Samael and Camael

  • Thread starter Thread starter MACADAMIANUTS
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MACADAMIANUTS

Guest
Hello. I was recently reading about angels and about the known nine choirs. “Powers” have a chief who is said to be Samael or Camael. Where does this information come from? Why these angels named? Where is that information coming from? I thought giving name to angels was frowned upon long ago. Any insight is appreciated.
 
I don’t know where some of this stuff comes from either. 🤷 To my knowledge there are only 3 angels mentioned in scripture (Judeo-Christian) and they are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. Any others are from other “off the wall” sources.
 
I don’t know where some of this stuff comes from either. 🤷 To my knowledge there are only 3 angels mentioned in scripture (Judeo-Christian) and they are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. Any others are from other “off the wall” sources.
Most of it comes from Aquinas. He wrote quite a bit on the nature of angels.

As for the names, they mostly come from tradition, apocryphal texts, etc. Not from cannonized scripture, but not necessarily “off the wall” either.
 
I don’t know where some of this stuff comes from either. 🤷 To my knowledge there are only 3 angels mentioned in scripture (Judeo-Christian) and they are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. Any others are from other “off the wall” sources.
I have never heard of any of these “levels” of angel-dom either. I have heard of the cherubim and seraphim and of course the 3 angels mentioned by name in the earlier post. I think most of this stuff is along the line of people believing that every guardian angel has a name and if we just allow ourself to ponder on it, we’ll realize our own guardian angel’s name. I think it’s a nice story another words, but total hogwash!
 
“Samael” I believe was referred to as “God of the blind” in Gnostic belief.
 
I have never heard of any of these “levels” of angel-dom either. I have heard of the cherubim and seraphim and of course the 3 angels mentioned by name in the earlier post. I think most of this stuff is along the line of people believing that every guardian angel has a name and if we just allow ourself to ponder on it, we’ll realize our own guardian angel’s name. I think it’s a nice story another words, but total hogwash!
The names of the nine choirs of angels are actually taken from scripture. Different ideas on how their heirarchy is formed have been presented over time. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the names come from apocryphal texts. I won’t quote the whole section, as it wouldn’t fit, but here’s a snippet from the Catholic encyclopedia at newadvent.org.
St. Thomas (Summa Theologica I:108), following St. Denis (De Coelesti Hierarchia, vi, vii), divides the angels into three hierarchies each of which contains three orders. Their proximity to the Supreme Being serves as the basis of this division. In the first hierarchy he places the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones; in the second, the Dominations, Virtues, and Powers; in the third, the Principalities, Archangels, and Angels. The only Scriptural names furnished of individual angels are Raphael, Michael, and Gabriel, names which signify their respective attributes. Apocryphal Jewish books, such as the Book of Enoch, supply those of Uriel and Jeremiel, while many are found in other apocryphal sources, like those Milton names in “Paradise Lost”.
 
I don’t know where some of this stuff comes from either. 🤷 To my knowledge there are only 3 angels mentioned in scripture (Judeo-Christian) and they are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. Any others are from other “off the wall” sources.
‘Any others are from other “off the wall” sources.’

I realize that this is the Traditional [Latin] Catholicism section but I want to note that names of the other four archangels (Uriel, Salaphiel, Jegudiel, and Barachiel) are accepted by the Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches. They are not from “off the wall” sources but from the “little t” tradition of the Byzantine Eastern Churches. Any other names besides these are certainly from “off the wall” sources such as those mentioned by the OP. 🙂

Peace,
Zekariya
 
Hello. I was recently reading about angels and about the known nine choirs. “Powers” have a chief who is said to be Samael or Camael. Where does this information come from? Why these angels named? Where is that information coming from? I thought giving name to angels was frowned upon long ago. Any insight is appreciated.
This is what it says in the description for the Chaplet of St. Michael
The Chaplet of St. Michael is a wonderful way to honor this great Archangel along with the other nine Choirs of Angels. What do we mean by Choirs? It seems that God has created various orders of Angels. Sacred Scripture distinguishes nine such groupings: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominations, Powers, Virtues, Principalities, Archangels and Angels (Isa. 6:2; Gen. 3:24; Col. 1:16; Eph. 1:21; Rom. 8:38). There may be more groupings but these are the only ones that have been revealed to us. The Seraphim is believed to be the highest Choir, the most intimately united to God, while the Angelic Choir is the lowest.
Isa 6:2 = Seraphim
Gen 3:24 = Cherubim
Col 1:16 = Thrones, Dominions, Powers
Eph 1:21 = Powers, Dominions, ?
Rom 8:38 = Angels

On Archangels, there are lots of references in the Bible to them. Jude 1:9 is one of them.

So I am not sure how the other two Choirs (Virtues, Principalities) come from but I guess it may be somewhere in Scripture too.

EDIT: Oops, I just realized you might have asked about the actual names.

There are only three named Archangels in Roman Catholicism.

St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, considered to be 3 of the 7 Archangels.

It should be noted that the Church does prohibit naming ones Guardian Angel or things like that.
 
The names of the nine choirs of angels are actually taken from scripture. Different ideas on how their heirarchy is formed have been presented over time. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the names come from apocryphal texts. I won’t quote the whole section, as it wouldn’t fit, but here’s a snippet from the Catholic encyclopedia at newadvent.org.
Hmmm… It’s interesting–and I appreciate the fact that it was the idea that a saint thought up while he was on earth. I’m just not sure that I buy that any of us know God’s precise set up in heaven–or if He even needs a precise set up–like an army on earth with privates, generals etc. And I’m always a little bit leery of apocryphal texts–trying to read reality into symbolism and so on. It is an interesting idea though–I’ll give it that!👍
 
“off the wall” sources.
How can that be? I see two major problems with “off the wall.” One being the church frowns upon the naming of angels. This implies to me that some random person or source isn’t where the names could have came from. If it were, the church would discredit them due to the doctrine I just mentioned. In my eyes, It must be from some approved dogmatic source. Dogma alone in itself is the other reason. “What you hold true on earth. I’ll hold true in heaven.” Knowing that, did God create and name these angels long ago with knowledge that some random person would just “name them the same into acceptence?” I doubt it.
 
“off the wall” sources.
How can that be? I see two major problems with “off the wall.” One being the church frowns upon the naming of angels. This implies to me that some random person or source isn’t where the names could have came from. If it were, the church would discredit them due to the doctrine I just mentioned. In my eyes, It must be from some approved dogmatic source. Dogma alone in itself is the other reason. “What you hold true on earth. I’ll hold true in heaven.” Knowing that, did God create and name these angels long ago with knowledge that some random person would just “name them the same into acceptence?” I doubt it.
 
a lot of the names come from apocryphal texts.
Are we even allowed to believe say The Book of Enoch? I thought that story contains a lot of things that are contradicting to our beliefs. Have any of these texts been labled “worthy of belief” by the church?
 
Are we even allowed to believe say The Book of Enoch? I thought that story contains a lot of things that are contradicting to our beliefs. Have any of these texts been labled “worthy of belief” by the church?
I never said anything about accepting or agreeing with these texts. I was merely pointing out that these names weren’t just conjured out of thin air within the last few hundred years, but have been around since even before the time of Christ in some cases.

While we don’t look at apocryphal texts as accurate sources for faith, we can look at them from an academic, historical view. We can better understand a people when we are able to read the popular texts that they were reading in their time. So, while not “worthy of belief” they could still be “worthy of reading.”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top