and eventual death), to the world,
is your message of salvation you are offering me,

a message of hope I make it to heaven?

or

a promise of assurance of salvation should I remain faithful to you?

or

Is there another reason?

How did God answer you?

May we all agree on the truth of Jesus

Jesus Painting

God bless,

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi all

I like to introduce a twist to DLC’s opening question which I believe will answer the title of this thread

I believe we all can agree that everyone on the face of this earth when they die will live for eternity in hell of heaven, right??

there is no other choice

Consider this,

Can one believe that, if they were to die right now, can know for sure that they will go to hell for eternity?

If you said yes then the following statement is true…

If one believes that they can know for sure that they are going to hell then, at the same time, they also believe they are not going to heaven.

Having said that, I will let you know what I believe and I do not believe.

Then based on your beliefs and in the way I am about to describe myself, if I were to die right now believing in the way I do (expressed below),

**does anyone believe that I am destined for eternity in hell if I do not make a change in my beliefs?

If you believe I am destined for hell, please tell me how I can escape the fires of hell.**

Thank you

truth

Here is what I believe in and not believe…

I do not believe…

in the presence of Jesus (Holy Eucharist) at communion
in confessing my sins to a priest, bishop etc…
that a priest can forgive sins any more than I can
in purgatory
the need to bless myself with “holy water” before and/or after RC mass
in praying the rosary, or reciting prayers in repetition
I have to observe all the RC holy days of obligation
I have to fast on the days RC doctrine says I have to
I have to abstain from meat on fridays during lent
Mary lived without sinning
Mary stayed a virgin all her life
in infant baptism

I do believe

In Jesus’ one united church, not the way of the RC teaching but of God’s will (one of many differences of interpretation Jesus’ words in the bible to His desciples)
communion is a symbolic remembrance and appreciation of what Jesus did for all of us, for Jesus said “do this in remembrance of me”
making a sincere confession and repentance of my sins directly to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ to be forgiven of my sin/s
that a priest can not completely forgive/absolve me of sin/s
believe only in heaven or hell, purgatory does not exist
God blesses us in his timing not ours, we can pray for blessing without the need of “holy water”
in talking/praying to God without reciting written prayers which have been said over the centuries
in God’s commandment…“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy” throughout the whole year.
I have free will on when to fast and pray
I do not have to abstain from meat on the days RC doctrine says I have to
Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us humans
Mary stayed a virgin only till **after ** Jesus was born.
Jesus did have siblings
baptism by immersion only, one has to repent and then be baptized (which of course a baby can not do)

most important belief about Jesus

That there was a time God, instead of having sinful man sacrifice an innocent animal (lamb) for atonement of their sins, sent a saviour, (the Lamb of God/His begotten Son Jesus) to this world as a baby, born of a virgin. Jesus was to live a sinless life and then when He was in His early 30’s the core of Christianity became horribly real.

Not everyone who heard about and/or saw Jesus believed that there he was and still is the Messiah our Lord and Saviour.

The unbelievers persecuted, tortured, insulted, flogged, bloodied and eventually crucified our Lord Jesus.

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6

In His dying breath, Jesus thought about each and every one of us when He said,

Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”

Then Jesus died, was buried, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, which he knew about when he said he following…

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

God told us way to heaven when He said,

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead,** thou shalt be saved.** Rom 10:9

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life." 1John 5:13

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:8-9

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that **whosoever believeth in him **should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

 

[DLC]

I think you are missing the point I’m making. The Catholic Church is the only true church. It was established by Christ himself on Peter. He gave authority to Peter and the Apostles to forgive or not forgive, to bind and loose. If a Catholic dies in a state of grace, i.e. not in a state of mortal sin, then he/she is definitely saved. What we cannot be absolutely sure of is if we are in a state of grace. Therefore it is essential that we try to follow the teachings of the Church, given to the Apostles by Christ and handed down, and if we fall then go to Confession as soon as possible for nobody knows when they will die so we must be ready always. Non-Catholics have no assurance of salvation.

I think you miss the point that I was trying to make. If a person must be moral, as you said, before God will let him into heaven, how moral must a person be before God will let him in? It is a simple question to ask and answer?

 

[ricko]

Dear Whatisthetruth, look at your bible again as Mortal sin is in the bible.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Dear Whatisthetruth, look at your bible again as Mortal sin is in the bible.

Where in the bible does it say Mortal sin is “_______________”

and

venial sin is “______________________”

please tell me ricko, thank you.

btw ricko,

based on your beliefs and the info I provided about myself in the previous post,

do you believe that I am destined for eternity in hell if I do not make a change in my beliefs?

If you believe I am destined for hell, please tell me how I can escape the fires of hell.

Thank you

 

[DLC]

A reply refering to the “hell of heaven” is very Mormon and not Bible. There are only two places one will go after they die. Heaven, to be with God, or hell, separation from God in the Lake of Fire.

Mormonism teaches a universal salvation. Everyone will be in one of three heavens. The lowest heaven is for those who are very bad, but it is still heaven. Then there might be a fourth place called outer darkness which is where Satan or Hitler will go.

But for a Mormon to be with God in heaven they must put into practice a litney of things which they must perform. The Bible teaches that we are saved by faith alone alone Christ. If one believes he is saved. if one does not believe he is judged. John 3:15-19.