Samaritan Torah

[GerardMajella]

You interprete it in line with your tradition if you wish, I’m not going to debate it. My original question, however, remains unanswered.

If you do obtain a copy of the Samaritan Torah, feel free to share your findings.

I don’t particularly care to debate your misinterpretations further either, especially after I have given you more than an adequate explanation of the text with supporting documentation from multiple commentaries, both Christian and Jewish.

I thought God did not have a physical body. Without a physical body how does this shawl thing make sense?

Well, that’s the classic interpretation from a Jewish perspective – That God is incorporeal.

However, how do we explain Exodus 33:20-23? How do we explain the many human-like descriptions of God throughout the Old Testament? Answer: Allegory – a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms.

In the Jewish Siddur (prayer book), we see on the Friday evening Sabbath reading of the Song of Songs, part 2:

“…With memories of His loving support in the desert, of His left hand under my head, of His right hand enveloping me.”

We see the Jewish Sages explain this passage, too, as an allegory.

From a Catholic or Christian perspective, they might say that Exodus 33:20-23 is a precursor to Jesus Christ.

 

[Nine_Two]

I thought God did not have a physical body. Without a physical body how does this shawl thing make sense?

Within the traditional Orthodox interpretation, the Angel of the Lord (the second person of the trinity in the OT) physically came down beside him while Moses saw the the energy of God though not his essence (his face).

In all honesty I’m not really sure what he saw, simply a light, or even just a feeling, who knows? It never goes into much detail.

 

[Nine_Two]

If you do obtain a copy of the Samaritan Torah, feel free to share your findings.

I don’t particularly care to debate your misinterpretations further either, especially after I have given you more than an adequate explanation of the text with supporting documentation from multiple commentaries, both Christian and Jewish.

Commentaries on the MT, which had nothing to do with what I was asking. If you’re going to get upset that what you’re saying isn’t being accepted as the true and proper answer, at least have the common courtesy to actually be answering the question. What the MT says was never being debated.

 

[GerardMajella]

Commentaries on the MT, which had nothing to do with what I was asking. If you’re going to get upset that what you’re saying isn’t being accepted as the true and proper answer, at least have the common courtesy to actually be answering the question. What the MT says was never being debated.

You said that the LXX implied “a non-unitarian view” and “multiple entities”. That’s a pretty bold claim to make without providing substantiating information. If it’s simply your “opinion”, then say so.

Regardless of which text - the Masoretic or the LXX (I’ve dissected both in this thread, by the way) - throughout the Old Testament, God speaks to Moses without a third entity involved. In fact, the LXX passage you quote, in terms of content, is practically identical to the MT.

You have yet to show any definitive explanation, proof, or commentary supporting your claim of multiple entities in this passage, or in any other passage involving Moses and God on Mt. Sinai throughout the Old Testament.

I asked you, “Where do you see multiple entities?” You did not answer. I have provided multiple commentaries for this particular passage - Christian and Jewish - refuting your claim. Until you provide supporting information to back your assertion, it’s just that - an assertion with no proof or explanation whatsoever.

And, you are right. There is no point in arguing. It just should be noted, however, that you have not provided proof to back your claim, whereas I have given you ample proof from multiple sources explaining the passage to the contrary.

 

[1234]

You interprete it in line with your tradition if you wish, I’m not going to debate it. My original question, however, remains unanswered.

Nine, you’re in the wrong forum.

Surely, there must be scholarly Jewish forums (actually fora) which can answer your question.

 

[Nine_Two]

Regardless of which text - the Masoretic or the LXX (I’ve dissected both in this thread, by the way) - throughout the Old Testament, God speaks to Moses without a third entity involved. In fact, the LXX passage you quote, in terms of content, is practically identical to the MT.

Yep, the LXX is practically identical to the MT. Interesting that you deniy there is an implication of a third entity, something I never claimed.

 

[Nine_Two]

Nine, you’re in the wrong forum.

Surely, there must be scholarly Jewish forums (actually fora) which can answer your question.

Or a scholarly Samaritan forum.

 

[GerardMajella]

Interesting that you deny there is an implication of a third entity, something I never claimed.

Let me refresh your memory. You stated the following:

And I’ve repeated over and over, it is the LXX, which implies multiple entities.

God, Moses, and who is the the third entity in this passage? You tell me.

I’m not denying anything. I am asking you to support your assertion with any credible shred of proof, documentation, commentary, etc. Obviously, you have none, otherwise you would have provided a legitimate response earlier. All we have is your “opinion”, which might better be stated as a gross misinterpretation of Holy Writ.

The purpose of a discussion forum is to “discuss”. This means that when you make a claim, you should be prepared to discuss it with other readers, and provide credible evidence and explanation.

 

[Nine_Two]

For someone who says they aren’t going to argue this you’re really arguing.

I’ve explained it already, if you don’t see it, fine, my repeating it is not going to help you suddenly reach an epiphany.

 

[GerardMajella]

I’ve explained it already, if you don’t see it, fine, my repeating it is not going to help you suddenly reach an epiphany.

Your explanation was refuted, from multiple sources, and you failed to respond. If you honestly believe that there are multiple “entities” talking to Moses, then I guess you are entitled to that “opinion”, but the text doesn’t indicate this at all, regardless of which text you are using.

For someone who says they aren’t going to argue this you’re really arguing.

Well, I really don’t appreciate you starting a thread claiming that there are “multiple entities” portraying God within the Old Testament. It’s nothing short of blasphemous.

 

[Nine_Two]

Your explanation was refuted, from multiple sources, and you failed to respond. If you honestly believe that there are multiple “entities” talking to Moses, then I guess you are entitled to that “opinion”, but the text doesn’t indicate this at all, regardless of which text you are using.

Commentaries by Protestants and Jews on the MT have nothing to do with the LXX or the teachings of my own church.

Well, I really don’t appreciate you starting a thread claiming that there are “multiple entities” portraying God within the Old Testament. It’s nothing short of blasphemous.

The teachings of Christ, and Christian beliefs in general are considered blasphemous by Jews, this is nothing new. If you have an issue with that then you’d be better off not being on a Christian forum.

 

[GerardMajella]

Commentaries by Protestants and Jews on the MT have nothing to do with the LXX or the teachings of my own church.

These were two simple examples from exceptionally diverse viewpoints. Even the thoroughly Catholic Douay-Rheims Haydock Bible commentary refutes your claim.

Unless you can provide “teachings from your own church” to support your claim, you will be hard pressed to convince anyone on this thread of your credibility as an interpreter of Holy Writ.

The teachings of Christ, and Christian beliefs in general are considered blasphemous by Jews, this is nothing new. If you have an issue with that then you’d be better off not being on a Christian forum.

The Catholic Church does not proclaim multiple deities, nor does it proclaim “multiple entities” speaking to Moses on Mt. Sinai.

If you can point me to any Catholic document that supports your claim for this specific passage in terms of “multiple entities” as it relates to Moses and God on Mt. Sinai in this particular section of Exodus, I am more than open to hearing from another point of view.

Unfortunately, we don’t see any indication that Christ Himself nor the Holy Spirit being involved in this conversation between Moses and God. I think you’ll be hard pressed to find any theologian to side with you.

You made the claim. It’s up to you to prove it to be true.